2CC Trams 0.9b & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8o

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by kamnet »

Arnoud wrote:
29 Jan 2020 14:28
hmm interesting, I tested it in Firs and in that set I had no difference between purchase and refit capacity.

I changed the default cargo from post to steel when playing with the default industries, this seems to fix the problem, I guess the default cargo needs to be in tons as unit weight.

The cargo capacities for different cargoes are all calculated centrally, I dont think it is possible to change the outcome of just 1 specific cargo (livestock).
I'm good with cargo trams showing default weight in tons, I think that is more informative. As for capacities, I don't know what you can do, since I don't know if it's our code or OpenTTD that would restrict that. You might want to ask Andythenorth for some advice.

Comparing these to "stock" wagons in OpenGFX+ Trains, and Road Hogs trams, it's still a bit out of balance. Checking with FIRS 3 loaded, here's what I'm seeing:

Code: Select all

					2CC Trams - Oradea Freight Tram		OpenGFX+ Trains - stock cars	Road Hog trams (various)
	Mail:				40 bags per tram (10 per car)		20 bags per car			44 bags per tram (22 per car)
	Bulk cargoes:			40 tons per tram (10 per car)		30 tons per car			42 tons per tram (22 per car)
	Eng/Farm supplies:		40 tons per tram (10 per car)		30 tons per car			22 tons per tram (11 per car) 
	Livestock:			212 head per tram (53 per car)		25 head per car			42 head per tram (22 per car)
	Plant fibers:			212 bales per tram (53 per car)		25 bales per car		42 bales per tram (22 per car)
	Wool:				212 bales per tram (53 per car)		13 bales per car		42 bales of wool (22 per car)

I haven't looked at prices for all trams yet, but I think the cost of the tram could be doubled or tripled. Buying this tram is $2800 vs. $19000 for a Kirby steam train and one wagon. Trams should be cheaper but I think this is too cheap. Running cost at $11,480 I'm Ok with, but it probably wouldn't hurt to double that one, either.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

LaChupacabra wrote:
24 Jan 2020 21:15
The same problem with incorrect loading concerns four trams:
-Amsterdam...
-Dresden ...
-The Hague ...
-Oradea ...

Prices and costs are completely eyecandy in all cases.
And of course the sound - the same problem as in the case of regular 2cc trams: there is no sound / only splash. It sounds very poor.
I coded the trams according to the documentation provided with the source code on page 1, this documentation did not provide prices and costs.
You are correct that I just made some up quickly and did some copy/pasting.

I prefer spending my time coding rather than thinking about what each tram should cost because people that can code seem in short supply.

If someone wants to volunteer to make a list of more realistic prices and costs I will implement it.

Same goes for sounds; none came with the documentation, I play with sound effects turned off myself, but yes the default sound for trams doesnt sound like trams.. if I am provided with a sound file I will implement it.
I havent really looked into it yet, but I think it is even possible to implement different sounds for different trams.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by kamnet »

Arnoud wrote:
29 Jan 2020 16:31
I coded the trams according to the documentation provided with the source code on page 1, this documentation did not provide prices and costs.
You are correct that I just made some up quickly and did some copy/pasting. I prefer spending my time coding rather than thinking about what each tram should cost because people that can code seem in short supply. If someone wants to volunteer to make a list of more realistic prices and costs I will implement it.
Awesome, this will be something I try to work on this weekend.
Same goes for sounds; none came with the documentation, I play with sound effects turned off myself, but yes the default sound for trams doesnt sound like trams.. if I am provided with a sound file I will implement it.
I havent really looked into it yet, but I think it is even possible to implement different sounds for different trams.
Yes, you can implement different sounds for different trams. Finding good sources of sounds for trams is hard, though, especially free and opens source ones. I'll try to find a generic one we can use, a nice "ding ding" of a gong should be easier to find.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

kamnet wrote:
29 Jan 2020 16:14
Arnoud wrote:
29 Jan 2020 14:28
hmm interesting, I tested it in Firs and in that set I had no difference between purchase and refit capacity.

I changed the default cargo from post to steel when playing with the default industries, this seems to fix the problem, I guess the default cargo needs to be in tons as unit weight.

The cargo capacities for different cargoes are all calculated centrally, I dont think it is possible to change the outcome of just 1 specific cargo (livestock).
I'm good with cargo trams showing default weight in tons, I think that is more informative. As for capacities, I don't know what you can do, since I don't know if it's our code or OpenTTD that would restrict that. You might want to ask Andythenorth for some advice.

