[CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

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_dp_
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by _dp_ »

Don't worry too much what random people on the internet say xD

IMO main issue with GPL in your case is that you're misinforming people on what rights they have when (re)using your content. And while you can always choose another license for new releases and sweep the issue with past ones under the rug it would be awesome if you could actually bring it up to a GPL compliance. And publishing source isn't really a big issue here, using github or similar mb a good practice, but for GPL it's enough to just zip it all and attach to this forum thread or smth similar. More interesting question is what to do with graphics as some may argue you need to include the models you used for a full GPL compliance. But in my opinion even if you don't it's good enough as long as you can clear that sprites you rendered can be reused under the GPL terms, i.e. by anyone who provides sources and proper attribution.
Last edited by _dp_ on 08 Jul 2020 19:14, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by 2TallTyler »

stefino_cz wrote:
08 Jul 2020 18:19
2. Send us normal "step by step" manual how to upload source somewhere. Normal means for basic user who isn't a programmer.
I was intimidated by online repositories before I found the desktop version of GitHub. It's extremely simple to use and I haven't had to touch any of the command-line tools which scared me away from GitHub for so long.

After setting up a GitHub account and installing the desktop app, you can import your project with File > Add Local Repository, then clicking a Publish button to upload everything to the GitHub server. That's it: your source is online.

Besides simply making the source available, a version control system like GitHub makes collaboration easier than Google Drive because it's designed for code, not documents. GitHub Desktop can synchronize your local files with the online repository in with one click, and if you make a temporary copy of the project (a "branch") to work on an experimental feature or something which breaks other functionality, GitHub can automatically merge your changes into the master branch, even if another collaborator has made changes since you made your copy.

Even if you choose not to have your source publicly accessible, you can create a private GitHub project which is only accessible to you and your chosen collaborators.

I'm sure other repositories have similar features and are liked by their users, but as a non-programmer I can vouch for GitHub.

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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by nirasa »

stefino_cz wrote:
08 Jul 2020 18:19
(We also had bad experience that someone (ex-developer) stole our unfinnished GRF and started to provide it. So you can see on Youtube our House set which isn't published yet. But this is another story).
Have a nice day, stefino
Czech: Chci se tobě i celému týmu omluvit, protože jsme s Radkem použili tento newgrf CZTR House. Já osobně jsem nevěděla a ani netušila, že bývalý vývojář tento soubor začal bez dovolení poskytovat. Ještě jednou - omlouvám se. Tento newgrf mažu ze hry, kterou nahráváme na YT, a mažu ho i ze svého disku.

English (google trans.): I want to apologize to you and the whole team, because Radek and I used this newgrf CZTR House. I personally did not know and had no idea that the former developer started providing this file without permission. Once again - I'm sorry. I'm deleting this newgrf from the game we're recording on YT, and I'm deleting it from my disc as well.
nirasa

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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by stefino_cz »

2TallTyler wrote:
08 Jul 2020 19:00

I was intimidated by online repositories before I found the desktop version of GitHub...
I'll give it another chance :)
nirasa wrote:
09 Jul 2020 05:32
English (google trans.): I want to apologize to you and the whole team, because Radek and I used this newgrf CZTR House. I personally did not know and had no idea that the former developer started providing this file without permission. Once again - I'm sorry. I'm deleting this newgrf from the game we're recording on YT, and I'm deleting it from my disc as well.
nirasa
It wasn't your mistake :wink:
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by Knight8510 »

I'm playing the game of the version "JGR.0.34.2". Among that, there is a traffic light. I would like to you hope changed it to the CZ style or the same design as the occlusion traffic lights. :bow:
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by Zley_Muffle »

Knight8510 wrote:
09 Jul 2020 13:21
I'm playing the game of the version "JGR.0.34.2". Among that, there is a traffic light. I would like to you hope changed it to the CZ style or the same design as the occlusion traffic lights. :bow:
This is probably directly dependent on the JGRPP, so we cannot do a thing about it.
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by andythenorth »

stefino_cz wrote:
08 Jul 2020 18:19
BTW we spent one week by installing NML 0.5 for windows...really great story and nice support for windows users.
Do you know what you could do about that? You could turn up and f*** help, instead of making pissy aside comments in this thread.

Some of us do our best to support the tools like nml, even for platforms and use cases we don't use, or give a crap about.

Meanwhile we're fielding licensing drama because you guys couldn't be bothered to learn what your responsibilities are. We have to write and respond to multiple things to prevent some kind of stupid community rfit over a non-issue.

I rarely get to work on grfs any more, most of the last couple of years most of my OpenTTD time has been spent keeping the OpenTTD project alive one way or another.

I've had enough, I'm done with OpenTTD for now.

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stefino_cz
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by stefino_cz »

andythenorth wrote:
12 Jul 2020 07:11
Do you know what you could do about that? You could turn up and f*** help, instead of making pissy aside comments in this thread.

Some of us do our best to support the tools like nml, even for platforms and use cases we don't use, or give a crap about.

Meanwhile we're fielding licensing drama because you guys couldn't be bothered to learn what your responsibilities are. We have to write and respond to multiple things to prevent some kind of stupid community rfit over a non-issue.

