Silverx50's Workshop

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

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Quast65
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Quast65 »

Leanden wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
Leanden wrote:(I dont know if ive ever seen multi-tile objects tbh)
Objects can range anywere from 1x1 to 15x15 tiles.

Can you give me an example of a newgrf with a multitile object?
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by sanderNL »

I've been following this thread for some time, but I'd like to say that I have great admiration for the drawings you've made, especially the ministries look very realistic, and I'm sure the other things will look great as well. About the Delftse Poort, I would go for 4x4 or maybe 3x3.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Silverx50 »

sanderNL wrote:I've been following this thread for some time, but I'd like to say that I have great admiration for the drawings you've made, especially the ministries look very realistic, and I'm sure the other things will look great as well. About the Delftse Poort, I would go for 4x4 or maybe 3x3.
thanks for the kind words. and I do think I'm going with 4x4 for delftsepoort. but have atleast 4 more buildings from the Hague I want to do before I start with Rotterdam.

another building almost done, maybe some more touch-ups needed, but I'm pretty happy with the result.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Silverx50 »

Last piece of the day,
It's a three part building. the main part on a 3x3 then the roadbridge 1x4 and the extension piece on a 2x2.
its not yet finished but I'm done for the day and will continue on it later in the week. feedback always welcome.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Silverx50 »

Some more buildings close to completion. think they could use some touch ups here and there but would like to hear what you guys would have to say.
must say I find round objects very hard.
feedback welcome as always.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Quast65 »

Absolutely stunning work! :bow:
The only remark I could give (and that is if you are not already working on that), is to give some attention to texturing.
Right now you mostly use the same color for a side of a building.
Take for example the sunny side of the MN-building, you are using only 3 colors for that (I dont take in account the windows and the grey edges of the windows).
A very light grey, an almost white and a darker grey.
Try to play around a bit with adding some more colors that are close to the colors you have chosen. So rather than having an entire line of almost white, break the line up with adding some pixels that are very close to that white.
This will give the buildings a lot softer feeling and they will look a bit less "clean", if you get what I mean ;-) Even small portions can look even better, so randomly put a different grey pixel in the 4 pixel high dark-grey lines and compare it with the original, the difference is very subtle, but it will look/feel better ingame.
This palette might help:
paletteblinking.png
paletteblinking.png (4.82 KiB) Viewed 3694 times
It shows the groups of colors sorted next to each other, but also can help to find some colors that are close to the ones you have used, but slightly different.
For example, take the almost white from the first row of greys, so the second one from the right. You could then use some pixels with the brightest colors from other groups to give it texture (so for example the extremely light pink, or blue or yellow). This can work for all kinds of colors or tints.
Play around a bit with that and see what difference it can make, it makes pixel-art into a true artform ;-)

The same applies to the windows, right now you are using mostly a uniform color per window. Adding a slightly lighter colored pixel to the right-top and a darker one to the bottom-left, can already make a huge difference in appearance.
For buildings with a lot of windows, a glare-effect of the sun over all of the windows of that side of the building can make it even look more stunning. Try to look at some buildings already in the game, some have that effect and it looks great!

And yes, round shapes are extremely difficult in the OpenTTD perspective ;-)

Keep up the great work!! :bow:
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Silverx50 »

Quast65 wrote:Try to play around a bit with adding some more colors that are close to the colors you have chosen. So rather than having an entire line of almost white, break the line up with adding some pixels that are very close to that white.
This will give the buildings a lot softer feeling and they will look a bit less "clean", if you get what I mean Even small portions can look even better, so randomly put a different grey pixel in the 4 pixel high dark-grey lines and compare it with the original, the difference is very subtle, but it will look/feel better ingame.
thanks for the comments. I'll give this a try.
going to revisit most of my buildings and do one more building after finishing Malietoren. Then I go back to coding.

oh and I'll finish up Den Haag CS for you.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by luxtram »

I have just a small suggestion: please keep the floor heights consistent.

Usual floor height seems to be around 7 pixels but I think that it can be varied a little.

6 is probably ok for some not so fancy houses (cheap new apartments, very old country houses etc) and 8 is also ok for some (fancy condos and old houses etc).

To convince you that it makes sense, I modified the Haagsepoort building (floor height 7 pixels) to follow this idea.

