[NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.2 released 05-17-20!

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by GarryG »

NekoMaster wrote:
25 Mar 2020 06:37
Oh wow, that looks nice
Thanks Pal, all because you kept pushing me many years ago and got me started in doing these projects. Took me a several months or more to get the gist of it way back then, but now if very enjoyable.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by Monty_Montana »

Hi

We are using this NewGRF in multiplayer game server, making use of NRT roads introduced in 1.10 version. This set is really great for that new feature, we would like to thank the creator :D . However, we have observed some issues.

As we expected (due to detailed documentation in first post :D ), highways do not allow houses at their sides. This means if a player upgrades town/city roads to this type, houses will gradually dissapear. Usually players make bulk road upgrade for all town roads, meaning actually the death of the town. We have seen cities shrinking from 100k people to 27k due to these upgrades. This is a potential risk, as a (troll or not-aware-of-this) player can update the city roads to this road kind, making cities dissapear and ruining passenger and mail transport gameplay. This would spoil the game...

I would like to make a question: is it possible to avoid town owned roads to be upgraded to this type? Or at least do not allow players to make it?

Thanks in advance,

Montana.

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by STD »

A wonderful set of different types of roads. Thank you very much for your work :bow: .

What are your further development plans?
Are there plans to create different types of roads for electric transport (trams, trolleybuses)?

Personally, it is very important for me to have all the necessary road types available in the game as in real life :wink: . So while I use other sets, where there is all this.

Regards STD.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by GarryG »

STD wrote:
03 May 2020 04:49
What are your further development plans?
Andrew360 was waiting for release of NML 0.5.0 to add for trams and some other plans I believe he had. (But not heard from him for a while as I also know he busy with work commitments). He understands the coding a lot better then me .. I just stealing his ideas :D

Once I get to see the coding from one of his roads that include the trams then I will add it to my sets.

Curiosity does any one like the single road set I did? As thinking of doing a few more for the dirt/gravel roads as I think they will look good around farms and some industries.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by STD »

GarryG wrote:
03 May 2020 05:10
STD wrote:
03 May 2020 04:49
What are your further development plans?
Andrew360 was waiting for release of NML 0.5.0 to add for trams and some other plans I believe he had. (But not heard from him for a while as I also know he busy with work commitments). He understands the coding a lot better then me .. I just stealing his ideas :D

Once I get to see the coding from one of his roads that include the trams then I will add it to my sets.

Curiosity does any one like the single road set I did? As thinking of doing a few more for the dirt/gravel roads as I think they will look good around farms and some industries.
Your set of roads is very good. Visually it looks great, and functionally it is also very good. Combined with bridges, it turns out great :)) .
I would also like to see different tunnels for different types of roads in the future. But it is as you wish :roll: .
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by GarryG »

STD wrote:
03 May 2020 13:59
I would also like to see different tunnels for different types of roads in the future. But it is as you wish .
Me too .. just haven't got around to it yet. Like do same with the roads as I doing with the AuzRailTracks .. each track set have a different tunnel design and different depot. Not sure when I will do them, but eventually they will be done. :roll:
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by Andrew350 »

Monty_Montana wrote:
22 Apr 2020 11:09
I would like to make a question: is it possible to avoid town owned roads to be upgraded to this type? Or at least do not allow players to make it?
Hi Monty, sorry for the delayed reply, for some reason I stopped getting email notifications on new messages so I had assumed all had been quiet for the last couple months :mrgreen:

To answer your question: Unfortunately I don't believe there's any way to forbid upgrading town-owned roads, nor is there any way to adjust such behaviors depending on town zones or something similar; it is an all-or-nothing setting.

The best I could do is add a parameter to disable the "no houses" rule for highways, which then obviously allows houses to build along them anywhere, but at least it prevents towns from being killed off by griefers online. If that works for you then that is something I can add pretty easily for the next release :)
STD wrote:
03 May 2020 04:49
What are your further development plans?
Are there plans to create different types of roads for electric transport (trams, trolleybuses)?
As Garry mentioned, yes I am planning on including at least a basic tramtype, perhaps an electric and non-electric, and possibly an electrified roadtype as well. I need to get started on that soon!
STD wrote:
03 May 2020 13:59
I would also like to see different tunnels for different types of roads in the future.
Unfortunately at the moment there is no possibility for custom tunnels with NRT. There was a discussion about why here; but the tldr is basically there's no good way to implement custom tunnels that won't end up with a messy conflict between roads and trams and different newgrfs all competing to modify the same sprites. A whole new feature set separate from NRT is being proposed to solve this (and add tons of other cool stuff), but unfortunately that's probably not going to come to life very soon, and any intermediate solution doesn't sound likely.

