[OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by kamnet »

That one is an actual locomotive and not a tram. But, we already do have steam tram engines from Krauss, Kitson, Baldwin and Beyers Peacock.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

@Sylf: I must agree with kamnet, this is not a tram. Our tracking table is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... li=1#gid=0

@Kamnet - I've been notified, checked it and really found an error in our tracking table. The Electroliner is not a tram either, it goes out. I'll see to find something as a replacement for it.

Don't get me wrong but I'm doublechecking all entries before I start drawing them. I've corrected a few errors in stats so far...

Also, I've found a number of entries with no webpage, how am I supposed to find pictures for reference? :wink:
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

3 more Tatra's...
Brno Tatra KT85D.PNG
Brno Tatra KT85D.PNG (14.47 KiB) Viewed 2238 times
Dresden Tatra T6A2.PNG
Dresden Tatra T6A2.PNG (11.38 KiB) Viewed 2238 times
Manila Tatra RT8D5.PNG
Manila Tatra RT8D5.PNG (14.18 KiB) Viewed 2238 times
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by kamnet »

Voyager One wrote:@Kamnet - I've been notified, checked it and really found an error in our tracking table. The Electroliner is not a tram either, it goes out. I'll see to find something as a replacement for it.
The Electroliner was right there on the edge of the interurbans transitioning from street running trams to lightrail transit. Leaving it out is fine.
Voyager One wrote:Also, I've found a number of entries with no webpage, how am I supposed to find pictures for reference? :wink:
I'll go back through and double check. likely I've got a similar model or the manufacturer tracked on the "Unused" table or in my own list.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

kamnet wrote:Electroliner
I think there is an Electroliner in the 2cc Train set so I think it's a good idea to remove it from here.
kamnet wrote:I'll go back through and double check. likely I've got a similar model or the manufacturer tracked on the "Unused" table or in my own list.
The problem is that I've tried to Google some things but I'm not sure which results are the correct ones. This is especially problematic with old trams with few pictures. Could you please just write the page where you've found their stats, that would be a good start at least. Thanks!
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Transportman »

Voyager One wrote:I think there is an Electroliner in the 2cc Train set so I think it's a good idea to remove it from here.
If it is in there, it must be under another name, as searching the repo and spreadsheet for Electroliner gives 0 results.
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

Maybe it's something very similar then, I really can't remember any more. Electroliner, Silverliner, Electrostar... something... :lol:

Never mind, it's a train, not a tram. :)

EDIT:
Here's something interesting...
Paris Lamm & Francq Fireless Steam Engine.PNG
Paris Lamm & Francq Fireless Steam Engine.PNG (12.06 KiB) Viewed 2165 times
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

Last for today. :)
Cuiaba CAF Urbos 3.PNG
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by keoz »

I'm amazed by how fast you guys are going on with this project. :shock:
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by kamnet »

Voyager One wrote:Maybe it's something very similar then, I really can't remember any more. Electroliner, Silverliner, Electrostar... something... :lol: Never mind, it's a train, not a tram. :)
Then can you still draw it and throw into 2CC Trains? 8)

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

kamnet wrote:
Voyager One wrote:Maybe it's something very similar then, I really can't remember any more. Electroliner, Silverliner, Electrostar... something... :lol: Never mind, it's a train, not a tram. :)
Then can you still draw it and throw into 2CC Trains? 8)
Possiblly. :) We'll still have to see if gaps will appear due to those new regional parameters.
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Development Version v5370-4

Post by kamnet »

Latest Developmental Version: v5370-4, released September 14, 2014.
Master Mechanic Monsieur Foobar notes that this release build includes 21 vehicles, but they are not sorted by date.

PLEASE NOTE THAT DEVELOPMENTAL MODELS ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR GAMEPLAY AND ARE ONLY FOR PREVIEW.
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

Last from this batch...
Istanbul Alstom Citadis X-04.PNG
Istanbul Alstom Citadis X-04.PNG (14.06 KiB) Viewed 2050 times

* goes fishing for some more tram pictures * :mrgreen:
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

Two more...
Moscow KM Tramcar.PNG
Moscow KM Tramcar.PNG (11.26 KiB) Viewed 2031 times
Adelaide H Class.PNG
Adelaide H Class.PNG (11.97 KiB) Viewed 2031 times
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Animal-Drawn Trams

Post by kamnet »

Bringing this discussion over here.
te_lanus wrote:Me hath a question. Would a few horse/mule drawn trains ever be added into the set? (Me No artist so I think .....)

