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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:19 am 
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GoneWacko wrote:
Well that sure sucks...

Can't they release the source code or something?

Calm down..

They are peoples with fealings, just as you and me. Think about how you wuld feal in the same situation before you shoot.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:44 am 
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zuu wrote:
GoneWacko wrote:
Well that sure sucks...

Can't they release the source code or something?

Calm down..

They are peoples with fealings, just as you and me. Think about how you wuld feal in the same situation before you shoot.


I don't think I was saying anything wrong?
I said it sucked they stopped, I was looking forward to it, and then I wondered if they could release the source code. :/

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:37 am 
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GoneWacko wrote:
I don't think I was saying anything wrong?


You could have said it with other words, but you're right, it would be useful to have the source code.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:40 am 
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SHADOW-XIII wrote:
to be honest I was expecting something like that ... oh well ... maybe we can all move to OTTD instead :?


Not for all is openttd a option, legal wise as example...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:41 am 
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It should be very usefull indeed, so you can learn how they are doing difficult thing (economy, path finding, etc.) so you could improve your own game and make it better. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:21 am 
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Kids... short attention span. Pity.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:29 am 
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Oh, and we've all seen your attempt at writing a transport game ... :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:54 pm 
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ChrisCF wrote:
Oh, and we've all seen your attempt at writing a transport game ... :roll:


I never claimed to. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:30 pm 
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It's still a crappy remark you made. But he best sailors stand ashore, as a dutch sayong goes.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:33 pm 
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Well, certainly time for a response from our side...

I think the current situation is quite well explained in the news message. As for the possible continuation later I've left you in doubt, which was exactly what I wanted. We ourself are in doubt about continueing or not, but as I've already said we don't plan to do that in the coming time.
Motivation is lost. In the project we've come quite close to this situation before, but we managed to continue.
Now the situation has changed, OpenTTD came out (what we've initially aimed for (before any reaction: I said initially, it wasn't our current aim)), Chris Sawyer announced Locomotion, heck, even Zugspiel made more progress than TTU.

To come back to the point, we won't release any code, firstly because the C++ version is not near being useful for anyone, secondly, we might consider continueing once. As for the C version I say, download OpenTTD (in design it shows incredible similarity).

Now, as a last point I'd like to react to charlieq:
charlieq wrote:
Kids... short attention span. Pity.


Who are you calling kids when you yourself bother to post this kind of comments. We think of ourselfs as adults.
TTU wasn't just a 'hype', our attention span covered over 3/4 year. Which is, as I see it, far over the limit of the situation you see before you.
Our motivation didn't fade away because we're young, it has several sources. First of all think by yourself how you would like making little progress in many months, caused by being busy with a study, and other useful things. Secondly, as mentioned above, lots of alternatives popped up, progressed further, making us not more motivated.
And that's all I want to say about it.

Well, well, I certainly increased the average message length of the forum once again :roll:.

This was our reaction, don't be afraid to ask anything, I'll be around.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:15 pm 
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TBOT wrote:
Who are you calling kids when you yourself bother to post this kind of comments. We think of ourselfs as adults.

My comment was designed to get a reaction. After wasting your time with all your talk, wasting our time by shouting about something people are bound to listen to, and then simply not releasing the code citing 'it's not useful to anybody' is just a crock of s***.

After the amount of hoopla you kids generated, if you don't follow through then you'll find that the next time you stand and shout people will simlpy ignore you. "The boy who cried wolf." Well this is you crying "TTD-like game" over and over again, then produced nothing short of a few screenshots showing very little of somebody elses graphics.


TBOT wrote:
TTU wasn't just a 'hype'

Yes it was. There's nothing to show for it. That's all talk, no walk. Vapourware.


TBOT wrote:
our attention span covered over 3/4 year

Your attention span is the amount of time you spent coding TTU which, on any viewable evidence, is not very much unless you were using the project as an exercise to learn how to program. In which case, you really shouldn't have been seeking attention, but instead working diligently and presenting the results, not the aspirations, to the public.


TBOT wrote:
caused by being busy

We're all busy. We don't all claim to be doing something then not do it.


TBOT wrote:
lots of alternatives popped up, progressed further

Good! I hope you are more prudent about making claims about what you'll be doing with said alternatives.

Dreams are cheap. Respect is earned.

And before you say it, I'm busy earning respect with something else, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if I was creating a TTD-like game I'd have something to show for it before I started generating attention.

I hope you kids learn from this experience. You can be a Darl McBride and spin your way with empty talk until you're rich but tainted (and probably jail bound) or you can be honest with yourselves and those around you and present yourself on backup-able merit.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:35 pm 
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charlieg wrote:
My comment was designed to get a reaction.

There are very little things people do without expecting something in return. Maybe that knowledge is why I'm not shocked.

charlieg wrote:
Your attention span is the amount of time you spent coding TTU which, on any viewable evidence, is not very much unless you were using the project as an exercise to learn how to program. In which case, you really shouldn't have been seeking attention, but instead working diligently and presenting the results, not the aspirations, to the public.

Just because you say so? That's not how the world works.

charlieg wrote:
Dreams are cheap. Respect is earned.

But you have to earn it the right way, otherwise your respect is as shallow as yourself.

chalieg wrote:
And before you say it, I'm busy earning respect with something else, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if I was creating a TTD-like game I'd have something to show for it before I started generating attention.

Checking the link you gave it seems you haven't released anything of Vexi too. But already you have a site and are promoting the stuff:

http://wiki.vexi.org/ wrote:
Vexi is a recent fork of the Ibex project (formerly the XWT project) due to unsolvable differences over project direction. As we are so new (incepted on Monday 19th of April) we are still busy getting organized.

