AuzObjects

[KeldorKatarn]

I would highly speak out AGAINST this if it means becoming incompatible with older versions yet again.
The biggest single problem with these sets is that you can't upgrade them. They are constantly going incompatible. That is the single biggest issue, not the number of menus.

[romazoon]

"becoming incompatible with older version"...well, you are also not expected to update your newgrf in a running game, so your argument is solely based on your own confort...makes it quite a bad argument imho.

because if GarryG find a way that, he believes, is more user friendly he should definitly not abstain because someone want to be able to put the new version in its running game.

Also, i m the one who proposed him someting along those line, but there was a missunderstanding, in fact, i advised him in favor of packaging all or most of his stuff in as few newgrf as possible, not less entry in buying menu (though that part could probaly still get better organised and especially a bit reduced as loading all the auz set now is giving a scary list of entry in the newobject menu). The idea being that the limit on number of newgrf loaded into one game is still a thing to be taken care of. (i know you raised that limit in your patchpack Keldorkatarn, but frankly selecting 200 differents newgrf before starting a new game ?? well with actual limit it s already enough complicated and time consuming...and even more when you have to deal with some sets that require for one them half your slots available (i m exagerating, but it will happen if we let Garry G continue like that), hence why i suggested GarryG to rethink maybe about that.

[KeldorKatarn]

"becoming incompatible with older version"...well, you are also not expected to update your newgrf in a running game, so your argument is solely based on your own confort...makes it quite a bad argument imho.

Uh.. bulls*** maybe? New versions are supposed to be compatible with older ones, so you can load old savegames with the new versions and not be forced to keep tons of old versions installed. That's how almost every newGRF out there works. I don't have all the old versions of MariCo, train sets or stations around anymore, but I can still load 3 year old savegames and the game will just load the new compatible version. By now I have 4 games that used Auz Objects and I have to keep every single version I ever used around because none of them are compatible with eachother and if I got rid of one of them I wouldn't be able to load my old saves anymore.

So sorry but YOUR argument is nonsense.

[romazoon]

oh so you simlpy don t know how bananas works then ? because bananas keep all the older version exactly for what you are mentionning.

got another argument for GarryG not updating his set ?

[Hyronymus]

New versions aren't always able to stay compatible, take for example the introduction of new features. The person to decide on compatibality is the author and not the user. Users may hope that the author takes into account the problems that can arise for users when the new version isn't compatible.

And all of that without any accusation or bad language.

[KeldorKatarn]

I'm a silly goose and my post was removed.

[romazoon]

well i tought it was a debate, since he asked for opinions...you kind of "highly recommanded" something based on an argument i disagreed on...and then i went on about something different, wich kinda reactualized the topic because Garry G missunderstood my suggestion in the first place, this part you ignored apparently...so no need to go upset and say tons of means things

[Pyoro]

As for categories vs GRFs etc: the object menu isn't all that great all around. Personally I don't care whether I have a longer list of categories and a shorter list of objects in that category, or a shorter list of categories and more objects in each category ... it's both not perfect, and there isn't anything a GRF can do about that ^^

Otherwise:

I've had it before with another project I worked on: You are no customer, you have no right to anything. You can ask nicely for things, and you might get them. Post like this and it's VERY likely you'll end up ignored.

^^

All Garry's projects are under GPL. If you don't like what he's doing, it's super easy to do your own thing - NML isn't complex, and objects are just about the simplest thing you can do with them.

Thing is, technically, object GRFs don't really go "incompatible". At worst you get some mixed up object that replaces object X with object Y in a new version. You aren't technically breaking anything. But (at least in my opinion) this is not a good approach to designate compability for object GRFs. Unfortunately, if you stick to a "only compatible if all relevant objects are still functioning as expected after the update" policy you have very little room to do things.

And it's nice that MariCo and etc all are still compatible, but then MB creates a new version once a year or so. Garry does more in a month then the rest of us combined ^^;
Now I'd agree that Auz set here clearly isn't always the best planned and sometimes GRFs changes and then objects go from here to there and then maybe back - that obviously can be confusing But, well, that happens with GRFs that are "in development" and a learning by doing approach. If you start out and don't even know about all the stuff that's theoretically possible you can't predict what might be necessary later on, obviously.

So: deal with it; or wait until he's finished with his GRFs. Then you are guaranteed that they'll stay the same

[GarryG]

When in comes to using newGRF in saved games I suggest you read what kamnet and Quast65 said over in the Australian Railway Stations forum.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76390&start=460#p1206183

Most times I try to stay with the same new grf when updating but not always possible when adding new additions and improving the older graphics,

I used to have each section as separate GRF and was asked to join them to reduce the numbers of GRFs in a game. I did this and to try prevent problems I even gave these a different name so they wouldn't override the older versions for those who still like to use those.

It no sense joining any more sets as I will run out of room for adding new additions .. this happened recently with AuzRoadAndTownObjects .. had to split these again to make room for the new road ideas as some players still wanted the older roads in the set.

The majority of players use OpenTTD 1.8.0 .. or a version before that and I intend to do all coding for those versions.

--------------

When I first started to learn coding a few years ago .. one thing I was told by those who helped me learn and use there projects as a guide .. was to make things how I like them to be and players have a choice like it or lump it.