Comparing these to "stock" wagons in OpenGFX+ Trains, and Road Hogs trams, it's still a bit out of balance. Checking with FIRS 3 loaded, here's what I'm seeing:

Code: Select all

					2CC Trams - Oradea Freight Tram		OpenGFX+ Trains - stock cars	Road Hog trams (various)
	Mail:				40 bags per tram (10 per car)		20 bags per car			44 bags per tram (22 per car)
	Bulk cargoes:			40 tons per tram (10 per car)		30 tons per car			42 tons per tram (22 per car)
	Eng/Farm supplies:		40 tons per tram (10 per car)		30 tons per car			22 tons per tram (11 per car) 
	Livestock:			212 head per tram (53 per car)		25 head per car			42 head per tram (22 per car)
	Plant fibers:			212 bales per tram (53 per car)		25 bales per car		42 bales per tram (22 per car)
	Wool:				212 bales per tram (53 per car)		13 bales per car		42 bales of wool (22 per car)

I haven't looked at prices for all trams yet, but I think the cost of the tram could be doubled or tripled. Buying this tram is $2800 vs. $19000 for a Kirby steam train and one wagon. Trams should be cheaper but I think this is too cheap. Running cost at $11,480 I'm Ok with, but it probably wouldn't hurt to double that one, either.
Well I do recall reading somewhere that certain cargo classes have different multiplying factors applied to them hardcoded by the game.
I guess most cargo vehicle and train sets bypass this problem by having dedicated vehicles/wagons for these cargo classes.

We are trying to create some very generic trams, I guess that is harder to code than dedicated trams, I will look into it.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

I have another update for the passenger trams.

This fixes the reported bugs in the buy menu of unarticulated trams.
Attachments
2cctrams9.grf
2cc passenger trams version 0.9
(434.8 KiB) Downloaded 91 times
trams-2cc.nml
source code
(444.57 KiB) Downloaded 77 times

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

And a much smaller update:

-fixed London Joh Grantham's steam engine being coded as electric vehicle, this allso means that electrified tramtrack is no longer available on 1800s starts.

-added translations.
Attachments
2cctrams9b.grf
2cc passenger trams version 0.9b
(491.38 KiB) Downloaded 95 times
Last edited by Arnoud on 30 Jun 2020 18:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Voyager One »

Needless to say: THANK YOU!
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

I allso have been working on the cargotrams and will share this build;

-A rework of the capacities of the trams to more realistic numbers; 20 tons for a small wagon, 30 for a large.

Please note that this is still a work in progress and this set still has a lot of issues like;

-eyecandy prices
-cattle class capacity is too high
-liquids trams capacity is probably wrong, havent had another look at them yet.
Attachments
cargotrams8k.grf
2cc Cargotrams version 0.8k
(85.73 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
cargotrams.nml
source code
(73.66 KiB) Downloaded 24 times

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by STD »

Great job done. Thank you very much :bow: .
I don't know where to write the following :roll: . My wishes for the future, if you want to do this-2CC| trolleybuses. You can made a variety of models from different countries of the world, as you have done in other similar sets.
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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by kamnet »

STD wrote:
09 Jul 2020 07:36
Great job done. Thank you very much :bow: .
I don't know where to write the following :roll: . My wishes for the future, if you want to do this-2CC| trolleybuses. You can made a variety of models from different countries of the world, as you have done in other similar sets.
I think Trolleybuses are deserving of their own set, for sure. A few months ago I helped McZapke with organizing a collection of Polish trolleybuses. When I get more time in the future I may expand my research, organizing by both country and manufacturer.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

Having a 2cc trolleybus set would indeed be great.

I only code though, someone else would need to draw them.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by kamnet »

Arnoud wrote:
09 Jul 2020 19:24
Having a 2cc trolleybus set would indeed be great.

I only code though, someone else would need to draw them.
If anybody would like to draw, please feel free to get in touch with me.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

I have another (small) update for the cargotrams.

-added credits to grf description
-corrected liquids trams capacity

Known issues:
-eyecandy prices
-cattle class cargoes' capacity is too high
-this set has 1 articulated liquids tram, its refit capacities are slightly off.

Both 2cc tram sets require openttd 1.10 or higher and you need a grf that provides unelectrified tramtrack in order for the steam and diesel trams to show up (you may allso need to change a parameter).
Attachments
cargotrams8m.grf
2cc cargotrams version 0.8m
(85.8 KiB) Downloaded 36 times
cargotrams.nml
source code
(73.65 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

I figured out what was going wrong with the articulated liquids tram refit capacity, it seems you need to use a multiplying factor of 1.9 for liquids.