I rarely get to work on grfs any more, most of the last couple of years most of my OpenTTD time has been spent keeping the OpenTTD project alive one way or another.

I've had enough, I'm done with OpenTTD for now.
I know that you make a lot for OTTD like your GRF, NML etc. But why the old NML had basic .exe file ( I think it was .exe or something like that) so we are able easily compile NML in Windows without any extra SW for Python and new NML had only source or what is it. We have to istall extra python programs to run this NML compilator. The problem is not about install these extra SW, but we are not programmers. Manuals on web doesn't work so friend of mine helped me to install it different way by using CygWin. It was +- 6 months ago and now, my colleagues are not able to install it via my simple tutorial (which I wrote when I succesfully installed it) because I completelly forgot it and something is wrong.

About licence - as we said. We know, that we have to provide our data. But primary problem is the same like the first problem about NML. I tried to upload data to the devzone unsuccesfuly. I really have no time and experience to sit by PC and solve problems about uploading data somewhere. I will try it again with Github but honestly - I don!t know what I have to do. I'm 3D modeler, not programmer. My personal victory it that I have learned NML so I'm able to add models into OTTD game. In other case there would be nothing like CZTR because I don't know someone who knows how to code graphics into OTTD and have a lot of time for it.

I've also spent 7 years of my life of creating things into this game...
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by Zley_Muffle »

Wow, old school flamewar, long time no see! So bad we all do get old... :lol:

Nevertheless I am still thinking - why do people ask for our sources? They wanna help with development of our set? Why did not they say so! So simple is offering to help building something - 2TallTyler is awaiting glorification - I cracked my very minor and stupid/idiotic/dumb mistake thanks to him because of this pointless licencing debate :bow:

All our contributors have access to source files (or those respective to their field of expertise so they can work on it) if they PROVE they can bring anything that moves CZTR forward. Lickable pixels in non-released GRFs included 8) We do not see the need of sharing our source with everybody - yet. We can do it "in time" when WE are satisfied with the project. There is nothing malicious, we just wanna work on it how we see fit.

Otherwise we are forced either to delete the project due to our inability to honor both licence and our deals with authors or update in next version licencing so that we are no longer obliged to provide source.

We are still willing to share our NMLs though (in time)
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by _dp_ »

Everyone is asking for a code because you positioned yourself as an open-source project. By chosing GPL as your license you gained rights to reuse other people's work but you're also obliged to provide your sources to anyone. And there is no otherwise, at this point you're running "f*ck you" license, not GPL. Unless you want to continue this drama forever you have to either honor GPL terms or chose some closed source license and remove all GPL-licensed stuff you used (if any).

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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by Zley_Muffle »

_dp_ wrote:
13 Jul 2020 08:10
Everyone is asking for a code because you positioned yourself as an open-source project. By chosing GPL as your license you gained rights to reuse other people's work but you're also obliged to provide your sources to anyone. And there is no otherwise, at this point you're running "f*ck you" license, not GPL. Unless you want to continue this drama forever you have to either honor GPL terms or chose some closed source license and remove all GPL-licensed stuff you used (if any).
That is what I have said, right?

We will change licence ASAP with the ENG translation update to keep everyone happy. I cannot say how is it with vehicles but in other cases we have written our code mostly from scratch or from wiki (with few noted exceptions like me trying to tackle industry input/output so I am using FIRS as an example to learn from, though the code in the end will be most probably written anew to suit our set). As stefino_cz have said - he is not a programmer and neither am I, so we were consulting with others who gave us hints how to do some things (for example vehicles longer than 8, 2x2 buildings and such), dunno how that is classified. We are currently discussing how much code is directly from other authors in GRFs released so far that falls under GPL.

I will say it for a last time - we will release our NML so everyone can learn from it in the same way we do learn how to write it - when its right time. You can forget the graphics though, thats a no go.

You know why?

Because we have already experience with some people trying to get their hands on it and use it for their own gains - starting with the guy who would "upload it on his mod-page" that was heavily plagued by ads (= revenue with no effort) to someone using whole package of CZTR stuff on different forums posing like author even though he did only one really bad model during whole year THAT EVEN WAS NOT IMPLEMENTED in the game (cause it sucked). Thats why we are so protective about it, at least until we are satisfied with results of our own work.

Last few days I have been thinking about this licensing issues instead working on the project itself so this is my last time discussing it here. Thanks for the input, we will correct our mistakes. Its all we can do.

Howgh 8)
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by perverted monkey »

I came here to enjoy the CZTR progress and now again this nagging about the licences. X(
If someone has issues, and he may be right, let him give a hand to help the team, otherwise refrain from posting again about the same matter.
This is a development thread and such posts are a distraction to us, even more to the CZTR team who have given us the best, as of quality of artwork, GRF set.

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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by kamnet »

I will post this, both my personal view and my official few as a moderator.

After speaking with the team members, it's become clear to me that this IS NOT a GPL-licensed project. It was a misunderstanding on the team's part when they selected this license. From what I can tell, from what has been shared with me, none of the code and none of the graphics are derived from GPL sources.