Edit: For clarification, these changes are free to use for everyone who finds them useful in any way.
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Last edited by luxtram on 28 May 2016 03:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Quast65 »

I dont agree with luxtram, there seems to be no real agreement on scale in OpenTTD and it all depends on to which buildings you compare it with.
Dont compare skyscrapers with two or three story houses, those scales will almost never match. A good example is that some small houses take up an entire groundtile, while some huge skyscrapers can look very good even though they are just on a 2x1 grid. So, they have different scales, but can look good together in the environment.
EDIT: Another example, some stationsets have platforms that will display waiting passengers. Those passengers are 2 or 3 pixels high, the normal hight of a platform in Openttd is 3 pixels. That would mean that a platform is about 2 meters high if you would compare it to the scale of a passenger.... So even though the scales dont match, they do look good together ;-)
All of this work is based on real-life buildings, getting the look/feel of those buildings without them being extremely out of scale with regard to other structures in OpenTTD is most important in my opinion.
The original building looks/feels a lot better to me, it has most of the details of the real-life building (so for example the number of windows on a side, which makes it recognisable), without it being too large/high to not fit into the OpenTTD environment.
It is all a matter of personal opinion and taste, but for me the original building looks a lot better.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by luxtram »

Quast65 wrote:I dont agree with luxtram, there seems to be no real agreement on scale in OpenTTD and it all depends on to which buildings you compare it with.
Dont compare skyscrapers with two or three story houses, those scales will almost never match. A good example is that some small houses take up an entire groundtile, while some huge skyscrapers can look very good even though they are just on a 2x1 grid. So, they have different scales, but can look good together in the environment.
EDIT: Another example, some stationsets have platforms that will display waiting passengers. Those passengers are 2 or 3 pixels high, the normal hight of a platform in Openttd is 3 pixels. That would mean that a platform is about 2 meters high if you would compare it to the scale of a passenger.... So even though the scales dont match, they do look good together ;-)
All of this work is based on real-life buildings, getting the look/feel of those buildings without them being extremely out of scale with regard to other structures in OpenTTD is most important in my opinion.
The original building looks/feels a lot better to me, it has most of the details of the real-life building (so for example the number of windows on a side, which makes it recognisable), without it being too large/high to not fit into the OpenTTD environment.
It is all a matter of personal opinion and taste, but for me the original building looks a lot better.
Do not listen to him. :) Tiny skyscrapers look ugly and there are already too many ugly dysfunctional skyscrapers in OpenTTD. ;)

To be more serious, I agree to a degree - from some point you have to start making compromises.

My point was that it might make also sense to keep the floor heights (and also level of detail) and loose some floors instead or just make it bigger.

It is of course up to artists how they draw their buildings. Just I would be more happy to see more bigger serious buildings.
Last edited by luxtram on 27 May 2016 17:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Silverx50 »

thanks for the feedback guys. Making it bigger will not happen, as I base all the dutch buildings I've drawn on the scale I did the New Babylon on.
and that building is already huge in comparison with other building sets that are around at the moment. but I feel that it's the right size for my buildings to work on.
looking at your editions that you made they look good, but I kind of feel that I lose some of the look of the actual building as yours just has to few windows in comparison. I do like what you did with the entrance to the building and I might rework that part in the finished version.

thanks again for the input guys.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by luxtram »

Silverx50 wrote:thanks for the feedback guys. Making it bigger will not happen, as I base all the dutch buildings I've drawn on the scale I did the New Babylon on.
and that building is already huge in comparison with other building sets that are around at the moment. but I feel that it's the right size for my buildings to work on.
looking at your editions that you made they look good, but I kind of feel that I lose some of the look of the actual building as yours just has to few windows in comparison.
Well, huge windows were the distinctive feature of the building for me. That way it was easy for me to chop off few floors to keep that look.

Fortunately your work is licensed under GPL. :)
Silverx50 wrote:I do like what you did with the entrance to the building and I might rework that part in the finished version.
Thanks!
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Quast65 »

Do not listen to him. :)
lol :mrgreen:
Well, huge windows were the distinctive feature of the building for me. That way it was easy for me to chop off few floors to keep that look.
Fortunately your work is licensed under GPL. :)
And I must say, good that this inspires you to also contribute with graphics (and indeed, the rework of the entrance is nice)!
Editing existing sets to my personal taste was what got me into drawing and being able to share my work with others (because those sets were GPL) made it even more interesting to do that.
More graphics = more diversity = more fun to play this game!!
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by kamnet »

Quast65 wrote:There seems to be no real agreement on scale in OpenTTD and it all depends on to which buildings you compare it with.
Dont compare skyscrapers with two or three story houses, those scales will almost never match.

All of this work is based on real-life buildings, getting the look/feel of those buildings without them being extremely out of scale with regard to other structures in OpenTTD is most important in my opinion.
Perhaps, then, it's time we start calling for reform in our building designs? It appears to me that a standard of 1.3m/pixel has emerged over the last few years for vehicles. Would this be bad to start applying the same scale for town buildings and objects?
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by luxtram »

kamnet wrote:
Quast65 wrote:It appears to me that a standard of 1.3m/pixel has emerged over the last few years for vehicles. Would this be bad to start applying the same scale for town buildings and objects?
You can not. 2 pixels would be 2.6m and that is normal room height. I would say 7 pixels is roughly 3 meters for some buildings (from ceiling to ceiling, and some people would disagree here :) ). I would also draw 2.8m in 7 pixels etc.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Quast65 »

I am not sure exactly what the development of that vehicle "standard" has been, but I can imagine that it depends on some primary game-defined dimensions.
So for trains the width of the tracks. Based on the standard ingame trackwidth a scale for trains can be calculated. The same for RV's with the width of a road.
Maybe also some game dynamics are important too, so where/when a vehicle will turn or change direction when it follows a road or rail. Not sure exactly how this works, but it might be defined too by some dimensions that could have helped to calculate a standard scale for vehicles.

But this all doesnt apply to non-moving structures, they are not limited by that.
There are some limitations that could help with calculating a standard. First of all, the maximum hight of a building before it will glitch ingame is 255 pixels and also the hight that airplanes fly, so they dont fly through high buildings (but I dont know what hight that exactly is in pixels).
I dont think that the original developers of this game ever imagined that such high buildings that have been developed over the years would ever appear and also reallife structures would ever be converted into OpenTTD.
That makes it difficult to make a standard, so should the scale be calculated by taking the current highest building in the world and then divided by 255 pixels, or by the hight planes fly? What to do if a new building becomes the highest?

I believe that it is not necessary to develop a standard for buildings, I follow a simple rule, if it looks good ingame, its good. It is still a game, where imagination still is important, its not a miniature world based on scales.

Quast65 out *drops microphone* ;-)
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Silverx50 »

Quast65 wrote:*drops microphone*
those mics are expensive......

agree with your point of view. anything else will be to limiting imo.

did some more work on DH CS again. its been a project that hasn't brought me much joy.
DH CS mockup.png
DH CS mockup.png (50.81 KiB) Viewed 3416 times
had to make a few changes to its positioning on the tile because they weren't lining up properly before. changed the big group of glass panes once again. think this will be the final one for now.
set should be a first building - middle -end or just first - end or for a bigger station I will add the extra piece without the clock. but still have to change the roof of those so that its not all the same.
I can't code stations though as those aren't done in NML. So hoping Quast65 can code them and add them to the additions set.
DH overlapsmall.png
DH overlapsmall.png (5.66 KiB) Viewed 3416 times
had drawn this overlap, but as I've learned to code I was thinking this isn't actually possible as openttd looks at the uppermost tile first so did the following instead.
DH CS New overlap.png
DH CS New overlap.png (6.02 KiB) Viewed 3416 times
this should work better I think, but am not sure. have some more interiors to draw for this station.
then I have one more question about the way that I have to supply a station building that has tracks as the interior. do i have to fill the tile with the tracks or supply just the building?
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Quast65 »

then I have one more question about the way that I have to supply a station building that has tracks as the interior. do i have to fill the tile with the tracks or supply just the building?
You dont have to draw the tracks, they are added via code (and thus will also automatically change depending on what trackset you use). Just leave room for them.

You do need to supply the platforms.
But then the cutting up of the station in single tiles is necessary!! Platforms work, so to say, with 2 single tiles that are layed on top of each other, a front and a back part. This is to ensure no strange graphical errors occur when a train enters the tile with the platform (so when correct, parts of the train will be obscured from view via the front platform, if that platform has objects high enough and parts of the back platform will be obscured by the train).

Buildings that dont have visible platforms/tracks inside dont have to be cut up by the artist (the coder can do that), only the tiles with visible entrances/exits need some extra attention to prevent the graphical errors, but that could also be simply done by the coder (the coder has to cut up those entrances/exits so they have a front and backpart).

So, if you are planning to make structures that can have visible tracks inside, it is advisable to start out with single tiles. Those tiles will then be combined and put in the right place via code to get the complete building.
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All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Quast65 »

The windows and the roofs dont seem to match up when the buildings are placed next to each other:
Example25.png
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(Yes, I managed to code them ;-) )
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Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
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All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.
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Re: Silverx50's sets

Post by Silverx50 »

wow that was quick, its cool to see it coded.
I see what you mean. I'll redraw it so that it will fit better.
All my projects are GPLv2 License.

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