This I can say for all coders .. no matter how good we try to make our GRF's for the game someone will always complain.

If you don't like the new additions and changes I will not forcing you to use them .. you are welcome to keep using the older versions. Some older versions might not be available on Bananas to down load any more .. but that is your fault for not making back up of all your game files.

So when you click on Check Online Contents and select the file you after the older versions I have put the words "THIS GRF IS OBSOLETE" which will show on the right in the CONTENT INFO menu.

I hope I don't have to change things to much except just addition new additions.

I hope all future releases will be:

AuzFarmAndFencesObjects
AuzRailObjects
AuzFakeRailsAndTrainsObjects
AuzTownObjects
AuzRoadObjects
AuzWaterAndLandscapeObjects

I don't intend to release any more on Bananas for awhile until I think I added all I have got planed.

[kamnet]

Some older versions might not be available on Bananas to down load any more .. but that is your fault for not making back up of all your game files.

Just to clear things up, if you upload a file to the in-game content download system, then it will always be there for saved games to download. In addition, if you stay out of the habit of managing content in the "Downloaded Content" folder, then you won't ever have to worry about losing a version you previously had. Old versions are not deleted by the game as you download. They are, however, hidden from your normal view in order to declutter your NewGRF list. You can enable a flag in the console or your config file to make all versions visible.

[GarryG]

I being Swamped with work at the moment

To go with the culverts romazoon and I are working on I designing some swamps too.

Swamp5.png (93.81 KiB) Viewed 3373 times

Hope to make some muddy ones as well.

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An idea to stop future conflicts with files .. seriously thinking to change the names like I did with Station Sets.

Re-release the objects sets and call them AuzObjects_Part 1, AuzObjects_Part 2 and so on.

All the work I done to date and after finish the few I doing now will be in 4 parts.

Once I release those I will not add any more to them .. Any new Objects that gets made will go into Part 5.

[Silverx50]

some very nice work Garry. really like the look of the swamp.

An idea to stop future conflicts with files .. seriously thinking to change the names like I did with Station Sets.

Re-release the objects sets and call them AuzObjects_Part 1, AuzObjects_Part 2 and so on.

All the work I done to date and after finish the few I doing now will be in 4 parts.

Once I release those I will not add any more to them .. Any new Objects that gets made will go into Part 5.

hmmm, not sure about this. fact of the matter is that you keep creating and improving your work. So sometimes changing the content of a particular grf is just necessary.
if you just keep adding and adding you will create a very bloated group of grfs which may then contain the same things but just a bit different. I'd continue doing what your doing.

[GarryG]

some very nice work Garry. really like the look of the swamp.

Thanks for compliment.

hmmm, not sure about this. fact of the matter is that you keep creating and improving your work

I not sure too .. just that sometimes when add new items and want them to sort in the menu properly often required changing ID numbers and this mucks up some previous versions. Same applies when improving the graphics.

That why thinking about the alternative to bundle up what I done to date and working on now into 4 new sets .. and leave them as they are. When I got a reasonable good collection of new objects put these in a new file.

If I stop trying to make scenario to a realistic theme I wouldn't find any more things to add to objects

If we look at Google Earth and follow the railway line from Newcastle to Maitland they will see several Swamp and Marshlands close to the railway lines and these are what I like to make. The first is between Warabrook and Sandgate, Hexham Swamp, where the big Hexham Grey Mosquitos live, starts not far after Sandgate and goes past Hexham to almost reaches Tarro. There are several more wetlands between Tarro and just past Maitland.

They all have culverts going under the railway lines so hope also make culverts to go with them.

[luxtram]

I would like to have round shores.

[GarryG]

I would like to have round shores.

I'd like that too.

I did one lot making them a bit curvier but some not that easy.

[luxtram]

I did one lot making them a bit curvier

Very nice!

but some not that easy.

Left one has a problem. Not enough round.

[GarryG]

Be a few days now before I get chance do any more .. got some medical appointments today and tomorrow taking up most of the day.

See if can do a few different shore lines so they not all the same.

Cheers

[Quast65]

The right corner looks ok enough. You could flip that one to get the left corner (at least the right shape) Top and bottom look good.

[GarryG]

Still getting swamped and started to cut corners.

I been experimenting with swamps and cutting corners and

"romazoon" been experimenting with river junctions using 2x2 and 3x2 tiles with a new shore line.

This image the top river using the original river curved sections. The bottom 2 are using new curved rivers. Can still curve the river like before, but can also make a better diagonal river.

Also in the image is some swamps and 2 new junctions using 2x2 tiles

Junctions2.png (58.74 KiB) Viewed 3076 times

And here is some new river junctions also using 2x2 tiles.

Junctions3.png (54.97 KiB) Viewed 3076 times

[SimYouLater]

Still getting swamped and started to cut corners.

I been experimenting with swamps and cutting corners and

"romazoon" been experimenting with river junctions using 2x2 and 3x2 tiles with a new shore line.

This image the top river using the original river curved sections. The bottom 2 are using new curved rivers. Can still curve the river like before, but can also make a better diagonal river.

Also in the image is some swamps and 2 new junctions using 2x2 tiles
Junctions2.png

And here is some new river junctions also using 2x2 tiles.
Junctions3.png

Ooh, nice! This will let me make my games a lot more beautiful. Rivers are so boring as it is.