[NRT] RattRoads - 0.3.0 released 7-21-18!

NekoMaster · PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 10:51 pm

I've heard many names for roads designed for high speed and high capacity. Highway is what is typically used in North america from what I gather.

Also, Autoroute is what Highways are called in Quebec since they're French Canadians. For example, Highway 401 in Ontario which is one of the buisest in Canada turns into Autoroute 20 aka "Autoroute du Souvenir" which I guess translates to Souvenir Highway? I dont know, I'm not french and I didn't do well in french classes either.

wallyweb · PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 11:18 pm

NekoMaster wrote:

I've heard many names for roads designed for high speed and high capacity. Highway is what is typically used in North america from what I gather.

Also, Autoroute is what Highways are called in Quebec since they're French Canadians. For example, Highway 401 in Ontario which is one of the buisest in Canada turns into Autoroute 20 aka "Autoroute du Souvenir" which I guess translates to Souvenir Highway? I dont know, I'm not french and I didn't do well in french classes either.

Remembrance Highway actually ...

NekoMaster · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:55 am

wallyweb wrote:

NekoMaster wrote:

I've heard many names for roads designed for high speed and high capacity. Highway is what is typically used in North america from what I gather.

Also, Autoroute is what Highways are called in Quebec since they're French Canadians. For example, Highway 401 in Ontario which is one of the buisest in Canada turns into Autoroute 20 aka "Autoroute du Souvenir" which I guess translates to Souvenir Highway? I dont know, I'm not french and I didn't do well in french classes either.

Remembrance Highway actually ...

Ahh, interesting, HWY 401 is also know as the Highway of Heros in Ontario. I wonder why its known as Remembrance Highway in Quebec.

wallyweb · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:32 am

NekoMaster wrote:

wallyweb wrote:

NekoMaster wrote:

I've heard many names for roads designed for high speed and high capacity. Highway is what is typically used in North america from what I gather.

Also, Autoroute is what Highways are called in Quebec since they're French Canadians. For example, Highway 401 in Ontario which is one of the buisest in Canada turns into Autoroute 20 aka "Autoroute du Souvenir" which I guess translates to Souvenir Highway? I dont know, I'm not french and I didn't do well in french classes either.

Remembrance Highway actually ...

Ahh, interesting, HWY 401 is also know as the Highway of Heros in Ontario. I wonder why its known as Remembrance Highway in Quebec.

Québec license plates used to have the motto "Je me souviens" which also appears on the province's coat of arms and it translates to "I remember'. In a nutshell, they are remembering their heritage.

acs121 · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:25 am

wallyweb wrote:

acs121 wrote:

Pascal Lambert wrote:

Many thanks to you for this magnificent work !

Please find hereafter a proposal translation so french can enjoy this GRF

Bonjour Lambert,

The translation for "freeway" is somewhat wrong. It's not "route illimitée", which would then not make any sense in english (unlimited roads), but the closest is "autoroute". However, there's not multiple lanes on this road, sadly.

"Highway" is probably the most generic as it can be two lane or multi-lane.
"Freeway" is a highway that has no tolls (It is free

) (Route sans péages?). The usual configuration is multi-lane but OTTD does not support multi-lane. A player must build two or more two lane roads in parallel while using the one-way feature to control direction. Road stops can be used to mimic toll booths.

Maybe "Voie express" would be right ?

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:28 pm

wallyweb wrote:

"Highway" is probably the most generic as it can be two lane or multi-lane.
"Freeway" is a highway that has no tolls (It is free

) (Route sans péages?). The usual configuration is multi-lane but OTTD does not support multi-lane.

NekoMaster wrote:

I've heard many names for roads designed for high speed and high capacity. Highway is what is typically used in North america from what I gather.

So in my experience, in common usage the term "highway" is a more general term that can refer to anything from a two-lane road all the way up to a multi-lane expressway, whereas the term "freeway" is used almost exclusively for multi-lane limited access roads (i.e. only accessible from on/off ramps).

