Silverx50's Workshop

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

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Quast65
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

A very nice project to work on if you have some spare time! Looks good!

I have found some pictures of the back view, that can give an idea of how it looks:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... e_1868.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6159/6170 ... ae1a_b.jpg
It looks like a row of arched windows and doors, I just dont know where there are doors and where there are windows nowadays.
Other thing that I cant find is how the second floor of the main building looks from the backside. As there is an arched canopy close to that, I can imagine that there arent any windows or just a few to let light in, probably in the same style as the front.
These are things to check out if you go there again.

One tip, keep in mind that you are going to place platforms next to the backview, those are 3 pixels high. So keep that in mind when drawing in the windows/doors of the backview. Make the doors a bit longer, so that they look good standalone and as well with a platform against them and dont place the windows too low. ;-)
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Quast65 wrote: I have found some pictures of the back view, that can give an idea of how it looks:
thanks for these.
Quast65 wrote:It looks like a row of arched windows and doors, I just dont know where there are doors and where there are windows nowadays.
Other thing that I cant find is how the second floor of the main building looks from the backside. As there is an arched canopy close to that, I can imagine that there arent any windows or just a few to let light in, probably in the same style as the front.
These are things to check out if you go there again
so was there again today, and it's still hard to see really, but from what I could make out it has windows on the back similar to the front.
Quast65 wrote:One tip, keep in mind that you are going to place platforms next to the backview, those are 3 pixels high. So keep that in mind when drawing in the windows/doors of the backview. Make the doors a bit longer, so that they look good standalone and as well with a platform against them and dont place the windows too low.
that is a great tip, hadn't thought about that at all. :D
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

So had a little bit of time and wanted to get started on the other view of Delft station.
it's going to be a station that I'll be seeing a lot of the coming weeks, sadly its not going to make drawing it
much easier.
did this first and putting it here to get feedback on the inital shape of the front and the corner to the side. not sure it's good.
delft questions.png
delft questions.png (5.38 KiB) Viewed 4586 times
also started on the back view of zwolle a little while back and Quast65 mentioned height and it was to low, so added the platform under it.
is this a decent solution?
station zwolle view 1 backview.png
station zwolle view 1 backview.png (6.49 KiB) Viewed 4586 times
cheers
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

started on the back view of zwolle a little while back and Quast65 mentioned height and it was to low, so added the platform under it.
is this a decent solution?
Yes that will be fine, just checked and the backviews of the stations in the Dutch Station Addition Set are done the same way.
the other view of Delft station.
Thats going to be a bit more difficult ;-)
I dont think it is entirely correct right now, what might help is looking closely at the view you have already done and take some (rough) measurements from that.
First of all some startingpoints (note that I use an old version to give the examples, I think those points are still the same, but please doublecheck with a finished version):
I believe the position of these points can be measured and then extrapolated to the flipped view
Example198.png
Example198.png (24.76 KiB) Viewed 4537 times
So those would be roughly here in the flipped view:
Example199.png
Example199.png (21.33 KiB) Viewed 1296 times
Using these points should give you a good start and you can build up the facade (using the measurements of the facade of the already finished view) from there.

Hope this helps and makes it a bit easier to do... ;-)
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Quast65 wrote:Hope this helps and makes it a bit easier to do...
interesting, will give it a try when I get some time.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

So I've been away for a while, but that hasn't meant I haven't drawn anything.
have worked on DLOS in the intervening period and will have new things to show soon on that front.
but wanted to get back to station drawing and make progress on the on the other view of Delft station.
had made a start in November but after the tips I received I've started over and here is what I have so far.
delft other view.png
delft other view.png (5.98 KiB) Viewed 4293 times
Because I'm working on about three differnt kind of projects at the same time this thread gets a bit confusing for me to find everything(critiques and such) relating to each project at times.
So this thread will now be mostly focused on the stations I'm drawing and DLOS work will move to the DLOS thread I created when I released the test file.
And I'll be starting a new thread for The Dutch City set which I'm slowly amassing drawings for.

