Progress: Another revolution

A TTD clone that was under development. Development has now been stopped.
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TBOT
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Progress: Another revolution

Post by TBOT » 12 Dec 2003 00:10

Another revolution? Yes!
Enthousiastic followers of the project might distinguish the first revolution of TTS, the change from coding it in C to coding it in C++.
For you, it mainly meaned that the release of a techdemo was postponed until further notice.
For us it ment a real revolution, forcing our imperative minds into thinking Object-oriented. Though rewriting big parts of the code was a pain in the ass, it also made more things possible. Dynamically controlling the gamedata is just one of them.


This week set the tide for another revolution in the development of TTS. A post in our own forum made us quite aware of the fact that what we're doing and mainly hów we're doing it might pose a future threat for the project. Particulary the name is quite an issue because it's just a straight violation of the intellectual property of Chris Sawyer. And the fact of recreating the game exactly like it was might not be totally legal too.
So, after some thinking we came up with a solution.
First, the name of the project is going to change (Transport Unlimited is the most probable to be the final pick).
Secondly, all direct links to TTD will be removed from the game, which mainly means that we won't use any of the TTD data anymore, instead development will continue with simple sprites we're going to draw ourselfs.
You might say that we were going to recreate TTD, and not create a new game. And I will say you're right, but by not using the TTD data we will not infringe any copyrights. Besides that, the degree of configurability will be turned up till the level where almost exact recreation of TTD-gameplay is possible through config files (including using the TTD data).
An 'anonymous person' will create a converter between the TTD data, and the TTS dataformat(s), which will enable everyone to use TTS as TTD, without us violating copyrights, and thus ensuring the project will remain to exist.
So, a quick summary of the above:
- A new name
- Even more configurability

The changes mean that the GUI should be adapted/recreated (again) to support a certain degree of themability/skinnability. The game engine wasn't really there yet, so not much 'change' on that part. And finally the configuration part will remain intact, and will be extended when it's needed.

A second revolution, the third chance for us to do it right, right from the beginning. But as the first revolution, this will also bring more possibilities. Things like 16/24/32 bit colordepths are getting closer, by not sticking to the TTD palette and sprites. Higher resolutions were already an option, and might be considered right from the beginning now.
But any advantage has a disadvantage. The progress of the project will be reset to almost zero again (though we don't have to rewrite everything now), thus again slowing down the release of a techdemo.

We're certain we're making the right choice at this moment, the future will tell us if we're right.
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

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Post by spaceman-spiff » 12 Dec 2003 03:17

It's probably for the better, just for the authors sake of all his work he's done

Hey, even the biggest firms have such set backs because they change their engine
And like you said, if you can import the images yourself, then it's up to the players to decide

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Post by ChrisCF » 12 Dec 2003 08:14

spaceman-spiff wrote:Hey, even the biggest firms have such set backs because they change their engine
*cough*hl2*cough*

Keep up the good work, guys Looks like you're learning a lot from this project :)
Bugzilla available for use - PM for details.

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Re: Progress: Another revolution

Post by ChaosDeathFish » 12 Dec 2003 10:17

TBOT wrote:An 'anonymous person' will create a converter between the TTD data, and the TTS dataformat(s), which will enable everyone to use TTS as TTD, without us violating copyrights, and thus ensuring the project will remain to exist.
You don't have to be anonymous - you can create converters to use the TTD graphics and data files in your program, as long as you don't distribute the files themselves. This would mean that everyone who wanted to use the original TTD files would be legally obligated to own the original game *cough*

Actually, there's plenty of other graphics files out there you could use freely, instead of using the default TTD ones, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Copying the user interface in its entirety would be dodgy, but creatinga pluggable look-and-feel for it and then releasing a TTD theme (or letting a third-party create a TTD theme) would be much safer.

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Post by Hyronymus » 12 Dec 2003 12:44

I prefer to wait for something good rather then discover soon that something wasn't all that good. Keep up the good work, stay confident and above all, stay realistic in what you can achieve!

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Post by Me_Simon » 17 Dec 2003 13:22

any estimates of how big the game could be, all this talk of richer colour graphics and stuff seem to make the game bigger than TTD, and is this game going to be built for and compatible with new/er operating systems like winxp and soon to be released 64bit operating systems?