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by LaChupacabra »

Andrew350 wrote:
09 May 2020 23:50
The best I could do is add a parameter to disable the "no houses" rule for highways, which then obviously allows houses to build along them anywhere, but at least it prevents towns from being killed off by griefers online. If that works for you then that is something I can add pretty easily for the next release :)
Anything You do to prevent this will be good. But the best solution would be to prevent the player from building such a road or converting it to this type if there is a building nearby.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 0.4.1 released 05-15-19!

Post by Andrew350 »

LaChupacabra wrote:
10 May 2020 23:33
Anything You do to prevent this will be good. But the best solution would be to prevent the player from building such a road or converting it to this type if there is a building nearby.
Yes, but unfortunately that is not possible. Adding a setting is the best I can do :)

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.0 released 05-12-20!

Post by Andrew350 »

Aaaand welcome to update 1.0 :)

After three years of off-and-on development I think it's finally time to call this "done", in the sense that it is functionally complete. I think there will still be some improvements made, especially with the tramtype graphics, but I can comfortably call this 1.0 :)

Since the last release I've added quite a few things to flesh out the set. Namely:
  • 4 electrified roadtypes
    These are disabled by default, but can be turned on via parameter if you want to use trolleybuses or the like
  • 2 Tramtypes
    One electrified and one non-electrified
  • New hidden roadtype for use by towns
    This is used in early starts (<1920) to make towns have both sett and dirt roads (to make them a little more interesting)
  • Towns now build different roads depending on the year, and will upgrade over time
  • Climate aware graphics for most roadtypes
  • New old-style streetlamps for early games. Yay!
Also on the list are a few more parameter changes:
  • New parameter to enable houses alongside highways (to solve multiplayer issues as mentioned above)
  • New parameter to allow users to select their preferred speed units to eliminate odd speed limits
  • 'Difficulty' parameter has been changed to affect speed limits only
    Also added a new, lower speed limit option for more challenge
I've also changed the dirt road graphics as mentioned before to allow brown horses to show more clearly, and I think it looks better ;) And there's probably a couple other things I missed.

Download can be found on Bananas or the first post as usual. Obviously I've added and changed a few things in this release so do let me know if you encounter any issues, and as always, please enjoy. :)

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.0 released 05-12-20!

Post by STD »

Great job, Andrew350. It's nice to see an increase in the number of Newgrf's with different types of roads :)) . This allows you to diversify the gameplay when combined with other sets. It's a pity that no one wants to create new sets of trolleybuses... And there are many of them all over the world. But you can do it as it is presented in 2сс trams or 2сс buses, collecting the main models in chronological order. Maybe in the future someone will be interested in this in terms of implementation :wink: .

Regards STD.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.0 released 05-12-20!

Post by Ogre »

Andrew350 wrote:
13 May 2020 06:45
Aaaand welcome to update 1.0 :)
...
Now this is a very nice set - nice drawings and cool features. I wasn't aware of it being available till now... Thank you a lot for your efforts.

So far no issues found exept for the standard asphalt road seemingly being available in pre-1900 as well, even in vanilla OpenTTD without other grfs. I haven't checked yet, if cities use them to upgrade their roads, though.

Two short questions (didn't find any information in the thread) :
  • How about some parameters to define max. speed and introduction dates individually?
  • How about blocking the modern asphalt road from town's use too (realism related question... :oops: )
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.1 released 05-15-20!

Post by Andrew350 »

Ogre wrote:
15 May 2020 17:10
So far no issues found exept for the standard asphalt road seemingly being available in pre-1900 as well...
Whoopsie! That was an oversight on my part, I've made a bugfix release to fix the problem and it's available in the usual places. It's safe to upgrade in existing games if you want to, but it's not necessary; just ignore that road until 1920 ;)

I also thought I found another bug when building drive-through stops on the old town roads, since the road surface always appears as dirt even in the middle of town where it should be sett pavement. After trying to fix it however, I found it wasn't really my fault, but a result of which sprite OpenTTD chooses to display for drive-through road stops. It seems it uses the TOWNZONE_EDGE sprite for this purpose, which in the case of the old town roads is dirt. So there's no way to solve this in the grf itself.