So all that in the coming weeks, but first try to get this station to a more finished state.
tips and critiques welcome as always.

cheers
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by luxtram »

Silverx50 wrote:So I've been away for a while, but that hasn't meant I haven't drawn anything.
Cheers!
California City Sets viewtopic.php?t=76786
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

EDIT:
IGNORE EVERYTHING BELOW!!!
Didnt realise that the roof goes up and down again, resulting in a bulge that indeed gives the effect of a non-straight line at the tram-side in that direction....
Silly me.... :oops:



Very interesting to come back to this difficult building after taking a long break.....
Looking at the new direction you are drawing and also at some reallife pictures again, I believe that there are some errors in the first direction we have drawn...
Mainly that the side on the tramline is straight, I have come up with this altered version (and also replaced it to make it fit again on 4x6)
newdelft-10Q.png
newdelft-10Q.png (52.42 KiB) Viewed 4198 times
What do you think about this?
It will mean that you have to alter the side facing the busstops a bit for the new direction you are currently drawing.... And there may be an issue with the overhang at the tramline-side... Especially trying to fit that into 4x6 for the new direction.... So you may need to take a bit of artistic liberty with that ;-)

EDIT:
This is what the result is for the altered version:
newdelft-11Q.png
newdelft-11Q.png (53.75 KiB) Viewed 4148 times
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
Screenshots: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56959
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Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

So, ignoring my previous post, lets start over ;-)
tips and critiques welcome as always.
Looks very promising!
I do have some remarks, maybe better illustrated with a picture:
Example225.png
Example225.png (44.29 KiB) Viewed 4144 times
Green-1: The length of the outer left part looks good, the length of the windows/entrance part at groundlevel looks good.

Red-1: I am missing the overhang though... This should make the dark-grey part a bit longer (as I said before the part on groundlevel has the correct length) This does mean that you need to move the entire building a bit, as an overlap in the direction towards the tramline-side may result in glitching if it extends beyond the groundtile. Feel free to ask if you need me to explain it a bit clearer ;-)
This picture may help:
Example226.png
Example226.png (10.26 KiB) Viewed 4144 times
Red-2: Not too sure about this, you may be able to check it in reallife when visiting the station, but the overhang may be wider on the tramline-side than on the busstop side, then the windows at groundlevel are obstructed a bit more from view on that side. As I said, this may not be entirely right, but at least the windows at the point are a bit deeper, this picture may explain a bit more what I mean:
mecanoo22_1.jpg
mecanoo22_1.jpg (96.83 KiB) Viewed 4144 times
Red-3: As you can see in the above picture, the gaps are 2 stories deep

Red-4: Dont forget the gap at the end ;-)

Some things you may already have planned to do (like the deeper gaps), so dont mind those comments if I was too early with those ;-)
Keep up the great work!! :bow:
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
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Scenario of The Netherlands: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=87604

Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
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All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Hi guys,
Quast65 wrote:Looks very promising!
I do have some remarks, maybe better illustrated with a picture:
thanks.

looking at your points.
let's start with the over hang, indeed it is something I've been struggling with.
when doing the other side Luxtram corrected the overhang on that side (do mind that overhang is a lot smaller). stating that because of the viewing angle you wouldn't truly view the overhang in that way.

for this view I was caught in two minds, still create the overhang and thus showing a much smaller (maybe two pixels) over the ground floor or go for the same effect on this side.

as for point 2, indeed they are two stories deep, but didn't get that far yet as I'm as yet unsure if they are placed correctly.
one thing I wanted to discuss before I continue drawing is the length of the building. looking at it i sometimes feel it is still to short and that I should stretch it till the end of the available space.
thoughts? it is also the reason I haven't place the last gap yet.

well I'll await your thoughts before continuing.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

let's start with the over hang
for this view I was caught in two minds, still create the overhang and thus showing a much smaller (maybe two pixels) over the ground floor or go for the same effect on this side.
I have come up with this:
delft%20other%20view_Q-EDIT_01.png
delft%20other%20view_Q-EDIT_01.png (5.49 KiB) Viewed 4084 times
Note-1: I have made the dark-grey part of the side facing the busstops a bit longer and included the overhang
Note-2: I have changed the angle of the line between the facade facing the busstops and the roof a bit to encorporate this extra length
Note-3: The hight of the windows on groundlevel facing the tramline is one pixel lower, giving it just a tiny larger overhang effect.
Note-4: Under the point where the two overhangs meet, the windows on groundlevel have a different direction, allowing for a larger overhang at that point (what I believe to be correct in reallife, but I am not too sure about that)
Note-5: Replaced the entire thing, so it still fits on a 4 tile wide, without glitching overlaps to neighbouring tiles.
one thing I wanted to discuss before I continue drawing is the length of the building. looking at it i sometimes feel it is still to short and that I should stretch it till the end of the available space.
I hope you do mean for the new direction only?
With that I agree, I think you can stretch it so that the windows on groundlevel are almost at the end of the pink tile at the outer right, with the overhang overlapping towards the neighbouring tile (this will not cause glitching if you dont extend it further than the utter most right point).
I think that the part at the end that bends inwards is good for length, it does mean then that you can lengthen the straight part with the two gaps and I think that should be ok....
A little visual aid (I know it is not the right way to take measurements, but its is just to illustrate why I think this):
Example227.png
Example227.png (26.3 KiB) Viewed 4084 times
1. I drew a line from the furthest point to the facade facing the busstops
2. I copypasted that line in the new direction, flipped it and placed it at the facade facing the busstops.
As you can see, this line is longer than what you have drawn, therefor I think you could safely make the straight part facing the tramlines longer (and thus the gaps will be at different places too).