An example: Image
Voyager One wrote:Same answer as for the 2cc Trams - IMO=No.

- The main reason is that they would be so slow, weak, with extremely small capacity, etc., that there would be no practical use of them in OTTD.
- Second reason is that they would probably have to be placed well back in time (very very early 1800s, maybe even before) and no other set goes back so far so you would be stuck with these vehicles that would surely generate nothing but loss.
- Third reason - as Transportman pointed out - these were not really trains. These were more like trams and therefore they don't belong in this train set. :wink:
- And fourth reason, a "realism" reason - how much cargo was actually transported with horse-drawn carriages/trams/trains/whatever on distances longer than very short? These things served for taking cargo from the port onto a city's market, not much more. So, the only things that really transported some meaningfull cargo are... ships. My advice? Get "Sailing Ships" NewGRF. :wink:

I've heard many question like this before and my counter-question is: "What would be the point of these vehicles in OTTD?"

Yes these would be placed back very early in time. So far the only set to implement animal-drawn vehicles is eGRVTS, they're introduced in 1700 with 1-horse (8 MPH) and 2-horse (12 MPH) variations. Passenger tams haul 15 passengers and cargo trams haul 12 mail bags or 12 crates of goods.

I've found them to be very useful in OpenTTD pre-1900 games as they make it cheap and easy to move people and goods through cities to help rapidly build cities up. They're also quite useful for FIRS feeder services in moving smaller quantities of goods towards a central collection point. Most of my vehicles make enough profit to justify their use. Granted I need a lot of them, but they work fine. Their biggest weakness is their lack of tractive effort, they become quite slow on even the slightest gradients. Once the steam-powered trucks come into existence (1875?) I start switching to them even though they're slower than the 4-horse wagons, they make up for it on the inclines and bridges. Still, until buses and trucks get better in the 1920s, they're more than adequate.

We've got plenty of vehicles on our plate for 2CC Trams right now, but I would like to see animal-drawn trams added in a future release. Passenger trams have been built for up to 45 passengers and cargo could carry more as well. The only limit I see is the fact that the "engine" isn't going to improve. You will get 1, 2, 4 or 8 horses. More than that and it's probably ridiculous.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Eddi »

i've always wanted horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set, for combination with any later tram or vehicle set, as most sets will not fill this niche.
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Supercheese »

Eddi wrote:i've always wanted horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set, for combination with any later tram or vehicle set, as most sets will not fill this niche.
That does sound like a particularly good idea.
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

kamnet wrote: they're introduced in 1700
And what else would you have in your game until 1800s? Could you make a meaningful network with these only? Would you make ANY profit at all?

Horse-drawn vehicles are OK but only as a micromanagement support to other (larger, faster) vehicles that are the backspine of any network. It would take a month of game time to deliver cargo at a small distance, what would that do to your vehicle profit?
Eddi wrote:horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set
This is a better idea, adapt for those who really want to mess around with horses. IMO, there aren't many players who would do this.


All in all, honestly, I'm not really fond of these and keen on drawing them, at least for this set. Sorry guys, that's my opinion.
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by Voyager One »

St. Petersburg LM-33 'American'.PNG
St. Petersburg LM-33 'American'.PNG (12.48 KiB) Viewed 1895 times
Toronto Transit PCC A-1 Class.PNG
Toronto Transit PCC A-1 Class.PNG (12.33 KiB) Viewed 1895 times
Toronto Transit PCC A-7 Class.PNG
Toronto Transit PCC A-7 Class.PNG (12.38 KiB) Viewed 1895 times
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Development Discussion

Post by kamnet »

Voyager One wrote:
Eddi wrote:horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set
This is a better idea, adapt for those who really want to mess around with horses. IMO, there aren't many players who would do this. All in all, honestly, I'm not really fond of these and keen on drawing them, at least for this set. Sorry guys, that's my opinion.
There's not many players doing this because a) there's only one set that provides this and b) there's only one industry set that goes back far enough to make it worthwhile (FIRS). Offer more support and more people will take an interest. But if you're not fond of drawing them, that's quite okay. Inclusion in this set or even this round isn't important, as I said before there's plenty to keep everybody busy. :D

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