[OpenTTD] Military items

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Taschi
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by Taschi »

I'd assume that most warships are significantly better at transporting cargo than any given fighter jet.

In particular, aircraft carriers have been used for transporting ground airplanes between bases (which the three American fleet carriers in the Pacific were doing when the attack on Pearl Harbor happened, which turned out to be really good luck), and as troop transports during peacetime (most notably during Operation Magic Carpet). Another notable example is the Essex class' use for fishing space capsules out of the ocean during the Gemini and Apollo programs, although modeling that in OpenTTD is probably a bad idea.

Also, military ships could just be used as eye-candy, similar to the various car NewGRFs.

OTOH ships have far, far more detail that is recognizable at "OpenTTD scale" than planes so I can perfectly understand if you don't want to deal with that. Just saying they could have their in-game uses.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

Taschi wrote: 07 Jun 2021 14:00 I'd assume that most warships are significantly better at transporting cargo than any given fighter jet.

In particular, aircraft carriers have been used for transporting ground airplanes between bases (which the three American fleet carriers in the Pacific were doing when the attack on Pearl Harbor happened, which turned out to be really good luck), and as troop transports during peacetime (most notably during Operation Magic Carpet). Another notable example is the Essex class' use for fishing space capsules out of the ocean during the Gemini and Apollo programs, although modeling that in OpenTTD is probably a bad idea.

Also, military ships could just be used as eye-candy, similar to the various car NewGRFs.

OTOH ships have far, far more detail that is recognizable at "OpenTTD scale" than planes so I can perfectly understand if you don't want to deal with that. Just saying they could have their in-game uses.
I don't think we understand each other. :?: Fighters and reconnaissance aircraft are just eye-candy objects, modest transport can reduce the cost of their operation. This is how I design them. Other objects in the grf, such as transport aircraft, are designed for the transport of goods, which is why I included them in the grf.

Of the eye-candy fighters, so far only F-4 Phantom II and a very nice Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker from Grigory1 were available. Hyckor added, for example, the B-1 Lancer. I also wanted other types and that's why I created others. Their purpose is only eye-candy. Yes. That's it. They have no other special purpose, as do many other objects in other GRFs. You're right, objects are small, in 8-bit graphics in particular. For me, it's better to start with 8-bit, albeit with lousy options for details, than to create a 3D model in a few months and edit it for OpenTTD. I'm more of an encoder than a graphic designer. And I'm still learning how to create grf for OpenTTD.

In order for the grf to have units usable for transport, I added transport aircraft, now mostly American-made. These should be routinely usable. Their balancing, especially operating costs, needs to be resolved.

To create a general group of aircraft, I incorporated American and European aircraft. I still miss the Russian part here. For my pleasure, I want to add more Czechoslovak machines.

What I originally thought were battleships, such as the Bismarck. As I have already mentioned, OpenTTD is a peace game, so I do not want to currently include units that have the main means of their purpose, such as cannons. That's why I've backed down from the idea of ​​a battleship. Yes, aircraft carriers, WWII commercial aircraft carriers (MAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_aircraft_carrier) and the like are good. However, it is necessary to consider whether it makes sense to create one of the aircraft carriers as a ship, if I have these types as static airports. Patrol boats and similar boats can serve as eye-candy or with small transport capacity. Amphibious warfare ships would probably be ideal for transport, as would light aircraft carriers, that is a fact. However, I have not thought about this in detail yet.

So far, I have only considered some trucks among the cars, for example, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_trucks. But maybe when I solve this, the situation will be different and a more combative vehicle will be created. I leave it open.

But first I have to draw a ship and then learn to code it to be usable. :) But now I have a few more planes and helicopters ahead of me. Then the ships. :D
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by bassem.90 »

dares wrote: 07 Jun 2021 13:40
bassem.90 wrote: 07 Jun 2021 13:15 Are you planning for any mobile ground armored vehicles , tanks , missile units , air defenses and naval vessels or just planes ?
It is difficult. OpenTTD is peaceful game so I tried to create content without obvious war objects. Fighter planes are still just planes, sometimes they can carry some cargo.