Should the team decide to choose another license at a later date, they can. For now, consider this a completely closed-source project. And let's stop discussing the issue of the license. Thank you.

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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by stefino_cz »

kamnet wrote:
15 Jul 2020 01:34
...And let's stop discussing the issue of the license. Thank you.
Thank you kamnet :)
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by Quast65 »

Something I noticed from one of your screenshots of the tramtracks:
Example531.png
Example531.png (295.64 KiB) Viewed 866 times
The sleepers are not evenly apart from each other (I think it happens at the edges of the tiles).
I can imagine that for a high-res set, this eventually becomes noticeable during gameplay ;-)
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by stefino_cz »

Quast65 wrote:
15 Jul 2020 13:01
Something I noticed from one of your screenshots of the tramtracks:
Example531.png
The sleepers are not evenly apart from each other (I think it happens at the edges of the tiles).
I can imagine that for a high-res set, this eventually becomes noticeable during gameplay ;-)
Yes, it is at the edges. But I have to admit that I didn't see it in the game before :D On the other hand, 90% of tram tracks are on the road so there are no sleepers.
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by glx »

stefino_cz wrote:
12 Jul 2020 11:13
But why the old NML had basic .exe file ( I think it was .exe or something like that) so we are able easily compile NML in Windows without any extra SW for Python and new NML had only source or what is it. We have to istall extra python programs to run this NML compilator. The problem is not about install these extra SW, but we are not programmers. Manuals on web doesn't work so friend of mine helped me to install it different way by using CygWin. It was +- 6 months ago and now, my colleagues are not able to install it via my simple tutorial (which I wrote when I succesfully installed it) because I completelly forgot it and something is wrong.
Standalone executable still exist, check here

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makar0niasty
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by makar0niasty »

So, there, your amazing Czech set has made me register here, after 10+ years of watching sneakily from the shadows :)
Firstly, thank you! This is what I have been hoping for for years...a full blown 32bpp set, with active development and as a bonus, set in Europe. Also absolutely love the long carriages, they are simply beautiful!

Secondly, (what I hope is helpful), a bug report - it seems that some of the cargo carriages, especially ones added from 0.9.1 onwards, don't seem to correctly refit when used with any economy set (FIRS, AUS, YETI etc). If I understand correctly, something similar was mentioned on your FB page, towards the end of last year. Again, if I understand your answer correctly in comments, it has something to do with the coding of the individual carriages.

Bug description: carriage graphics defaults to a basic locomotive instead, in case carriage is longer than 1 unit, it shows 2 locomotives, overlapping. It seems that basic cargoes like steel/wood are detected (or their variations metal/lumber etc), but anything additional results in the graphics reverting to a default locomotove. Should you release the train from the depot, graphics remains broken.
Behaviour can change depending on the economies (FIRS), with a "Temperate Basic" becoming less affected, while in "Extreme", some carriages become completely corrupted i.e. where not a single cargo can be refitted correctly (best example of that is "Uacs (CSD, CD)")

Bug screen shot: please see attached.


Bug testing:
GRF - removed every single GRF one by one, to finally narrow it down to any economy grf. Tried to move GRFs around, top, bottom, middle etc. Re-downloaded all GRFs fresh. Changed economies. Changed FIRS versions (1/2/3/4) in addition to testing with AUS and YETI. Tested multiple versions of CZTR Cargo set:
-old 1.0 - all fine
-0.9 - all fine
-0.9.1 - buggy
-1.0 buggy

OpenTDD version - Tested on 1.9.1, 1.10.2, JGRs 0.34, JGRs 0.35. Each time CFG file has been deleted, settings folder (i.e. mydocs) deleted as well. Same results have been obtained - i.e. anything from version 0.9.1 remains buggy.

Bug affected - a lot of carriages unfortunately, depending on cargo. Easiest to spot:
-Ot/Jd (CSD) - works for "Metal"
-Wa (CSD/Private) - works for "Coal"
-Uacs (CSD/CS) - does not work in Extreme

Refitting wise, for other cargo, often visible with "plant fibers/Extreme" (also "Z/Ztr/Ztrc" carriages affected) or "building materials/Extreme", albeit depends on carriages.


Unless these appear buggy as are prepared for the upcoming CZTR Industries... (as noticed on your FB page you might release a teaser soon ;) )

Anyway, thank you all again for your hard work! Been watching this thread since the beginning, and will be watching it for years to come :D.
Also, while I have no experience with NML or GRF coding, please do let me know if you need any more information on the above..happy to do more testing as required (since seem to have a bit of free time nowadays...)

m,
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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by Baxtrey »

Is there any way to pass this Patch to a normal newGRF, this patches gives me problem as I progress through the game, but this airport is phenomenal, and I have no knowledge about passing a patch to newGRF or making one.

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Re: [CZTR / 32bpp ] - Czech total replacement

Post by Baxtrey »

Is there any way to pass this Patch to a normal newGRF, this patches gives me problem as I progress through the game, but this airport is phenomenal, and I have no knowledge about passing a patch to newGRF or making one.

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