A perfect example of this would be US Route 101 along the Pacific Coast, and I-5 through Los Angeles. One is a meandering, scenic, (mostly) two lane road going from Washington to California, and the other is a mutli-lane behemoth on one of the most congested routes in the nation. Despite the huge difference in design and usage, both could colloquially be referred to as a "highway", whereas only the latter would ever be considered a "freeway".

On another note, I've never considered the term "freeway" to be referring to the fact that its free to drive on, since most roads are free anyway so it wouldn't really make sense

. I've always taken the term to mean that the right-of-way is "free and clear" of local/cross traffic, and therefore has unrestricted 'free' flow.

It should be noted that all of this is based purely on my experience of how people refer to these terms and is probably not correct when reading a textbook definition; also, your mileage may vary depending on your location and local culture.

Don't know if that helps the debate or not, just thought I'd throw my two cents in

wallyweb · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:54 pm

Andrew350 wrote:

Don't know if that helps the debate or not, just thought I'd throw my two cents in

Heh! We haven't even touched on "Interstate" yet. :lol:

By the way, a lot of the Interstate system in the East is composed of highways with the word "Turnpike" in their names. With a very few exceptions, those turnpikes are toll roads. Of lesser, but still important, there are "Thoughways". The moral is don't leave home without a AAA road map.

acs121 · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:09 pm

So i think the translation for Freeway would be "voie express" in French...
Also, do you plan for your GRF to provide electrified roads, Andrew ? They were a few trolleybuses in the US, you know :wink:

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:54 pm

wallyweb wrote:

Heh! We haven't even touched on "Interstate" yet. :lol:

Ah yes, 'Interstate' highways in Hawaii anyone? :lol:

acs121 wrote:

Also, do you plan for your GRF to provide electrified roads, Andrew ? They were a few trolleybuses in the US, you know :wink:

Yes I do, in fact there are still many trolleybus routes in Seattle for example, so I would like to include electrified roads

Diesel Power · **Joined:** Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:05 pm **Posts:** 78

In the UK we would call a freeway, a "motorway". A multi lane highway, a "dual carriageway", and the roads with a single lane in either direction are called "single carriageway". Is there a translation for "English" English, rather than "American" English? :lol:

Great work guys!

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:31 pm

Diesel Power wrote:

Is there a translation for "English" English, rather than "American" English? :lol:

Actually there is :mrgreen:

Well, ok, you'd have to translate it first of course, but 'UK' and 'US' English have their own separate IDs, so it can be done!

kamnet · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:02 pm

acs121 wrote:

So i think the translation for Freeway would be "voie express" in French.:

No, it's "autoroute". (6 years of French language study :))

acs121 · PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:24 pm

kamnet wrote:

acs121 wrote:

So i think the translation for Freeway would be "voie express" in French.:

No, it's "autoroute". (6 years of French language study :))

Study more, 26 years of French language study

In French, "Autoroute" means "highway". One difference between highways and freeways, is that all highways have tolls, meanwhile, freeways don't have any, that's why they are "free". The closest thing is "voie epxress" or "expressway" in English. We don't really have words for that in French, you can still use "Route sans péage" though, unless that wouldn't mean anything...

wallyweb · PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:07 am

acs121 wrote:

kamnet wrote:

acs121 wrote:

So i think the translation for Freeway would be "voie express" in French.:

No, it's "autoroute". (6 years of French language study :))

Study more, 26 years of French language study

In French, "Autoroute" means "highway". One difference between highways and freeways, is that all highways have tolls, meanwhile, freeways don't have any, that's why they are "free". The closest thing is "voie epxress" or "expressway" in English. We don't really have words for that in French, you can still use "Route sans péage" though, unless that wouldn't mean anything...