For objects such as tanks, battleships, etc. The war theme is already obvious and I would like to avoid this depiction. Now it's the turn of the aircraft and then I'll try another type of vehicle - maybe ships (commercial aircraft carriers, transport, Liberty, ..), submarines to transport cargo, .. I do not know, I'll see.
Oh I see I understand thank you
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by kamnet »

There are quite a few amphibious road vehicles that would be great to use with the Water Way Roads NewGRF road set. I've got another spreadsheet set up with that. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

This is a list of 95 military and civilian amphibious all-terrain vehicles (AATVs), amphibious off-road vehicles, and light armor/armed military armored patrol vehicles (APVs) and armored personnel carriers (APCs). My basic criteria is that the vehicle had to weight at least two tons and carry at a minimum either 5 passengers or 1 ton of cargo.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

kamnet wrote: 07 Jun 2021 23:38 There are quite a few amphibious road vehicles that would be great to use with the Water Way Roads NewGRF road set. I've got another spreadsheet set up with that. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
...
Who's ready isn't surprised, is it? :wink: I understand you have a spreadsheet for almost every occasion. Good preparation. :wink: A spreadsheet can really come in handy.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by kamnet »

dares wrote: 08 Jun 2021 10:31
kamnet wrote: 07 Jun 2021 23:38 There are quite a few amphibious road vehicles that would be great to use with the Water Way Roads NewGRF road set. I've got another spreadsheet set up with that. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
...
Who's ready isn't surprised, is it? :wink: I understand you have a spreadsheet for almost every occasion. Good preparation. :wink: A spreadsheet can really come in handy.
Several years ago I got interested in finding new forms of transportation for OpenTTD to exploit, and thinking about how they would fit into the game. "RoadTypes" was still only something people were theoretically discussing. So then I had to think about how those vehicles fit into OpenTTD and how they can be useful and not just pointless eyecandy that doesn't contribute to the game. That mostly lends to larger vehicles that have big capacity, but my style of gameplay also leans towards small vehicles with small capacities for shorter runs, even if they're unprofitable. But, it still has to be useful, which is why I set a standard of 5 persons or 1 ton of cargo capacity.

Going through my spreadsheet page for AATVs, that may be the most complete list that I have where most of the vehicles have a good number of stats and photos to reference, and there's no mystery gaps in information. There's lots and lots of military APC/APVs that I've still not covered, but frankly most of them are pretty similar: tracked, 6x6 or 8x8 vehicle with a carrying capacity of 1-3 drivers and 7-10 persons, they all drive 50-60 kph on highway, 25-35 kph offroad, 5-25 kph water, 250-500 hp motors, almost no cargo capacity, and they all look like clones of each other. Every country pretty much wants their own national version of this style of vehicle.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by Frysta Slime »

How about adding some Interwar aircraft (and possibly ships) to the NewGRF if possible?
:D {{ Might stop playing with Paimon and play OpenTTD instead }} :D
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

Version 0.5.0 "Red Wings" released. Available here https://github.com/adpro/openttd-milita ... tag/v0.5.0 and on BaNaNaS https://bananas.openttd.org/manager/newgrf/41440101.

Changelog:

Added
- Polikarpov I-16 airplane
- Yakovlev Yak-9 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 airplane
- Sukhoi Su-30 airplane
- Sukhoi Su-57 airplane
- Antonov An-2 airplane
- Antonov An-12 airplane
- Antonov An-22 airplane
- Antonov An-24 airplane
- Antonov An-26 airplane
- Ilyushin Il-76 airplane
- Parameters to choose which aircraft to use in game
- Parameter which airports to use in game
- CSV version of Numbers spreadsheet

Changed
- Aircraft source file reorganization
- NML spritesets moved to templates
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

Frysta Slime wrote: 25 Jun 2021 07:43 How about adding some Interwar aircraft (and possibly ships) to the NewGRF if possible?
What do you mean Interwar aircraft?

Nieuport-Delage NiD.29 - first flight 1918, introduction 1922
Hawker Hurricane - first flight 1935, introduction 1937
new Polikarpov I-16 - first flight 1933, introduction 1935

If you want more airplanes in 1920s or 1930s, wait for 0.6.0 with Czechoslovakian Wings update :wink:
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by bassem.90 »

dares wrote: 26 Jun 2021 16:28 Version 0.5.0 "Red Wings" released. Available here https://github.com/adpro/openttd-milita ... tag/v0.5.0 and on BaNaNaS https://bananas.openttd.org/manager/newgrf/41440101.