The initial primary goal of Vexi to release a stable product as soon as possible.


charlieg wrote:
I hope you kids learn from this experience. You can be a Darl McBride and spin your way with empty talk until you're rich but tainted (and probably jail bound) or you can be honest with yourselves and those around you and present yourself on backup-able merit.

Learning is an unescapable facet of daily life. You are bound to learn, even when you haven't got the intention. Learning is facilitated by clear-cut and non-rigid examples. Forcing stuff down ones throat 'because you consider it to be the truth' won't work. It will only create resistence. No doubt there is some sense in your words but I suggest you take some classes in being more open-minded, less arrogant and more friendly.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:39 pm 
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Let me just sum it all up in normal English:

You're an egoïstic piece of crap.

Get a life. YOU have NEVER done ANYTHING for the TT fan community, and thus you don't get to say s*** like that about a TT Clone.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:14 pm 
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GoneWacko wrote:
Let me just sum it all up in normal English:
.......

GW, was that really necessary :?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:31 pm 
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well, yes. I was angry, he was the valve through which I could depressurise myself.

and some people in #tycoon agree with me.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:13 am 
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charlieg wrote:
and then simply not releasing the code citing 'it's not useful to anybody' is just a crock of s***.

You cannot say something like that without seeing the code, I _do_ have access to what we've coded and as a well experienced coder (that doesn't imply experience in project work) I say the code is not usefull. You can either respect my thoughts, or go into discussion, of which the latter won't help you very much.
Also, I didn't give the 'not usefullness' as the only reason for not releasing the code, but some ppl tend to keep things out the picture when they aren't in line with their own arguments...

Quote:
then produced nothing short of a few screenshots showing very little of somebody elses graphics.

You have NO idea of what we've produced just because we haven't released it. I agree, to an end user it adds up to the same result: nothing. But only viewing it from that perspective doesn't mean we didn't produce anything...

Quote:
Your attention span is the amount of time you spent coding TTU which, on any viewable evidence, is not very much unless you were using the project as an exercise to learn how to program. In which case, you really shouldn't have been seeking attention, but instead working diligently and presenting the results, not the aspirations, to the public.

If we hadn't presented our progress and plans in the first place TTU wouldn't have come as far as it would be today. We began this project in a vacation, with all the time of the world, and enough motivation. In short periods we were able to create many more than anyone has yet shown (at that time). The public 'pressure' we created by making everything public generated motivation to continue. At first it worked out pretty well, but our studies began generating quite much work, so we had to give in on TTU progress, a process that lasted until last weeks, where we realised that continueing at this stage was quite useless.
We never intended to not do so many things, we hadn't anticipated heavy study workloads. So don't say: 'we claimed to be doing something then not do it', as this was NEVER our intention, NOR will be, you bring it as we just deliberately generated a 'hype', which is absolutely NOT the case. Conditions caused the project to end up something like that, but don't say it like we intended to.
The main issue of the project was not 'learning how to program', believe me, we've done lots of useless programming before. In the progress of the project however we realised object orientation is much more suitable for game programming, and we switched to C++, a learning step which proofed to be quite useful, seeing the capabilities of such.

Quote:
Dreams are cheap. Respect is earned.

Not to mention that all our 'dreams' were technically possible and just required a certain amounth of time (which turned out we just didn't have) to implement it.

Quote:
I hope you kids learn from this experience.

First of all, F*** OFF with your 'kids' stuff, as you don't know anything about us.
And yes, we did learn from the experience. But not in the way you would like the see it I guess. We learned useful lessons in design and programming, all being applicated in programs we currently make.
I stand with my point that sometimes public attention is futile for ensuring motivation, that in this case, for the public, TTU turned out to be not much than publicity is a pity, life doesn't always go the way as you would like to see it, it's a situation we couldn't have possibly anticipated for (don't even argue with this unless you do/did an academic study...), and thus I believe you cannot put the full blame on us or our 'inexperience'. In the future we'll be more carefull announcing something, but we certainly do not rule out any publicity before we made something presentable.

Summing all your points up I come to only one conclusion, and that is that you have an entirely wrong view of the situation (you only look through the end-user perspective, though there's more to see)...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:09 am 
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TBOT wrote:
Summing all your points up I come to only one conclusion, and that is that you have an entirely wrong view of the situation (you only look through the end-user perspective, though there's more to see)...

That comes pretty close to my conclusion of narrowminded :lol: . I'll be checking the Vexi development from now on btw, I'm really curious how soon they come with a release. It's nice for them if they can keep their word (no doubt about it) but if the entire team is made up of narrowminded people I don't see anything released soon :twisted: .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:16 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:11 pm 
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Hyronymus wrote:
I'll be checking the Vexi development from now on btw, I'm really curious how soon they come with a release. It's nice for them if they can keep their word (no doubt about it) but if the entire team is made up of narrowminded people I don't see anything released soon :twisted: .


I'm not narrow minded. :roll:

We do a beta release tomorrow (Friday). Look out for it on Freshmeat. ;)

Sorry TBOT, I was a bit OTT. No arguments to what you just said.

GW: I'm not (yet) egotistical and I didn't say anything about a TT clone. TTU never existed as far as we (end users) are concerned. My comments were directed soley at TBOT & co.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 10:25 pm 
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charlieg, you can stop calling everyone kids, we are all older than 2 months, except for you apparently.

Why do you post here, complaining about nothing, whenyou yourself have done nothing, when you could be off complaining about all the other Transport games no one has released yet.

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