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Post by TBOT » 18 Dec 2003 13:06

Me_Simon wrote:any estimates of how big the game could be, all this talk of richer colour graphics and stuff seem to make the game bigger than TTD, and is this game going to be built for and compatible with new/er operating systems like winxp and soon to be released 64bit operating systems?
Well, by choosing to make our own data the eventual release might even be smaller than TTD (because there will be lots less data, stored in a more efficient way).
The size of the executable will be quite a bit bigger than the TTD executable, due to all new features. But still, what are a few MB's in this era of broadband internet? (no offense to 56k users of course)
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

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Post by Hyronymus » 18 Dec 2003 13:13

I agree, as long as you keep the entire game under 700MB :roll: . Not that I have a 56k modem but if I look at a (unfinished at it was) game as Trains & Trucks Tycoon then I think it should be possible to stay under that limit easily.

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Post by mikeya » 18 Dec 2003 13:58

Cool, this sounds like the forum game :D
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Post by Zooz » 20 Dec 2003 19:24

Hyronymus wrote:I agree, as long as you keep the entire game under 700MB :roll: . Not that I have a 56k modem but if I look at a (unfinished at it was) game as Trains & Trucks Tycoon then I think it should be possible to stay under that limit easily.
700MB? 20mb takes 90 minutes here :roll:

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Post by orudge » 21 Dec 2003 00:51

I'm sure we could sell CDs with the game for the cost of producing the CD and the postage (this is quite within the GPL, if that is the license that is being chosen for the game) for those people without broadband, or who can't be bothered to leave their 56K modem downloading for hours and hours (like me).

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Post by way_2_fun » 21 Dec 2003 04:55

Zooz wrote:
Hyronymus wrote:I agree, as long as you keep the entire game under 700MB :roll: . Not that I have a 56k modem but if I look at a (unfinished at it was) game as Trains & Trucks Tycoon then I think it should be possible to stay under that limit easily.
700MB? 20mb takes 90 minutes here :roll:
Yes, 700MB is too much. TTD was about 14MB and that took me days using Winzip.

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Post by troopper5 » 21 Dec 2003 08:27

Well, if it's possible to get cable connection to the place you live, you should. It isn't so expensive nowadays anymore. Only the modem costs most. :wink:


orudge wrote:I'm sure we could sell CDs with the game for the cost of producing the CD and the postage (this is quite within the GPL, if that is the license that is being chosen for the game) for those people without broadband, or who can't be bothered to leave their 56K modem downloading for hours and hours (like me).
Hmm, this is what also a finnish group thought, as they are coding a game called ProPilkki 2 (I'm talking about this). But they gave up on it, because it would need so much different things; like licences, copyrights, export things to different countries etc...[/url]

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Post by orudge » 21 Dec 2003 11:32

You wouldn't need that. All you'd need is for someone with a CD burner to burn the game to disc, and post it off to whoever wants it, and they'll send a few pounds or whatever in return for their trouble. It's perfectly legal to sell copies in this way.

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Post by Hyronymus » 21 Dec 2003 13:06

It indeed is as long as the person who burns the CD is asked to that by the developers. I don't see any difficulty in sending it through mail either. You have those neat disc cases for mail delivery.

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Post by troopper5 » 21 Dec 2003 14:28

But when you sell something around world, I bet goverment wants taxes from it? So paper war will be sure thing. They said that, not me... But I'll try to find more about this...

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Post by mikeya » 21 Dec 2003 14:36

troopper5 wrote:But when you sell something around world, I bet goverment wants taxes from it? So paper war will be sure thing. They said that, not me... But I'll try to find more about this...
Why that? Those taxes are included in the postage stamp.
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Post by Hyronymus » 21 Dec 2003 15:04

I don't think they want taxes from it, troopper. The game isn'r designed for making a profit, remember!

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Post by ThorRune » 21 Dec 2003 16:37

They suck taxes out of ewerything... But surely they cant take taxes from posting 'em inside a country, and there would be no problem having a couple of folks in each country having a Burner and TTU :P . They of course has to be somewath polite tho, so you don't send your CD to someone and don't get it back. :!:

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Post by TBOT » 22 Dec 2003 13:12

OT, what's that!?

back ontopic plz...
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

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