Questions for a new NewGRF

[SimYouLater]

I've got an idea for a town name NewGRF and I've taken a look at some NML tutorials. I have a few questions though.

1) I just plain do not like licenses, they impede the end-user experience for a small benefit of the creator. All I want is for the NewGRF and all derivatives cannot be "unpublished". If I publish a book, I cannot suddenly decide to unpublish it. If I post on Facebook, the record is permanent, even if it is made invisible by clicking "delete". Why should NewGRFs be any different?
1a) I will provide source code but will not require derivatives to do the same.

2) I've looked around, and apparently setting up a system to upload to the #openttdcoop Development Zone is difficult and hazardous to my PC, and will likely require a Linux install. While I want to encourage custom spinoffs (trunks?) to use BaNaNaS, I myself will be sticking to the basic method for windows seen in the tutorial, so how do I make it clear that the only place to download the mainstream NewGRF and/or its source will be on these forums?

[Alberth]

1) I just plain do not like licenses, they impede the end-user experience for a small benefit of the creator.

I don't particularly like licenses as well, but they are required for being able to re-use your work.

If you publish anything without explicitly telling what may be done with it, the default is "nothing can be done". This is a good default. By parking your car on the street, you do not give permission for others to use it. They can look but not touch. Likewise, if you publish an image or a newgrf here without telling that people can use and modify it, it's not allowed. This is what broke the previous 32bpp graphics effort. They had great graphics, but most of the images had no clear license, and the original author could not be tracked down any more. As a result, most of the work could not be used.

In a long term project like OpenTTD, lots of people come and go. Without licenses, new people would not be able to build on work of previous people, they would have to start from scratch again. OpenTTD would still be where it was in 2006 or so. You may want to check the release notes of almost all OpenTTD releases to see what that means.

All I want is for the NewGRF and all derivatives cannot be "unpublished".

I am not sure you can actually enforce that. It is however quite trivial to increase the odds that it happens. Give your work a license that allows sharing with anyone that wants it. The distributed nature of the Internet will ensure that it is virtually impossible to truly erase your work out of existence.

1a) I will provide source code but will not require derivatives to do the same.

The devzone has a convenient (non-authorative) list of useful licenses for this purpose: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/hom ... e#Licenses
It seems that CC-BY-SA or CC-BY fit for you.

While I want to encourage custom spinoffs (trunks?) to use BaNaNaS, I myself will be sticking to the basic method for windows seen in the tutorial, so how do I make it clear that the only place to download the mainstream NewGRF and/or its source will be on these forums?

Starting with a basic setup sounds like a good idea. As you get experience, you can always expand later. As for making clear to everybody what to expect, just tell them. Make a topic in the "Graphics Releases" forum for published versions, and point URLs and links in README files to it. Use the first post as the release page with the newest version, and whatever information you want to share.

[Sylf]

apparently setting up a system to upload to the #openttdcoop Development Zone is difficult and hazardous to my PC, and will likely require a Linux install.

It is not hazardous to anything. You may have to learn a tool or two to get the job done, which you may find difficult, but it really is not. You do not need Linux to use the devzone.
You can even use devzone to take a use of issue tracker only, if you want - you should state that desire when you submit a request to create your project created.
But I highly recommend learning to use the version tracking software, Mercurial, which is the default version tracking system used by the devzone. You will need to follow either this, this or this if you're not familiar with setting up mercurial on Windows.

[SimYouLater]

apparently setting up a system to upload to the #openttdcoop Development Zone is difficult and hazardous to my PC, and will likely require a Linux install.

It is not hazardous to anything. You may have to learn a tool or two to get the job done, which you may find difficult, but it really is not. You do not need Linux to use the devzone.
You can even use devzone to take a use of issue tracker only, if you want - you should state that desire when you submit a request to create your project created.
But I highly recommend learning to use the version tracking software, Mercurial, which is the default version tracking system used by the devzone. You will need to follow either this, this or this if you're not familiar with setting up mercurial on Windows.