-fixed articulated liquids tram refit capacity
Attachments
cargotrams8n.grf
2cc cargotrams version 0.8n
(85.8 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
cargotrams.nml
source code
(73.65 KiB) Downloaded 22 times

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Arnoud »

Another small update, I changed the cargo support of the 2 logging trams (steam/diesel)

- removed support for steel
- added support for food and goods.

They offcourse allso have support for wood, however this cargo is unavailable on many gamestarts.

Edit: added (diesel) to the Lohberg mine tram name, added source code.
Attachments
cargotrams8o.grf
2cc cargotrams version 0.8o
(85.8 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
cargotrams.nml
source code
(73.66 KiB) Downloaded 24 times

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2CC Trams 0.9b & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8o

Post by kamnet »

A minor update and a long time in the making, I've finally gotten around to uploading the latest versions of 2CC Trams and 2CC Cargo Trams to the in-game content download service, with updated info. I'll try to start making this more regular.

As of this time we are no longer publishing to the OpenTTD DevZone service, although the old source code is still available there. We will move to publishing the source code to GitHub in the future. In the meanwhile, if you need a copy of the source code, please contact me via PM.

Also, as of this time we are not able to provide language translation updates, as OpenTTD's translator service is offline. We will look at returning to offering language translations in the future as we get our code back into shape.

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Re: [OTTD] 2CC|Trams - Nightly Betas Now Released

Post by Tsylatac »

Arnoud wrote:
29 Jun 2020 16:45
And a much smaller update:

-fixed London Joh Grantham's steam engine being coded as electric vehicle, this allso means that electrified tramtrack is no longer available on 1800s starts.

-added translations.
Running RattRoads 1.0.2, all 2CC Trams appear to be coded as electric - they're not available in non-electrified tram depots, though seven of the 2CC Cargo Trams are. That aside (and other cosmetic issues like invalid stats/strings in the purchase window), it looks great so far! I love the variety. :D

Beggars and choosers, but: Eventually, would it be possible to purchase (or refit, a la HEQs) certain interurban/LRV type vehicles in coupled form? I know this might make the capacity a bit overkill (side beg: Eventually, can we have cost/capacity balance parameters a la many many other sets?), but... well, for example, Portland MAX almost always runs two-car trains, so it feels odd seeing them singly here when I've never seen them run that way in person :? And all 3 generations of SF MUNI's LRVs could/can run coupled, and do so when capacity and route allow - the USSLRV even briefly ran with four-car consists through the subway.

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Re: 2CC Trams 0.9b & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8o

Post by MLG »

Maybe add purpose text to the trams, eg. urban, suburban, interurban, ligth rail... Or make those ligth rail ones separete set, or change them to railway, it really does not make sence sending 200+ passengers 100+ km/h tram to the inner streets of your cities. But some players do so in my private MP games...
And coupling through refit would be nice, but it will require to research coupling possibilities of EVERY tram here.
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Re: 2CC Trams 0.9b & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8o

Post by kamnet »

MLG wrote:
09 Oct 2020 08:36
Maybe add purpose text to the trams, eg. urban, suburban, interurban, ligth rail... Or make those ligth rail ones separete set, or change them to railway, it really does not make sence sending 200+ passengers 100+ km/h tram to the inner streets of your cities. But some players do so in my private MP games...
And coupling through refit would be nice, but it will require to research coupling possibilities of EVERY tram here.
In my original research and spreadsheets, I actually did note the various couplings of trams. However, at the time it was very impractical to try to make this work with the code that was developed. And that the time we started this, NRT wasn't even a dream yet, so we were trying to squeeze this into the old tram system.

With many years now behind us, and seeing where we've gone and what we can look forward to, I do believe that a new codebase is needed in order to provide more options and more flexibility. I'd like to see different configurations of trams used via livery refits. What I would also like to see would be for graphics to be redrawn for 2x zoom levels. That, however, takes a lot of work. And right now I know Arnoud isn't up for writing all-new code, and I know Voyager One has no interest in drawing 2x zoom graphics, and typically isn't available to draw new stuff. So I believe the goal here would be to finish working out all the bugs and glitches with what we currently have, declaring it to be version 1.0, marking that final, and then start fresh with a new project.

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Re: 2CC Trams 0.9b & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8o

Post by Tsylatac »

kamnet wrote:
09 Oct 2020 10:10
In my original research and spreadsheets, I actually did note the various couplings of trams.
Is more research needed e.g. for trams that have been added more recently to the project? I don't code or draw, but I sure can nerd out and look stuff up. :P

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