High(er) speed boat set? (hydrolance)

[GullLars]

I've been looking at different boat sets, like Sailing Ships and FISH, but i haven't seen any sets with boats newer than 1975, and only a couple of low capacity hydrofoil/hoover passenger boats with speed over 40MPH. This makes boats mostly unable to compete with trains and planes under any circumstance past 1950-60, unless you use economy and base cost regulations. And still the boats aren't that interresting.

I've been looking into boats for a little while, and came across something interresting, although they don't exist as commercial vessels AFAIK, and may be only pseudo-realistic (a lot of the physics seem sound without having an engineering degree), but i think it may be a fun concept to make a boat set of.

http://www.hydrolance.net/

Basically it takes hydrofoil/catamaran one step further and aims for a hull design optimized for high speed (60MPH+) ocean travel rather than efficient dock space use. In a nutshell it's a catamaran only with the middle being raised well above the water to give clearing in high waves, and the leggs being a lot slimmer and longer to reduce plowing effect and keep the structure planar by being longer than wave span. This design also seems to give really efficient hydroplaning at high speeds, similar to long water skis.

Boats in the set could also include both historic catamarans as well as experimental and futuristic designs based on "hydrolance". I don't know if we'd need permission from them to make the set...

Would anyone be interrested in such a boat set, and/or want to make/work on it?

[colossal404]

The main thing is there aren't any fast ships is a limit in OTTD that enable only 128km/h (~80 mph) max speed for ships. Othervise it's possible.

[GullLars]

I hadn't looked into that. Still, that's a strange limit. There are hydrofoils and catamarans able to exceed that commercially deployed (although they don't operate that fast usually).
Could that limit be circumvented or changed?
I wouldn't think it would be hard to change it in a minor OTTD patch if there was some reason to do so, but then again i'm not a programmer. 128km/h could pose a slight problem to change if limited by deeply embedded coded string lenght though.

Some boats, or a partial set could still be made going say 60-128km/h. Like catamarans, SWATH, hydrofoils, and beginning of hydrolance models.
(i'm Norwegian and as such use km/h, kW, and other SI units instead of HP, feet, etc. but i assumed most people here would be american or english and perfer MPH)

[DJ Nekkid]

As callback36 supports max speed for ships, i would assume one could use just that callback to add higher speeds then the bytesize ones in action0. Atleast for trains one can do that with max number of passengers in a train/engine/wagon.

[Supercheese]

I've been looking at different boat sets, like Sailing Ships and FISH, but i haven't seen any sets with boats newer than 1975, and only a couple of low capacity hydrofoil/hoover passenger boats with speed over 40MPH.

I know FISH has some hovercraft with good speeds and capacities (at least in the nightly I have), which you seem to be aware of, but the cruise liner in Newships comes out in the mid 1980s - it's not that fast though...

I wish we could get some ekranoplan-type ships, but there's that pesky speed limit!

[Terkhen]

There are two issues limiting ship speed. The first one is in the specs; as already pointed you cannot set a speed higher than 80 mph. Currently (at least in OpenTTD) you can overcome this limitation by using CB 36 for speed, which is not limited at all. You can set insane speeds this way (about 16000 km/h IIRC). Since this is an undocumented behaviour of CB 36, it might be properly limited in the future and therefore you shouldn't rely on it.

The second issue is that OpenTTD code is not prepared for high ship speeds. Ships would need a patch similar to r14869 to make higher speeds work ingame; both changes to how ship speed is handled and a new Action0 property.

[DJ Nekkid]

@Terkhen:

The second issue is that OpenTTD code is not prepared for high ship speeds. Ships would need a patch similar to r14869 to make higher speeds work ingame; both changes to how ship speed is handled and a new Action0 property.

Can you do a rough guesstimate on what the max speed actually is? Is that limit (movement/ticks-thingy) to a ship speed factor of 0xFF, or is it 'quite abit higher'? (something like i.e. 1000kmh?)
-DJ-

[Terkhen]

DJ Nekkid: Probably 255 km-ish/h, but I have not actually checked it. When you surpass the max speed allowed ingame the issue is quite noticeable (the displayed speed keeps increasing but the real speed overflows to zero and starts increasing again).

[DJ Nekkid]

A guesstimate as good as any

[GullLars]

The ekranoplan, aka WIG (Wing In Ground-effect) / GEV (Ground-Effect Vehicle) was an interresting concept i hadn't seen. After skimming through wikipedia it seems it's officially classed as a ship.
If the hard speed limit on ships could be raised, they could be very interresting as smaller high-speed shuttles (like A-90 Orlyonok) and larger express bulk cargo transport (like MD-160) on water.

Terkhen, would it a lot of work to raise the ship speed limit in OTTD? And where would i go to petition for it?

EDIT: also, i haven't tested Newships, so i'll look at that.

[Terkhen]

GullLars: I already mentioned the work required to remove the limits. You can write a new thread at the OpenTTD suggestions subforum if you want to (or request that this one is moved there) but most of the people who check that subforum checks this one too. Personally I don't think it is worth the effort: in my opinion 80 mph is already quite big for vehicles that move over water.

[GullLars]

I checked the link you gave to r14869 now, and i can see what it is, but i don't really understand the dynamics between the lines there and the game as a whole. Neither is my intention to learn, at least for now.

If you can use callback36 to get up to 255km/h for boats, that should be sufficient for even the fastest catamarans, hydrofoils and near future hydrolance designs, but it will limit WIG/GEV ships.
A90 had 400km/h cruising speed in 1979, and MD-160 could do 550km/h top speed in 1987. Both figures for ground-effect range (air coushin filght at a few metres above sea, similar to hovercrafts).
I think i'll make a petition for the same change as was made to road vehicles for ships. If it's done the same way, it hopefully won't be that much work, which i hope makes it more likely to be done for upcomming patches. 511km/h max should be sufficient to make WIG/GEV designs relevant and interresting, although 1023 would set the limit to sub-sonic and give more futuristic design possibilities.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to respond here.

[Clemo56]

Another idea i would adore in game, why do all the best Grf creators just magically disappear from the forums after a while :'(

[andythenorth]

Another idea i would adore in game, why do all the best Grf creators just magically disappear from the forums after a while :'(

In some cases, player suggestions start to feel like player demands, even if not intended that way. Destroys all the fun.

[kamnet]

Another idea i would adore in game, why do all the best Grf creators just magically disappear from the forums after a while :'(

And because that is life. OpenTTD is just a game, a way for us to relax and have fun. Sometimes that's a luxury we can no longer afford.