Hope this helps, feel free to discuss ;-)
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
Screenshots: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56959
Scenario of The Netherlands: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=87604

Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
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All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Silverx50 wrote:Hope this helps, feel free to discuss
you've been a great help :bow:
this should help me finish up the base before I start the good fight with the roof all over again.
well hope to have progress to show on friday.

thanks!
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Been a while since my last update. haven't worked on this station that much. been working on some things in DLOS.
but wanted some feedback on overall shape. I closed it up to see what I have so far and now the shaping up of it really begins.
delft other view2.png
delft other view2.png (6.82 KiB) Viewed 3903 times
also modded the old delft station to create the back view. still work needed in chaning some of the ornaments and adding a balcony and such. but just wanted to show my face and that I haven't abandoned the work I started.
oud delft achterkant.png
oud delft achterkant.png (31.15 KiB) Viewed 3903 times
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

Silverx50 wrote:wanted some feedback on overall shape.
[Sarcasm-mode] Ahhh yes! Our most favourite little station! [/Sarcasm-mode] :roll:
This thing is soo difficult... I gave it a try and came up with this:
delft%20other%20view2_Q65edit_01.png
delft%20other%20view2_Q65edit_01.png (9.57 KiB) Viewed 3846 times
But I just cant get the end to look good..... Maybe you are able to have a moment of brilliance, as somehow you managed to do that for the other direction ;-)

EDIT:
I think I know the answer! Right now the side facing the busstop and the side facing the canal are at an angle of 90 degrees. This is incorrect!
The side facing the busstop is actually going more inwards (look at the picture I posted under this edit). By skewing the building that way the end will become narrower, like it should be.
This will again bring me back though to a thing I mentioned before and thought to be wrong. About the first view that has been drawn and the side facing the canal not being straight:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74749&start=540#p1181936 We may need to reconsider this..... And maybe redesign the building a bit, starting with an an outline of the roof, rather than with the walls...
I'll see if I can come up with a basic drawing to show what I mean (I'll edit this edit later on, wanted to post this edit first ;-) )
What do you think?


EDIT2:
This is what I have come up with so far.... How does this look/feel to you?
newdelft-Q65_Edit_01.png
newdelft-Q65_Edit_01.png (12.31 KiB) Viewed 3776 times

Found a handy picture by the way:
New-Train-Station-in-Delft-by-Mecanoo-12.jpg
(193.86 KiB) Not downloaded yet
EDIT: Funny to see that in this mock-up the original idea was to have 4 stories of tainted windows, they actually built a 3 story high version (guess because of budgetcosts ;-) )
Silverx50 wrote:also modded the old delft station to create the back view.
Looks really promising!! :bow:
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
Screenshots: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56959
Scenario of The Netherlands: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=87604

Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
sep 2012, jan 2013, apr 2013, aug 2013, mar 2014, mar 2016, oct 2020
All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Going to be a short answer, but wanted to reply.
I've been think about it as well, I tend to agree with the fact that the bus facing side could come more inward, but I tend to want to go another route.
I think the straightness of the canal side should bot be so straight until the first part that slants towards the back. I think I'm going to attempt to make the canal side slant earlier and then slant even sharper towards the end. creating the shape better.
Not a big fan of changing the other view, as I think it's pretty perfect the way it is.

The second edit doesn't feel totally right to me, it feels to compact.
but I'll see if I get some time this week to get some more work done.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

Well, I think I have another thing that is bothering me....
I believe that the top of the roof is a flat rectangle (or at least a paralellogram shape)... I may be wrong, so I would like your opinion:
New-Train-Station-in-Delft-by-Mecanoo-Q-edit.jpg
New-Train-Station-in-Delft-by-Mecanoo-Q-edit.jpg (290.9 KiB) Viewed 3709 times
Maybe this is what is making me look back to the first view again and again and giving me the feeling that something is not correct (as that view doesnt have that shape for the top of the roof)
I tried to incorporate it in the other view that I had drawn, but I cant get that to look right too, indeed it looks to compact, it doesnt get the more slender/leaner look of the first view.