I don't remember where I read it, but while looking up license issues and NML tutorials I came across someone that complained that the Mercurial instructions were written incorrectly and had a critical mistake which could corrupt windows. Besides, I'm comfortable with the nmlc command and have no intention of removing access to the NewGRF. It will be downloadable and editable for everyone and BaNaNaS is an option for altered variations, no matter how upset I am over some of the practices I've seen here, so there will be no need for me to personally use BaNaNaS.

[Alberth]

The main benefit as author for Bananas is to give easy access to everybody else. People select newgrfs for scenarios and servers based on availability at Bananas.

As for Mercurial damaging Windows, you'll have to find the message again to get more information. Knowing Mercurial, it doesn't do anything special other than accessing the Internet for the remote repository (ie the Devzone). If that corrupts your Windows, Windows has a serious problem. To a new user however, Mercurial seems to operate very mysteriously, which may also cause confusion and perhaps be interpreted as damage to Windows itself. Given the many million users of Mercurial all around the globe, if there was a real problem with Mercurial, it would have been reported and solved already.

[SimYouLater]

I do have one additional question. I was forced to look at the code of https://github.com/Ketsuban/random-engl ... _names.nml to be able to create a working copy of my town name set, as the NML tutorial was only partially helpful. I have not used any of the names from the Random English Town Names. The only reason I looked was because nmlc kept spitting up errors and so I had to work by example, and admittedly I cannot clearly remember if I copied any of the framework. The source code has been attached for comparison. How would this affect the license, since it is so critical that I know?

[Alberth]

Framework looks pretty much standard, so I wouldn't worry about that. You can have a look at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/townnames which is a lot of town name projects, and they all use the same structure (except the NFO ones of course).

Derived work is more when you copy the data as well, eg if you add new names and keep the old ones.


The "FT01" is a modified GrfId? Changing it is useful to avoid clashes.

[SimYouLater]

Framework looks pretty much standard, so I wouldn't worry about that. You can have a look at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/townnames which is a lot of town name projects, and they all use the same structure (except the NFO ones of course).

Derived work is more when you copy the data as well, eg if you add new names and keep the old ones.


The "FT01" is a modified GrfId? Changing it is useful to avoid clashes.

That's the thing. I followed the tutorial... https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutoria ... ring.3E.3B ...and put FT/01/01 and ended up with this:

ERROR: "FicTownNames.nml", line 2: Expected a string literal of length 4

I've tried various other things for the GrfId - "FTN/01/01", "FTN/01", "FT/01" - but it won't accept anything more than 4 characters.

EDIT: *facepalm* I used the "/" instead of the "\". Thank you for being so helpful despite our differences.

[kamnet]

I've got an idea for a town name NewGRF and I've taken a look at some NML tutorials. I have a few questions though.

1) I just plain do not like licenses, they impede the end-user experience for a small benefit of the creator. All I want is for the NewGRF and all derivatives cannot be "unpublished". If I publish a book, I cannot suddenly decide to unpublish it. If I post on Facebook, the record is permanent, even if it is made invisible by clicking "delete". Why should NewGRFs be any different?
1a) I will provide source code but will not require derivatives to do the same.

I decided several years ago that licenses were too much of a hassle for me. So, whenever possible, I explicitly declare that my works are in the Public Domain and they are free to be distributed and used as anybody sees fit, with or without credit.

Since this isn't always very clear from country-to-country, I back that up by issuing my releases with Creative Common's CC0 Public Domain Dedication and Mark. This is applied to all of my graphics, code, notes and compiled or finished projects.

[supermop]

The main benefit as author for Bananas is to give easy access to everybody else. People select newgrfs for scenarios and servers based on availability at Bananas.

As for Mercurial damaging Windows, you'll have to find the message again to get more information. Knowing Mercurial, it doesn't do anything special other than accessing the Internet for the remote repository (ie the Devzone). If that corrupts your Windows, Windows has a serious problem. To a new user however, Mercurial seems to operate very mysteriously, which may also cause confusion and perhaps be interpreted as damage to Windows itself. Given the many million users of Mercurial all around the globe, if there was a real problem with Mercurial, it would have been reported and solved already.

I can state that I did lose a Windows laptop while trying to set up Mercurial in summer of 2010. Not sure what happened there... I bought a new compture which I am still using 6 years later.