TTS , transport tycoon clone

A TTD clone that was under development. Development has now been stopped.
User avatar
Bart
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1110
Joined: 02 Mar 2003 13:43
Location: Stompetoren, the Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Bart » 17 Oct 2003 07:25

Yeah sorry about the OT java thingie...I was just interrested. But the project sure looks very promising.....btw: nice movie...
[url=CALLTO://Sgreehder]Image[/url]

User avatar
krtaylor
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11773
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 01:58
Location: Washington DC, USA
Contact:

Post by krtaylor » 17 Oct 2003 14:22

I concur. And I think really there is only one person who is arguing as opposed to discussing. But it does seem to flow over. Is there some way in which we can show our support for this project? I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again: as far as I can tell, the TTSD project is going in exactly the right direction, in exactly the right way.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there

ChrisCF
Transport Empire Developer
Transport Empire Developer
Posts: 3610
Joined: 26 Dec 2002 16:39
Location: Over there --->

Post by ChrisCF » 17 Oct 2003 15:13

The same goes for designs for example. I can sell a design to someone, but the design is still mine, and if someone want to alter it, he should first ask my permission.
The same does not go for designs. A design is a concept, not an instance. If I go and buy a television from a random company, let's call them SonaPanic for now, then I own the television, and it is mine to do whatever I like with it. The idea of "owning" a piece of software should reasonable follow the same lines. If I obtain a copy of a piece of software, that copy should be mine to do as I please. The original is owned by whoever has it (in 100% of cases, this is the original programmer). For a programmer to mandate that they own the original and all copies made from it is very similar to SonaPanic sending me a letter claiming that, 14 years after it was bought, they now want it back, since it belongs to them and not me, despite the fact that it is by all rights mine.

The bottom line is, you're not going to play by open source rules, and use it for what it does best, then don't bother with it at all. For all intents and purposes, they might as well keep everything locked up for all eternity. Also, you do realise that if someone makes a change in CVS, you can reverse it if you don't like it.
Bugzilla available for use - PM for details.

User avatar
krtaylor
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11773
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 01:58
Location: Washington DC, USA
Contact:

Post by krtaylor » 17 Oct 2003 15:31

Let me make it clear to the TTSD team that the opinions of ChrisCF are his and his alone, and do NOT reflect those of everybody else here. He is entitled to his view, and the rest of us are entitled to ours - and that is, that your project is very worthy and we are eagerly anticipating its completion under the terms you already explained. Please don't be disconcerted by ChrisCF, it would be a very rare project in which there was not at least one naysayer.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13189
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 17 Oct 2003 15:34

ChrisCF wrote:The same does not go for designs. A design is a concept, not an instance. If I go and buy a television from a random company, let's call them SonaPanic for now, then I own the television, and it is mine to do whatever I like with it.
Now you are really going OT and mixing things up buddy!. A design is something that has been put to paper. A television is made up of several designs: electrical design, shape/looks design etc. All these things have been developed and put to paper (or else: stored in a computer after being designed in AutoCAD, Arkey, 3Dsketch, whatever). You can do with the end product of these designs whatever you wish IF the manufacturer doesn't say different. For televisions that is OK, but take a house for example.
If I design a house for you and I sell it to you (nevermind the details) then you cannot change the design without consulting me, the architect (or the designer in general). It's normal that architectural designs are protected from editing by others without explicit warning. Exactly the other way round as with the television example. Now be smart and don't argue with me about this. I've studied engineering and architecture, I know the deal.

TBOT
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 441
Joined: 30 Jul 2003 18:36
Location: The Codecave

Post by TBOT » 17 Oct 2003 16:55

ChrisCF wrote:The bottom line is, you're not going to play by open source rules, and use it for what it does best, then don't bother with it at all. For all intents and purposes, they might as well keep everything locked up for all eternity. Also, you do realise that if someone makes a change in CVS, you can reverse it if you don't like it.
Yeesh, is there a guideline that says you MUST apply to the holy open source rules.

There is also no rule that specifies that a project must be open source from the beginning of the project (there are very few which actually do). And besides that, you have nothing to whine about, because I always said TTS WILL be open source, technically TTS is closed source at the moment.

And as my last statement about this: the term open source does not automatically refer to the 'open source definition', simply because there is no other term for 'giving away your source code'.
So please, stop argueing, you've made your point clear (everything has to go strictly by the rules and anyone who breaks them is wrong; ever drove through a red light ?), and I think I've made my point clear that I don't agree with you, continuing would lead to an infinite discussion leaving you with empty hands, since we're not going to change our point on this.
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

ChrisCF
Transport Empire Developer
Transport Empire Developer
Posts: 3610
Joined: 26 Dec 2002 16:39
Location: Over there --->

Post by ChrisCF » 17 Oct 2003 17:30

Who made [Hyronymus] the Topic Police?

Actually, I could make any changes to the house and design as necessary. OK, if it's a major visual change, or the use of the property is to change, then you need to approach the local authority planning comittee, but if I felt that, e.g. I wanted an extra canopy over the front door, or the wiring needs to go somewhere else, then that's up to me, being the owner of the house. If I wanted to move things around inside, then I am free to do that, and the original architect has no business coming back and dictating what I can and can't do in my own house.

The original design of the house is yours to have more of them built wherever you like, but the actual instance of the house is mine.

The same should really go with software - my copy is my own (something which the big software companies seem to forget). Of course, if the source is to be available when released, then I can exercise my right to fiddle with the source and learn from it as appropriate (which doesn't affect the pre-release development), which seems likely to be the case. Consider the line drawn under the point of the source itself. We leave it argued this far, no farther.