What do you think?
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
Screenshots: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56959
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Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
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All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Quast65 wrote:I believe that the top of the roof is a flat rectangle (or at least a paralellogram shape)... I may be wrong, so I would like your opinion:
think your right about this. for the first view it would mean the line on the far side would have to become 2 pixels by 2 pixels instead of 3 as it is now to make it look straighter instead of the slight slant it has now.

but back to the view we are talking about now.
delft ideas.png
(1.57 MiB) Not downloaded yet
looking at that image (taken from google maps, sadly its still an old image) I'd like to keep the front a straight line and make the canal side slant inwards.
so I've started with it. either tonight or later this week i'll give a try and incorporate the roof style you created in the first image you posted unto this and see what it looks like.
delft OV new wall.png
delft OV new wall.png (7.83 KiB) Viewed 3697 times
This station is hard and has taken a lot of time. but I really want to get it finished now so that we can move on to other things.
and that model from mecanno....I've been using it since the first time I drew the station, but been so annoyed that there isn't a front view anywhere to be found of it.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

Well, it may need some more discussion before drawing......
Roof being rectangle/paralellogram shaped
The more I look at it and looking at more pictures, the more I think that is correct.
The thing is now, how large should it be and what should be the shape?
I think it is best to compare it with a building close to it, that already is drawn. the old Delft station! I believe it is roughly three times the size (so roughly 3 tiles by 4 tiles), this is why I think that:
Delft_EarthView02.png
Delft_EarthView02.png (814.22 KiB) Viewed 3670 times
Using that as a rough measurement a startingpoint for the walls can be found, the point where the front-facade bends, I believe that is roughly along the middle line of the flat roof (as indicated in the above picture).

I have come up with this for the moment (please note that I am not sure about the shape of the flat roof being rectangular, I think it should be a paralellogram, but I wasted a lot of time already on this, didnt want to restart drawing just yet ;-) )
newdelft-Q65_Edit_03.png
newdelft-Q65_Edit_03.png (7.42 KiB) Viewed 3670 times
Dont mind the end at the right, it is wrong ;-)

Ok, now, why do I think it should be a paralellogram shape, again look at it from the old Delft station. And compare the position and angle of the flat roof to the position of old Delft.
From that you can see that it should be a bit skewed, so more like a paralellogram shape, not rectangular (as old Delft is already rectangular shaped right now in the game).
Also, looking at it from old Delft station, indeed the canal side should slant inwards, you are very right about that!
I'd like to keep the front a straight line
I am sorry, but I dont agree... It may benefit the shape more to also slant that a bit inwards towards the bendingpoint.... Keeping it straight may eventually result in a wider looking end, but also the slants of the canalside and the part slanting even more inwards to the end can be at a smaller angle, which may look better. But to be honest, that may require some trial and error and a couple of redrawings to see what really looks best.....
Another thing that may benefit from a slanted front, is that the see-thru glass panels in front of that (those that will show trains running under the station), will also be at an angle and may show a bit more of the tracks under the station...
This station is hard and has taken a lot of time. but I really want to get it finished now so that we can move on to other things.
Well.... I am afraid it wont be finished all too soon :oops: :|
model from mecanno....I've been using it since the first time I drew the station, but been so annoyed that there isn't a front view anywhere to be found of it.
I thought I send you a link to the mecanoo website a while back, but it may be handier to post some direct links to helpfull pictures:
- Topview of the inside (but that also shows the outerlines of the roof):
http://www.mecanoo.nl/DesktopModules/40 ... 1.jpg&Q=70
- Frontview:
http://www.mecanoo.nl/DesktopModules/40 ... 4.jpg&Q=70
- View from canal-side:
http://www.mecanoo.nl/DesktopModules/40 ... 4.jpg&Q=70
- View from the other side:
http://www.mecanoo.nl/DesktopModules/40 ... 2.jpg&Q=70
- Backview:
http://www.mecanoo.nl/DesktopModules/40 ... 1.jpg&Q=70

Hope these help and I am curious what you think of the rest....
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
Screenshots: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56959
Scenario of The Netherlands: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=87604

Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
sep 2012, jan 2013, apr 2013, aug 2013, mar 2014, mar 2016, oct 2020
All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Silverx50 »

Quast65 wrote:Well, it may need some more discussion before drawing......
That's a lot of pointers, sadly I only see them now....
This is what I've been experimenting with.
delft other view3A.png
delft other view3A.png (8.05 KiB) Viewed 3664 times
still needs work on the far side but I was kinda liking this until I saw all your points.
well let me know what you think works on this version, and I'll see what else can be done
All my projects are GPLv2 License.

Dutch landmark Object Set Workshop viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75071
My stations workshop viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74749
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Quast65
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Re: Silverx50's Workshop

Post by Quast65 »

Wow! I think that looks very good!
Ill take a closer look tomorrow, but I think it can work!

Would be nice though if that flat roof is also a bit more like that one for the other view. Dont think that takes too much adjusting work...
Projects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
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