Changelog:

Added
- Polikarpov I-16 airplane
- Yakovlev Yak-9 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 airplane
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 airplane
- Sukhoi Su-30 airplane
- Sukhoi Su-57 airplane
- Antonov An-2 airplane
- Antonov An-12 airplane
- Antonov An-22 airplane
- Antonov An-24 airplane
- Antonov An-26 airplane
- Ilyushin Il-76 airplane
- Parameters to choose which aircraft to use in game
- Parameter which airports to use in game
- CSV version of Numbers spreadsheet

Changed
- Aircraft source file reorganization
- NML spritesets moved to templates
Yay Soviet aircrafts so cool ! Thank you :)
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

It is a great honor for me to present you a new version of NewGRF Military Items, which this time contains Czechoslovak aircraft - v0.6.0 Czechoslovakian Wings. The aircraft cover the period from the first Czechoslovak Republic, in which the republic built from its inception a new air force to the licensed production of the MiG-15 and MiG-19, thus ending its own development of fighter aircraft in Czechoslovakia by a decision of the Soviet Union. Subsequently, the Czechoslovak Republic had to focus only on the development of training aircraft.
In the release you will find the constructions of chief designers such as Husník (Aero A.18), Beneš + Hajn (Avia), Šmolík (Letov), Vlček (L-39) and others.
As a special bonus, all aircraft are available in 4 color variants - Czechoslovakian Air Force, Air Force with stripes, 2cc and 2cc reversed.
Enjoy unique aircraft of your own Czechoslovak design.

Added
- Avia B.3 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero A.18 airplane in 4 liveries
- Avia B.21 airplane in 4 liveries
- Avia Ba.33 airplane in 4 liveries
- Avia B.534 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero A.304 airplane in 4 liveries
- Avia B.35 airplane in 4 liveries
- Letov Š.328 airplane in 4 liveries
- Zlín Z.12 airplane in 4 liveries
- Avia S-199 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero K-75 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero S-103 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero S-105 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero L-29 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero L-39 airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero L-39NG airplane in 4 liveries
- Aero L-159 airplane in 4 liveries
- Let L-410 airplane in 4 liveries
- Let L-410NG airplane in 4 liveries
- Parameter to choose which Czechoslovakian aircraft to use in game

Changed
- Rebalanced purchase and running costs for all aircraft
- Adjusted the hue of the company colours for european planes
- Adjusted the hue of the company colours for russian planes
- Adjusted the hue of the company colours for u.s. planes
- XCF source files reorganization
- JSON source files reorganization

Available here https://github.com/adpro/openttd-milita ... tag/v0.6.0 and on BaNaNaS https://bananas.openttd.org/manager/newgrf/41440101.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

Frysta Slime wrote: 25 Jun 2021 07:43 How about adding some Interwar aircraft (and possibly ships) to the NewGRF if possible?
I think that after the update Czechoslovakian wings, there are already enough interwar aircraft
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

I'm working on helicopters now. During this work, I came to a situation where it seems strange to me if helicopters do not have a tail rotor / fenestron. However, I looked at the default set and the World Airliner Set and no helicopter has drawn a tail rotor / fenestron. When trying to animate the tail rotor, it would be an animation of, for example, a five-bladed rotor with a length of 2-4 pixels, which seems to me to be on the edge for the animation of this element.

Question 1) What is your opinion, does it make sense at all to draw or animate the tail rotor / fenestron on a given scale?

Question 2) Do you know how to implement dual rotors like CH-47 Chinook? If I understand NML and NewGRF correctly, one way is to make no rotor and dual rotors must be animated in helicopter body sprite or create sprite for helicopter body anad numerous sprites for rotors and combine all of that to composite sprite. Are there any other solutions?
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by Quast65 »

Hello, I really like your work!

I was wondering if you were maybe considering to make objects to complete the aircraftcarrier-airports a bit, so they look a bit more like a ship.
Some objects that add a bow and a stern (and something for the side, to hide the foundations):
Carrier.png
Carrier.png (44.79 KiB) Viewed 3936 times
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

Quast65 wrote: 12 Aug 2021 08:57 Hello, I really like your work!

