Manage competitors at 75%?

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jez
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Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by jez »

Out of interest, why was the ttdpatch-style "manage competitors at 75% of shares" never implemented in OpenTTD? I know you can use a cheat to switch to another company but it's, well, a cheat. I think it should just be a normal game feature.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by Eddi »

game balance. multiplayer abuse... lots of immediate reasons come into my head

i think it was actually part of the subsidiaries patch. but that was too big and had too many issues
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by jfs »

It won't really work in multiplayer. I doubt it would be much fun really.

In singleplayer it depends on having AI players. Then if AI players can have their company temporarily controlled by a human and then get it back, it makes AI development so much harder: The AI can suddenly no longer assume things are left the way it built them, and it may have things it doesn't know what are.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by Baldy's Boss »

Either way,there should be certain things a 75%-owned company is obliged to defer to a 75%-owning company...the control needs to be reflected somehow.
I only compete with AIs but being able to clear or build on their spaces or keep them out of markets should be possible in some cases if you are majority owner!
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by odisseus »

jfs wrote: 30 May 2021 13:57 The AI can suddenly no longer assume things are left the way it built them
Generally, the AI cannot assume that anyway, at least in case when disasters are enabled. Regardless, some AIs make even more unfounded assumptions, such as the possibility of 90 degree turns.
Baldy's Boss wrote: 31 May 2021 01:36 Either way,there should be certain things a 75%-owned company is obliged to defer to a 75%-owning company...the control needs to be reflected somehow.
However, when it comes to granting the owner of 75% shares some degree of control over the company, I don't see the point of this. Such feature will add very little if anything at all to the gameplay.

In multi-player, this would open new possibilities for abuse: for example, a rich player could buy 75% of a smaller company and drain its funds. But, regardless, every multi-player server should disable buying shares anyway, because the "stock fraud" trick allows players to create billions out of thin air.
Baldy's Boss wrote: 31 May 2021 01:36 I only compete with AIs but being able to clear or build on their spaces or keep them out of markets should be possible in some cases if you are majority owner!
In single-player games, you can just use cheats to control AI companies. If you just want to keep the competitor out of a certain town, you can buy exclusive transport rights in that town; there is no need to even buy any shares.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by jez »

Yeah but the exclusive transport rights is extremely expensive and only lasts a year. I find it's not very effective. It'd be much better to manage the opposing company and kill off their route.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by Eddi »

why would you even think you should be able to kill off their routes? why should you be entitled to anything, just because you put up an arbitrary amount of money? you didn't negotiate anything with the previous owners that would make them give up their controlling majority in the first place.

i'd much rather just disable the share system. it's so ill-designed.
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jez
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by jez »

Because, unlike railroad tycoon, TTD doesn't really let you properly compete with other companies. You can spend a ton of money getting exclusive transport rights, you can put a station right next to theirs and offer a better service, but they'll still get *some* stuff to transport and they'll turn enough of a profit to stay alive. You can't really bankrupt another company if they're half-competent. So you have to buy them out (meaning you get all their crappy infrastructure which is highly undesirable) or sabotage them.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by _dp_ »

Just ctrl-alt-c into that company and destroy all you want.
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jez
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by jez »

Goes back to my original point. That's officially cheating. I think it should be a legitimate game mechanic to take control of a company when you own 75% of it.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by Eddi »

going back to my point: getting to 75% in the first place shouldn't be this easy.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by odisseus »

I think the real problem here is the quality of infrastructure built by the AI. They tend to build a lot of tracks, cluttering key areas such as town borders, and it is understandable if the player wants to keep at least some towns free from clutter. However, giving the shareholders control over an AI company does not solve this problem at all.
Last edited by odisseus on 01 Jun 2021 02:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by _dp_ »

jez wrote: 31 May 2021 10:49 Goes back to my original point. That's officially cheating. I think it should be a legitimate game mechanic to take control of a company when you own 75% of it.
And because you don't want to cheat with cheats you want developers to make cheat into not cheat so you can cheat without cheating? :P
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jez
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by jez »

In real life owning a company lets you control it so I don't see why it's cheating. :D

Actually, I wouldn't mind replacing the "takeover" mechanic at 100% ownership with management of the company instead. I basically never want to inherit all their crappy infrastructure anyway.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by audigex »

I mean, at this stage why not just play with AI turned off? It doesn't sound like they're adding anything you really care about, and are getting in your way.

There's nothing wrong with just playing single player if you find the AI are an inconvenience
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by LaChupacabra »

I would go a little further ...;)
50% of owned shares - the player can act in the company on an equal footing with AI (adding the "Join" button to be able to switch between companies in which you have the appropriate number of shares)
75% of owned shares - AI loses the ability to act (it is put to sleep), such a company would be managed only by the player, being in fact his second company.
Such possibilities would, of course, only apply to AI companies and would be a nice variety for offline games. :)

In the case of companies of other players, the sale of shares should be a decision of the company owner (adding the "Sell shares" button and a small window where you can determine how many shares, for how much and to whom the player intends to sell them), while in any case the company selling them should receive payment and the shareholder should receive a portion of the profits.
Currently, the entire mechanism of selling shares looks as if the OTTD game was modeled on the functioning of companies in the conditions of totalitarian or extremely corrupt countries, where the will of the entrepreneur is irrelevant and he is forced to sell shares for which he doesn't receive any money. Totalitary Transport Deluxe :mrgreen:
Eddi wrote: 31 May 2021 12:06 going back to my point: getting to 75% in the first place shouldn't be this easy.
When selling shares of your own company, the only sensible solution is to make it a matter of player choice. It is annoying that someone can buy shares in my company, even though I had no intention of selling them. The amount someone wants to sell their shares for should also be a choice. If someone wants $ 1,000,000 for 1% without having a single vehicle, they should be able to do so ... knowing some of the players, such a purchase could be the real deal. ;) In the case of AI, this should remain simplified in my opinion. Instead of a sell / no sell setting, there could be: "What percentage of shares AI is willing to sell: 0/25/50/75/100"
I am sorry for may English. I know is bed.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by Baldy's Boss »

I have purchased 100% of some AIs which involves putting their costs on my books...but I'd like to have some privileges in limiting them if I own 75%,which makes sense.
I've never played with anyone entitled to buy out my own shares without my offering them for sale,and would not want that.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by odisseus »

The game seems to make an assumption that every company is a public company and that its shares are freely traded on a stock exchange. From this point of view, it makes sense that the majority shareholder should have some control over the company, but this would create a lot of opportunities for abuse in the multi-player game.
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Re: Manage competitors at 75%?

Post by mauried »

Are AI players able to buy out real players?
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