But I imagine that I'm not the only one here who feels they might have been genuinely interested in helping out with the project, possibly in ways that don't necessarily involve seeing the code. My particular field of expertise (and I am something of an expert in the field - I certainly learnt from the best) is u7y, a11y, i18n and l10n (I'm too lazy to type them in full :) - provided you make the code available during development, the offer of my help in this matter is still open), things which can make the difference between a great program and a brilliant one. u7y and a11y issues are just as important as functional bugs in the code - if a given feature is broken, or difficult to use, people won't bother with it (e.g. TTD multiplayer. The developers didn't put enough thought into making it work, so none of us bother trying any more. :) ). I imagine that there would have been people interested in supplying some MIDI music for the game, or even compressed wave formats like MP3s, etc. Then there's the Idea Factory (I mean, you can't expect us programmers to code *AND* think, can you? ;) ) . Of course, if you're not even willing to let people climb on board for these ancillary functions, then carry on.
Bugzilla available for use - PM for details.

User avatar
krtaylor
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11773
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 01:58
Location: Washington DC, USA
Contact:

Post by krtaylor » 17 Oct 2003 18:41

I think they said they'd be glad for people to work on ancillary functions, after the core engine is working. Which makes perfect sense to me.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there

User avatar
zpeidar
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 27
Joined: 19 May 2003 17:58
Location: Norway

Post by zpeidar » 18 Oct 2003 16:10

Hmm, My opinion is this, let them do as they want until they finally release the source, and be happy that they have promised to do so. If they wanted to they could have left the project NOW, and that without giving away the source they`ve already have made. Therefore, don`t whine, be happy. It`s their choice. If you want to have an open-source-from-day-one project, do it yourself.

Myself, I`m quite excited to hear that someone actually is doing this, it might do the same to the TT community that ScummVM did to the Scumm game community. I`m really looking forward to the day I can download SOMETHING from this project, but until then, I await delivery with great anticipation.


krtaylor wrote:Please don't be disconcerted by ChrisCF, it would be a very rare project in which there was not at least one naysayer.
What is a naysayer?, just wondering.
The answer to: "Life, The Universe, and Everything" IS "Forty-Two"

That`s all there is to it, now STFU and get back to work.

User avatar
krtaylor
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11773
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 01:58
Location: Washington DC, USA
Contact:

Post by krtaylor » 18 Oct 2003 16:16

A naysayer is someone who says nay, of course.
In other words, they criticise, say it can't be done, shouldn't be done, isn't worthwhile, etc.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there

User avatar
zpeidar
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 27
Joined: 19 May 2003 17:58
Location: Norway

Post by zpeidar » 18 Oct 2003 17:01

krtaylor wrote:A naysayer is someone who says nay, of course.
In other words, they criticise, say it can't be done, shouldn't be done, isn't worthwhile, etc.
Sorry for being stupid, but does nay mean the same as no (like norwegian nei). Or is it something else? sorry for OT.
The answer to: "Life, The Universe, and Everything" IS "Forty-Two"

That`s all there is to it, now STFU and get back to work.

User avatar
DominionSpy
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1429
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 23:59
Location: Lancashire, UK
Contact:

Post by DominionSpy » 18 Oct 2003 17:05

Yes - it's an old word for no.

In our parliament (government) votes are still signified by aye and nay (yes and no).
Image
You're saying I'm a Dominion spy, and don't even know it! - Dr. Bashir
That's the Joker in my avatar, not me. No wait it is me.

User avatar
Gil
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 37
Joined: 24 Jul 2003 08:35
Location: Phrae, Thailand

Post by Gil » 20 Oct 2003 09:38

Quick question for you TBOT.....what are your thoughts on AI in TTS so far?

Prof. Frink
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 3849
Joined: 20 Jan 2003 14:51
Location: Broadstone, Dorset
Contact:

Post by Prof. Frink » 20 Oct 2003 09:42

I doubt it's programmed yet.

User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6939
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn » 20 Oct 2003 09:44

I believe the first builts will be without AI altogether.
AI is extremely difficult to make right.

User avatar
Gil
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 37
Joined: 24 Jul 2003 08:35
Location: Phrae, Thailand

Post by Gil » 20 Oct 2003 09:44

That wasn't the question......
Just wanted to know if he has any IDEAS about it yet.

TBOT
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 441
Joined: 30 Jul 2003 18:36
Location: The Codecave

Post by TBOT » 20 Oct 2003 10:53

Gil wrote:That wasn't the question......
Just wanted to know if he has any IDEAS about it yet.
At first we're not going to implement any AI. Something like network support has higher priority at the stage we can begin with something like that.

My personal thought, when we ever will come to the AI, is to make a standalone program which connects to a multiplayer server. But then again, we'd rather make no AI than a s*** TTD like AI.
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Bart
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1110
Joined: 02 Mar 2003 13:43
Location: Stompetoren, the Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Bart » 20 Oct 2003 10:54

It'll sure be a challenge! But then, I also think good multiplayer support will be much more interresting...
[url=CALLTO://Sgreehder]Image[/url]

User avatar
Gil
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 37
Joined: 24 Jul 2003 08:35
Location: Phrae, Thailand

Post by Gil » 20 Oct 2003 11:03

Yeah I certainly agree, AI is more a luxury than a necessity - reliable multiplayer support is far more important (and fun!). I would certainly choose multiplayer if it came to a choice between the two, but AI can have it's good points.
Hmmmmm.......

TBOT
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 441
Joined: 30 Jul 2003 18:36
Location: The Codecave

Post by TBOT » 20 Oct 2003 12:11

Gil wrote:..., but AI can have it's good points. ...
With TTD you can laugh about it :P
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

Locked

Return to “Transport Unlimited”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest