SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

I see over 3000 have downloaded your SPI v1 as you have a fairy good range of industries in your set.

Your set a lot like FIRS, so be good if you make a few changers so it also a bit different. Like the Printing Works is a great addition.

Don't worry about power plants, if any one who wants these can add "Oil-Fired Power Plants" or "Pre-Industrial era Houses" as both seem to work ok with your SPI.

What I liked best in your set is the random cargos and hope you re-introduce this idea and add more.

Arable Farms: Wheat, Barley, Oats (Grain), Cotton (Fibre Crops), Sheep (Livestock) and Wool.

Dairy Farms: Milk, Livestock, Corn (grain), Vegetables (fruit).

Mixed Farms: Simular to Dairy Farms .

Or maybe just have the one type of Farm but can randomly produce all the different cargos.

Could continue that idea with other industries such as:

Food Processor: Randomly accept the different types of foods such as livestock, grain, fruit, Fish, and manufacturing supplies.

Factory (not in your version 1): Could represent many different secondary industries and it too randomly accept and distribute different cargos. Just a factory ... could randomy be Furniture Factory, Builders Yard, Machine Shop, Printer Works and some others.

Are you going to add a "Bulk Terminal" or "Port". Not really need both if they too can randomly accept and produce different cargos as they simulate the Importing and Exporting of cargos.

I haven't been playing a lot of the games past few weeks as been trying to build a scenario and been losing hair with problems I been having losing days of work by not being careful what I doing when comes to saving and loading the work I been doing.

Biggest problem you will find is people like me who don't understand how to program and come up with all these ideas. Some might be good and some might be impossible.

Wish you all the best with your endeavours.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

Meant to tell you "Town and Industry - basic industries" seems to work with your SPI v1. Done a few tests and not found any glitches.

It adds the following to the game if places after you SPI: Factory (Metal, Lumber, Plastic and Goods), Farm (Livestock and Grain), Food Processing Plant (Livestock, Grain and Food), Fuel Depot (Fuel Oil), Power Station (Coal), Sawmill (Wood, Lumber and Goods), and adds an extra Brewery, Coal Mine, Forest, Iron Ore Mine, Oil Refinery, Oil Rig, Oil Wells and Steel Mill.

Cheers
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

Thanks, I'll have a look at that...

I've decided to discontinue the randomised products as it causes major problems with the minimap display. It's not possible to track the alternative products, however I may at some point have varied industries where mixed farm A will be livestock and plant fibres while mixed farm B will be livestock and fruit (or whatever combinations). The current nightlies offer more industries than were previously available.

I've been working on the cargo acceptance, stockpiles and production system so I haven't been focusing on new industries but that may well be the next phase.

Once I fix the new industry generation system I'll be looking at that aspect.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by Buragan »

Well, this is certainly good.

I've come here after you posted on one of my topics regarding FIRS and I've been impressed with the developments so far. However, as a fan of ships and (attempting to) build ports, I'm a little sad that the Port and Bulk Terminals of FIRS have been removed. I noticed that someone else mentioned them in a previous port and I'd like to express support for their reintroduction - perhaps even upgrade them a little so that ships can dock at them, similar to an oilrig (or maybe I'm too optimistic :p?)

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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

3iff wrote:Port and Bulk Terminals
I hadn't realised they been removed from FIRS which is a shame. I'm using the FIRS snakebite version 5686 and they are in that.

Like to see a Port Terminal introduced in 3iff's SPI or some one make it a stand alone project that works with what ever industry set we like to use.

I like using SPI v1.0 because of the random cargos produced by farms.

Port and Bulk Terminal or just one called a Port Terminal or something like that is a great industry to the game as whether a ship love, trucks or trains it suits us all.

Whoever introduces this project be great if it was randomised like SPI farms were, or you could go to the Set Parameters and chose what cargos to be handled.

Your idea for it to work simular to the Oil Rigs great idea.

Myself I'm a train lover, and here in Newcastle Australia it great watching the 90 wagon coal trains arriving at the port to unload for the ships to load for other destinations. Off the coast near Newcastle often see lots of ships waiting to enter harbour to load.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

Sorry Buragan, I miss read what you meant about the Bulk Terminal and Port being removed. Thought meant FIRS but you meant SPI. Some times it pays to read articles more then twice.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

Yes, I did remove them. I may well bring them back but that will be for v1.2 when I'll be having a look at expanding the industry set a bit.
I like using SPI v1.0 because of the random cargos produced by farms.
Unfortunately, these are gone for v1.1 as it causes problems when linking to the minimap. I'm disappointed too but they simply won't work as I want with the way ottd works. I may simply increase the number of farm types to provide a bit of variation.

I may release v1.1 fairly soon once I can get bananas uploads to work again... :(
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

Although I used your SPI a few times in games to see what it like I never loaded the mini-map until you mentioned it now.

I know your still learning to make these programs and might throw my ideas out the door, but some times an idea just might help sometimes.

I think forget about randomising but what about a player selects his own cargos from the different farms in the Set Parameters?

I think it be hard to do using only the one file for all your industries, but what if make 2 or more files and a play has to load them all to play the game.

A bit like ECS industries, they separated the different cargo chains.

But think you would only need two files. One for the industries that allow selections of cargos and the rest in a second file.

For instance all the different farm type could go in this file. Each produce 2 maybe 3 products. All farms have their default setting.

Their primary cargo can not be changed. Just the secondary and maybe third cargo that farms could produce be changed by the player.

For instance a Dairy Farm has to produce Milk, but the secondary cargo could be any of the other cargos in the game such as Fruit, Grain, Livestock, sugar or Plant Fibre.

A Arable Farm main cargo be Grain, the other cargo can be Sugar, Livestock or Wool.

A Sheep Farm, that one logical their produce Livestock and Wool, but some I know in my country also grow grain (wheat or corn), Cotton (Plant Fibre).

Also know of some farms growing Pines trees for Sawmills in the area.

Not sure if any of this is of help, wish you all the best on your project what ever ay you decide.

As they say "When you on a good thing stick to it"
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

Interesting idea but I think it's a little beyond my capabilities at the moment.

I know ogfx industries allows customisation over where cargos go for processing, grain can be sent to the factory (regular ottd) or a food processor. It might be possible to do that but I'm taking baby steps with SPI simply because I don't have enough knowledge of NML and Ottd internals...it's a slow learning process.

I will take a record of your ideas (I already have your previous ideas tucked away) and when I embark on the industry upgrade I'll be certain to see what I can do with them...

Appreciated.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

I understand your still learning. Great you having a go. Be like learning to swim .. don't jump into the deep end too soon.

Love to try programming myself but whether an old dog like me can learn new tricks, that another question.

I keep watching this site see how things doing.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

If I can do it then there's no reason why you can't. I basically took FIRS and made some changes of my own...and they expanded.

When you get stuck then you can annoy :wink: people on this forum by asking questions. Everyone is very helpful.

Start small, write a town naming grf. That's how I started. It can be frustrating when it doesn't go right but fantastic when it finally works. There are lots out there, download a small one and pick it to bits.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

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I've been working on one project for months .. designing a scenario but made so many mistakes, but I keep trying. My main problem with is trying to be realistic as possible.

I've tried to use heightmaps, they are good but not enough room to have the suburbs of a city too. If make room for the suburbs the country towns are to far apart for using single tracks and crossing loops like it real.

Last few weeks experimenting with I guess can call them mud maps. Just need to set the towns in good places so they are all there all fit. Lost some work when not watching what I'm doing and when start the blank Scenario sheet, instead of loading the map I been working on I've accidently saved the blank scenario over the top.

I'll use the excuse of old age and having the flue at moment making it hard to think.

I'm determined to finish it even if takes me many more weeks. Good that it keeps the mind active and the hairs grey. Cheers pal.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

I have an idea for a crude fix to a lack of primaries. Firs has a variable, relative_map_size to work out how big the map is, 1 for standard size, 4 for 512^2, I hope.

