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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:45 am 
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Location: Courbevoie, near Paris, France
paulicus25 wrote:
Unable to get the set to work properly after latest update downloaded.

Did you increment the minimum accepted openttd build number for the set? Or add any dependencies?

The set appears in the grf list and downloads page, can be added to the grf list and loaded into the game and shows as green in the grf loaded page but no vehicles of any kind appear. no busses, lorries or trams. Set worked perfectly fine for me until I updated this morning.

Any ideas?


In which year did you start and did you disable expiring vehicles in the advanced settings ?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:22 am 
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Strange - I've not made any significant changes to compatibility.

What do the parameters look like in your NewGRF settings? I know when I upgrade on an existing installation I sometimes end up with the parameters to enable certain types of vehicles set to false.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:01 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
Take a look at BATS (downloadable in BaNaNaS).
Lots of trams in this one.


Some go up to 2012 IIRC. All used in Britain and I did a heap of research to ensure the stats were correct.

The later ones are not cargo trams as such but industrial light rail for big construction projects (eg cross rail)

Cheers

Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:44 pm 
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I don't seem to have the same issues as paulicus25, but something perhaps a tad strange. I've updated to the latest version and the usual vehicles are still there (currently in December 1946) but no sign of any new trams. Have I missed them? (appeared back in the 1900s and they're all obsolete now) or are they yet to come?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:10 pm 
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For some reason the new parameters for enabling trams get set to "false" when you upgrade - it's worth checking there as a first port of call.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Thanks for that :) yup wasn't turned on. Hadn't seen the extra parameters below (sneaky settings trying to hide ;) )

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Location: Soviet Russia
No station refit for horse trams, is that intended?
Also, 24 tons or 60 passengers for a horse tram seems a bit too much with realistic settings, I would prefer these values to be halved for realism.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Rails are incredibly efficient, as long as your tram route is flat! 60 is however a bit of an extreme example, although that was the capacity I found in my initial research now I start cross-checking I can only find a couple of references to that number in contemporary literature and the odd tram in Australian cities, and 48-52 seems more normal for a two-horse tram used in the UK. So I'll probably knock the capacity down to 48 in a future update. I'd like to do an ID renumbering at some point, so I may as well tweak capacity downward while I'm breaking compatibility.

Not sure why the station refit doesn't work, that's probably an NML accident on my part. Will have to take a look.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Location: Soviet Russia
Hancock Enterprise can transport 22 passengers and it seems very similar in size to horse tram. It would be more realistic if that tram had two wagons maybe, but with current size it's like 60 passengers should be compressed there like fish in a can.
And I really doubt that 2 horses would be able to tow 24 tons of cargo.
I tried to make a grain-food route but found that I cannot refit cargo tram at station. I use JGR patchpack if that matters.
Thank you for making this excellent set and for your attention to early period of transport!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:35 pm 
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From what I've found, a single horse could pull roughly 13 tonnes on rails. So, 24 tonnes would be the load for a pair of heavy draught horses. Seems correct to me :)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Update: It was the parameters. Normally I'm pretty good at checking those every time i update a set. Guess this time i missed it. The previous version of the set i was using was much older and those specific parameters didn't exist at all back then (v. old), so when they were added they went to default, which seems to be 'off'. Perhaps a recommendation to make the default for the parameters be so that everything is turned on? That way it might avoid some confusion for anyone else updating from a much older version?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:47 pm 
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The parameters have defaults to turn vehicles on but for some reason they don't get set properly when you upgrade an existing installation. Not sure why - maybe I'm missing something in NML?

In other news, there's a new update on BaNaNaS. This doesn't change any gameplay (apart from a more typical cargo capacity for the horse drawn tram) or add any new vehicles, but does fix a couple of things that have been annoying me for a while:

  • The vehicle ID scheme was too sparse, causing issues with the articulation settings for newer passenger trams.
  • I still wasn't happy with the shading, especially on curved parts of vehicles.

The first is a boring internal detail, but it's been corrected. Note that this is a breaking change and you won't be able to use the latest update with existing games - I've tried to avoid them where I can, but the internal ID scheme was becoming quite broken and needing a lot of workarounds.

The second is less boring or internal. Every vehicle in the set has been reprocessed using a new technique which works out the lighting normals and calculates shading based on those. IMO it's a big improvement and makes a lot of company colours usable that weren't before. Some "before and after" screenshots:

Image

Image

The extra definition also helps a lot with the 1x view. It's still not at the level of a hand-drawn 1x/8bpp set, but the vehicles look a lot more distinctive and less like a flat blob of company-coloured pixels with the shading updates:

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:37 am 
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Haven't been on this forum in an age, and bloody hell what a pleasant surprise! These look beautiful, you've done a great job on them, bravo!

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