If you find it jarring that your bus stops in the center of town have a dirt surface instead of sett pavement like the roads around it, just upgrade that tile of road to sett pavement yourself to solve the issue. :)

Now about your questions:
Ogre wrote:
15 May 2020 17:10
How about some parameters to define max. speed and introduction dates individually?
This gets suggested quite a bit, but my answer is that it would just be too many parameters. There are a total of 12 buildable road and tramtypes in the set, so a parameter for each for both settings would be 24 parameters to scroll through...not a fun thought. I understand wanting to customize it but that's just a bit too much, so presets are a decent middle-ground solution. If you feel they could use some tweaking you're welcome to suggest alternatives :)
Ogre wrote:
15 May 2020 17:10
How about blocking the modern asphalt road from town's use too (realism related question... )
Is there a reasoning for this? (I just want to understand why you think its a bad thing)
STD wrote:
14 May 2020 07:51
It's a pity that no one wants to create new sets of trolleybuses...
Indeed there seems to be a real lack of content there, but NRT is still young so I'm sure someone will make a set eventually :)

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.1 released 05-15-20!

Post by kamnet »

Andrew350 wrote:
15 May 2020 22:19
Ogre wrote:
15 May 2020 17:10
So far no issues found exept for the standard asphalt road seemingly being available in pre-1900 as well...
Whoopsie! That was an oversight on my part, I've made a bugfix release to fix the problem and it's available in the usual places. It's safe to upgrade in existing games if you want to, but it's not necessary; just ignore that road until 1920 ;)

Actually, paved asphalt roads in most major cities were quite common before 1900. Major cities started using asphalt instead of brick, stone or wood blocks around 1870, and were mostly asphalt by 1900.

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.1 released 05-15-20!

Post by Ogre »

Andrew350 wrote:
15 May 2020 22:19
Whoopsie! That was an oversight on my part, I've made a bugfix release to fix the problem and it's available in the usual places. It's safe to upgrade in existing games if you want to, but it's not necessary; just ignore that road until 1920 ;)

I also thought I found another bug when building drive-through stops on the old town roads, since the road surface always appears as dirt even in the middle of town where it should be sett pavement. After trying to fix it however, I found it wasn't really my fault, but a result of which sprite OpenTTD chooses to display for drive-through road stops. It seems it uses the TOWNZONE_EDGE sprite for this purpose, which in the case of the old town roads is dirt. So there's no way to solve this in the grf itself.
Thank you for the update. I wasn't sure if this behaviour was "created" by the grfs I used, as they have no NRT-support. Now downloading and testing :)
Andrew350 wrote:
15 May 2020 22:19
This gets suggested quite a bit, but my answer is that it would just be too many parameters. There are a total of 12 buildable road and tram types in the set, so a parameter for each for both settings would be 24 parameters to scroll through...not a fun thought. I understand wanting to customize it but that's just a bit too much, so presets are a decent middle-ground solution. If you feel they could use some tweaking you're welcome to suggest alternatives :)
The idea was to adjust the introduction dates to fit with those of the vehicle sets. For the speed limits, I am fine with the options your set already offers. Since I am used to lots of parameters within sets (Finnish Infrastructure is an example), I wasn't hesitant for asking for the "full menu" of parameters. But you are right, too many parameters might be overwhelming. So: how about the introduction dates only?
Andrew350 wrote:
15 May 2020 22:19
Ogre wrote:
15 May 2020 17:10
How about blocking the modern asphalt road from town's use too (realism related question... )
Is there a reasoning for this? (I just want to understand why you think its a bad thing)
The reason is mostly realism related: if towns upgrade to the road type with the second highest speed available, vehicles are virtually zooming through the towns, lessening the challenge for the player to build highways around the cities to speed up the overland road traffic. I interpreted the "modern asphalt road" more as a overland road type than a standard roadtype for all the streets in towns (with 80 km/h or more depending on the speed limit setting)

EDIT: After testing 1.0.1, I found two bugs:
  • the Basic Asphalt Road has lost its speed limit, vehicles are speeding up, no limit in tile inquiry and no limit in tooltip shown
  • the speed limits for the other road types in the menu are displayed with doubled values in the editor
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.0 released 05-12-20!

Post by Monty_Montana »

Hi!
  • New parameter to enable houses alongside highways (to solve multiplayer issues as mentioned above)
Thanks so much!!

Regards,
Montana

Edit: correct quoting.

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.1 released 05-15-20!