I'm now trying an experiment to use this to provide a bonus to the prob_in_game: setting at a rate of 10 / relative map size, so a standard map gets a bonus of 10 and a 512^2 map gets 2.5 (actually 2 as it's integers only).

So a normal coal mine might have prob_in_game: 8; , but now on a standard map it'll be 18. So, ideally, these primary industries will have a greater chance of appearing during the game.

I've also reduced the odds of closing a primary (when it's a candidate to be closed) to 25% rather than 50%.

My AI minions are testing it at the moment.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

That not bad idea. Extra industries scattered over the map, make things a bit easier for people like me.

I've often built a rail to a mine and industry and by the time I buy my train and send it on its way, one of the industries has closed before the train arrives.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by Alberth »

The game already handles map size, probabilities are per 256x256 iirc, bigger maps get multiplication factors for the probabilities depending on how often 256x256 fits in the map (and smaller maps get reduced counts).

Reduced closing doesn't matter either, the game tries to keep a balance according to the probabilities, thus if you close fewer, the game will create fewer new ones (of the industry type).

Did you check whether the probabilities that you use match mostly (they are probabilities, it will never be 100%) with the number of industries of each industry type? If not, there is likely something else wrong, eg the terrain.
(You can check the latter by making a completely flat terrain in the scenario editor, and play that.)
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

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Seems strange .. I been playing TTD ever since it was on floppy disc and DOS was the operating system then used the windows version on CD until late last year I accidently came across OpenTTD when looking see if any new versions of TTD was out.

Then early this year I found the forums and started to get involved and finding new and better NewGRFs to add to my games. (That is one of the reasons I not finished a scenario as find a better file to add it). It is marvellous how far it has come from a simple fun and challenging game. Never played it against other players on the internet yet. Depending on how I feel at time of starting it whether I play alone or against some computer players. I haven't read all the forum subjects yet and wonder what else is hiding waiting for me to find.

Hasn't been all that long I ventured into trying to make a scenario and have had the idea of creating a realistic type of game based on my knowledge of railways as I used to work for them for 24 years. I got all my railway books I was given and some older ones given to me by other ex-railway people such as, Working Timetables, Appendixes and others to add to my ideas. Many people on these forums have helped me get as far as I have with the scenarios. All I have to do is finish one.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

Alberth:

I know the map size and game 'interfere' with my targets and that probabilities are just that, probabilities. I generally play/test on mostly flat maps.

I currently test a lot; I have some odd ideas, but there are always enough randoms to make it tricky to know exactly what effects I have.

I'm getting there slowly...now I need to work out where 'there' is.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by Buragan »

Yay, I'm glad to see work on the primary industries :D

Garry, I noticed that you mentioned working on a scenario. I'm just wondering, what program do you use for heightmaps - I have also been intending to design a proper scenario for a few months, although real life has slowed my progress (yay -.-). I did attempt to create a 128^2 map with only OTTD's height tools, but that was only suitable for a few islands, in my opinion.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

3iff wrote:I'm just wondering, what program do you use for heightmaps
Depend how accurately you want your heightmap. You could try http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=27052 They have a good instructions there.

But myself I manually make my map using Google Earth and load the Scenario editor in the game. I started with a randomised scenario map, then manually mark out where I want everything. I work to a scale.

Use the ruler in Google Earth to measure the distance between towns and places you want. Within towns I use a scale of 1 in 25 and between country towns and places I use the scale 1 in 10.

I haven't finished the map I been working on now for a few months as I keep finding better NewGRF files I like to have in my game, so start again. Also a few times I accidently saved over top of my scenario. Now I have the flue so I delayed even more. One day will get it finished. I keep people up to date what I doing at this site http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... =newcastle

There are a few scenarios I have there to download that are incomplete for people to try and give me feed back.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

I've decided to re-add bulk terminals and the port. It looks like they do the same thing...

Now secondary goods can be exported and they are exchanged for useful raw materials and some essential production cargos that are very useful. I'm still fine tuning this as I only got it working yesterday.

It may allow more ships to be used and provide a more useful destination for goods, food and building materials.

Once I get the bananas upload issue sorted out I can release the latest version, hopefully within a week or two.
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