I was wondering if you were maybe considering to make objects to complete the aircraftcarrier-airports a bit, so they look a bit more like a ship.
Some objects that add a bow and a stern (and something for the side, to hide the foundations):
Carrier.png
Thank you.

In fact, it occurred to me at the time of creating the issue that included these airports. All the airports seemed unfinished to me, and I looked to see if there was a foundation variant in the OpenGFX + library that would be usable. At the time I was creating the airport, I had about a month of experience with NML and I was happy to build at least a working airport, even though it is mirror-inverted due to OpenTTD - the building / island is to the left of the landing direction, the opposite of reality. Therefore, your example in the picture would be the other way around. Stern in the southwest and bow in the northeast.

My coding skill are better, so coding would be possible. Graphic skills are on the same level, so there is bigger problem :D Ugly AFB airport buildings are proof of that :oops:
I note it to future enhancement.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by bassem.90 »

Please refit the An-24 and An-26 with passengers 🙏
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

bassem.90 wrote: 14 Aug 2021 13:14 Please refit the An-24 and An-26 with passengers 🙏
I will look at it.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by Argus »

Would it be possible to add a zero noise parameter like Opengfx airports?
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by adpro »

Argus wrote: 05 Apr 2023 17:47 Would it be possible to add a zero noise parameter like Opengfx airports?
That's a good insight. If I find the source codes for OpenGFX+ Airports and am able to use the NML code, then it can be added.
...
I found it. :D So a few notes for me..
source code: https://bundles.openttdcoop.org/airport ... es/LATEST/
xz utils for unpacking: https://tukaani.org/xz/
Source file for parameter: header.pnml

Code: Select all

grf {
	...
	param {
		disable_noise_level {
			type: bool;
			name: string(STR_PARAM_DISABLE_NOISE);
			desc: string(STR_PARAM_DISABLE_NOISE_DESC);
			def_value: 0;
			bit:       0;
		}
	...
}
#define COND_DISABLE_NOISE \
	if (disable_noise_level) { property { noise_level: 0; } }
So I may try to add this feature in the next release.

But I can't say when the new release will be released. After the 0.6.0 release, I started working on the new version 0.7.0 with helicopters and here I ran into problems changing the rotor positioning when using PixelTool. This led to a lot of frustration, as it turned out that for helicopters the use of PixelTool was quite inappropriate and another tool had to be found and thus the entire development workflow adjusted. I watched TimberWolf's videos about using MagicaVoxel and the GoRender tool, but those videos scared me in July 2021 with the complexity, just like MagicaVoxel. Then I had to deal with many things IRL that took up all my time for a long time.
Finally, I recently tried MagicaVoxel including GoRender and on my private experimental GRF tried new graphics outputs that require sprite template editing. However, I also tested the zoom sprite, so I finally started the revision of the whole project, including editing the spreadsheet with aircraft data, scale factor for aircrafts and helicopters and more.
Therefore, I am now working on a version that will have breaking changes, resizing of some planes and zoom sprites for selected planes. Anyway, most planes will need to be converted from PixelTool JSON to MagicaVoxel objects at higher resolution than 1x zoom. So far I have converted (=create new from 0) the L-39 and L-39 NG according to the drawings (e.g. http://l-39.cz/_L-39/L-39_vykresy/L-39C_draw.gif) and it took several hours.
I am thinking that I will modify the planes gradually, depending on where I change the zoom factor with regard to the type of plane (eg change all transports at once, then all fighters, etc.) and divide this into several releases. Anyway, I want to start with the helicopters so I can release new content and tweak more modifications on the original planes in future releases. This will bring the game content faster and I can deal with the remodeling and zoom factor afterwards. :idea:

Anyway, the transition from OpenTTD 1.11 to 1.13 and from NML 0.5.x to 0.7.x also means changes in the code, so I have to edit this first. Then I can start creating the helicopters, add the required features and work on remodeling the released planes after 0.7 release. Yeah, that's what I like the most as the procedure for the closest job.
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Re: [OpenTTD] Military items

Post by Argus »

Excellent news :)
And now I know why helicopters in Planeset, for example, sometimes look so ugly - the rotor is down :D
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