Les autoroutes de Québec y sont tous sans péage. Québec autoroutes are all toll free, although the oldest ones were originally tolled, said tolls eventually being removed.

acs121 · PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:14 am

wallyweb wrote:

acs121 wrote:

kamnet wrote:

No, it's "autoroute". (6 years of French language study :))

Study more, 26 years of French language study

In French, "Autoroute" means "highway". One difference between highways and freeways, is that all highways have tolls, meanwhile, freeways don't have any, that's why they are "free". The closest thing is "voie epxress" or "expressway" in English. We don't really have words for that in French, you can still use "Route sans péage" though, unless that wouldn't mean anything...

Les autoroutes de Québec y sont tous sans péage. Québec autoroutes are all toll free, although the oldest ones were originally tolled, said tolls eventually being removed.

Eh bien il y a aussi deux-trois autoroutes sans péages en France, vous le saviez ? Non ?
Alright. As i said. Highways may have tolls, freeways NEVER have any.
In France, most expressways don't have tolls, very few have ones (the National 10 for example).
That's one language problem, often we don't really have words to define something. "Route sans péages", "Routes gratuites", "Voie express"...

kamnet · PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 1:19 am

No, all highways do not have tolls.

This is getting obnoxious.

acs121 · PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:33 am

kamnet wrote:

No, all highways do not have tolls.

This is getting obnoxious.

I did not say all highways have tolls. I said they very often have tolls, but if they don't have any it's still a highway. :wink:

Plus, "freeway" cannot be considered as "autoroute" / "highway" : highways are always multi-lanes, while freeways / expressways can be two-laned, i can cite a few examples in France.

NekoMaster · PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:13 am

kamnet wrote:

No, all highways do not have tolls.

This is getting obnoxious.

HWY 407 in Ontario has a automatic toll system that rips people off

Lesarthois · **Joined:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:49 pm **Posts:** 58

kamnet wrote:

No, all highways do not have tolls.

This is getting obnoxious.

The thing is that French high way system is almost entirely toll based, so usually in French, "autoroute" is a toll road.

Personnally (I'm French) I would go with "Autoroute" for roads that goes up to 130 km/h, and "4 voies" (4 lanes) as usually most 4 lanes roads (in reality, 2*2 lanes separated by something) are limited to 110 km/h and are free.
That way you have your difference between high ways and "road with high capacity and higher speed than countryside road but not as fast as highways"

And I think most Frenchmen know the "4 voies" so the translation shouldn't be confusing.

Pascal Lambert · PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:46 pm

acs121 wrote:

Pascal Lambert wrote:

Andrew350 wrote:

Welcome to the development topic for my version of an NRT roadset.

rattroads_0.1.0_source.zip

Many thanks to you for this magnificent work !

Please find hereafter a proposal translation so french can enjoy this GRF

Bonjour Lambert,

The translation for "freeway" is somewhat wrong. It's not "route illimitée", which would then not make any sense in english (unlimited roads), but the closest is "autoroute". However, there's not multiple lanes on this road, sadly.

Woha.
What a long debate for this tiny work in proposing a translation.
Just to explain why I choosed to avoid "autoroutes" :
- In France, the speed (highest) limit is 130 km/h on "Autoroutes". This limit is close to 85 mph used for Modern Asphalt Road.
- We have no roads in France without speed limitations. In Germany, exist "Autobahn" with no speed limitation (on some portions, as far as I know), "Autobahn" may be the best proposal for Freeway, as many people in France associate this with speeding, but this is not a french word and may not be understood far from Germany.
- "Autoroute" mostly matches the idea of at least 2 lanes for both directions, that none of proposed road types reflects.
- "Autoroute" is restricted to mecanically propelled vehicles, that we can not force as far as I know.
- Crossings and direct access are not allowed on "Autoroutes" but are possible with Andrew350's Freeway.
- "Autoroute" is mostly an administrative classification. We have some modern "Voies express" technically better than older "Autoroutes". Best "Voies express" get restricted to 110 km/h anyway.

I agree after reading so many posts that "route illimitée" is unclear. Maybe "Route pour Grande Vitesse" is better ?
Anyway as usualy in open source let the consensus give us the best proposal.

Regards,
Pascal.

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