Post by Andrew350 »

Ogre wrote:
16 May 2020 07:32
The idea was to adjust the introduction dates to fit with those of the vehicle sets...
Hmm, that sounds like a speed limit issue then ;) All of my roads are compatible to each other, so the the only thing that changes are the speeds. What set(s) are you playing with? I used the base vehicles as a rough guide of when to introduce new roadtypes based on their speed, but obviously NewGRFs can differ wildly from that. Perhaps I can test with different NewGRFs and try to balance things a little differently.
Ogre wrote:
16 May 2020 07:32
The reason is mostly realism related: if towns upgrade to the road type with the second highest speed available, vehicles are virtually zooming through the towns, lessening the challenge for the player to build highways around the cities to speed up the overland road traffic.
True, but that should only be a problem if you start after 1970. Towns in games prior to that will use the older style roads in their centers, and only build the newer ones on the edges as they expand outward over time. That seems fairly realistic to me, but depends on your playstyle I guess. I usually start early (pre-1900) and disallow towns from building their own roads, so the issue may not be as obvious to me :)
Ogre wrote:
16 May 2020 07:32
EDIT: After testing 1.0.1, I found two bugs:
  • the Basic Asphalt Road has lost its speed limit, vehicles are speeding up, no limit in tile inquiry and no limit in tooltip shown
  • the speed limits for the other road types in the menu are displayed with doubled values in the editor
Okay, the first one is definitely my bad, I forgot to reinsert some code when fixing the first bug :lol: I'll fix that soon.

The second one, however, is more interesting. That looks like you found a bug in OpenTTD, so good job there. I'll send in a bug report and let them know :) And thanks for testing this stuff, it helps a lot :)

EDIT: Both are done now, issue posted to GitHub and bugfix release can be found in the usual places. Hope it works this time :)

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.1 released 05-15-20!

Post by Tsylatac »

Andrew350 wrote:
17 May 2020 19:09
Both are done now, issue posted to GitHub and bugfix release can be found in the usual places. Hope it works this time :)
The fruitstand is still serving up version 1.0.1, but I was able to grab 1.0.2 from the first post :) The speed limit bug for Basic Asphalt is indeed fixed, so thank you! I'm loving all of the other 1.0 improvements too.

If I may make a small feature request: Could Highways be (optionally?) made without speed limit on all difficulties? I like the Hard setting (and am considering Harder) right up until about 2075 when Hover Vehicles start showing up :wink: If that's one parameter too many, how about a more expensive "Autobahn" roadtype that shares the Highway graphics but lifts the speed limit?

I'd also love to see the "Old Town Road" (where I take my horse... -drawn vehicles) have its speed limit match the town zone (sett vs dirt), but I'll hazard a guess that's not possible. I will be forever bugged that the town's dirt roads are faster than mine. :shock:

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.2 released 05-17-20!

Post by Andrew350 »

Tsylatac wrote:
22 May 2020 05:46
The fruitstand is still serving up version 1.0.1, but I was able to grab 1.0.2 from the first post...
Huh, that's strange :? I definitely uploaded it, but apparently it got eaten somewhere (damn monkeys!). I've uploaded it again so we'll see if it sticks this time, thanks for letting me know :)
Tsylatac wrote:
22 May 2020 05:46
If I may make a small feature request: Could Highways be (optionally?) made without speed limit on all difficulties?...
Hmm, that's definitely something I can consider, I'll think on it :)
Tsylatac wrote:
22 May 2020 05:46
I'd also love to see the "Old Town Road" (where I take my horse... -drawn vehicles) have its speed limit match the town zone (sett vs dirt), but I'll hazard a guess that's not possible. I will be forever bugged that the town's dirt roads are faster than mine.
Haha, yeah, I knew someone would notice :) You're right though, it's not possible to fix due to it basically being a hack to make it look more interesting. I do wish there was really a way to have multiple roadtypes per town (or speed limits per town-zone), but unfortunately there's no good way to accomplish that :)

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.0.2 released 05-17-20!

Post by wallyweb »

Andrew350 wrote:
22 May 2020 06:37
Tsylatac wrote:
22 May 2020 05:46
I'd also love to see the "Old Town Road" (where I take my horse... -drawn vehicles) have its speed limit match the town zone (sett vs dirt), but I'll hazard a guess that's not possible. I will be forever bugged that the town's dirt roads are faster than mine.
Haha, yeah, I knew someone would notice :) You're right though, it's not possible to fix due to it basically being a hack to make it look more interesting. I do wish there was really a way to have multiple roadtypes per town (or speed limits per town-zone), but unfortunately there's no good way to accomplish that :)
Are you not able to use an Action7/9 to skip the offending speed limit in favour of a lower limit while below a certain date?

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