2CC Trams 0.9c & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8r

[c933103]

In the interurban section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail article, it mentioned a 1905 interurban which can go up to 100mph and in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Devil_(interurban) it mentioned a 1929 interurban that can go up to 97mph. Should they be included in the pack? The 1929 one seems to overlap with Indianapolis and the 1905 one is apparently rather experimental in nature.

[kamnet]

In the interurban section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail article, it mentioned a 1905 interurban which can go up to 100mph and in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Devil_(interurban) it mentioned a 1929 interurban that can go up to 97mph. Should they be included in the pack? The 1929 one seems to overlap with Indianapolis and the 1905 one is apparently rather experimental in nature.

Both were researched, but ultimately left out because the pack is extremely crowded. And I chose Indianapolis over Cincinnati because Indy is my hometown.

I am actually in the middle of doing even more research on interurbans, and eventually I'll put together everything for a separate American Streetcar & Interurban set. My mind isn't quite made up about having interurbans as trams or as rail. Maybe I can convince an artist to make both versions?

[NekoMaster]

In the interurban section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail article, it mentioned a 1905 interurban which can go up to 100mph and in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Devil_(interurban) it mentioned a 1929 interurban that can go up to 97mph. Should they be included in the pack? The 1929 one seems to overlap with Indianapolis and the 1905 one is apparently rather experimental in nature.

Both were researched, but ultimately left out because the pack is extremely crowded. And I chose Indianapolis over Cincinnati because Indy is my hometown.

I am actually in the middle of doing even more research on interurbans, and eventually I'll put together everything for a separate American Streetcar & Interurban set. My mind isn't quite made up about having interurbans as trams or as rail. Maybe I can convince an artist to make both versions?

Stuff like that is something I wouldn't mind having in my NARS ADDON set, I totally forgot about Interurbans. I guess I can put those under Railbus for sorting purposes?

[kamnet]

In the interurban section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail article, it mentioned a 1905 interurban which can go up to 100mph and in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Devil_(interurban) it mentioned a 1929 interurban that can go up to 97mph. Should they be included in the pack? The 1929 one seems to overlap with Indianapolis and the 1905 one is apparently rather experimental in nature.

Both were researched, but ultimately left out because the pack is extremely crowded. And I chose Indianapolis over Cincinnati because Indy is my hometown.

I am actually in the middle of doing even more research on interurbans, and eventually I'll put together everything for a separate American Streetcar & Interurban set. My mind isn't quite made up about having interurbans as trams or as rail. Maybe I can convince an artist to make both versions?

Stuff like that is something I wouldn't mind having in my NARS ADDON set, I totally forgot about Interurbans. I guess I can put those under Railbus for sorting purposes?

Yeah most of them ran only single cars, but some of them had 2-3 cars strung along as motor-trailer-trailer, motor-trailer-motor, or all motors, and towards the very end you started to see the transition to EMU.

[ChazraPk]

I was just going to point out a little error which I'm pretty sure has existed for the whole of this mod's lifetime, but the Hong Kong tram has the PRC flag on it, instead of the british colony flag which was in place at the time of the tram's inception, or the Hong Kong flag in place right now.
I'm from Hong Kong, just saying xP

[Voyager One]

I know of tha and it's not an error. As in the 2cc trainset, all "flags" are those of contemporary countries, intro year is not considered. We've already had a long discussion about this and this is the best solution.

Just an example: personally I would NOT like to see a Nazi flag because "something was built during Nazi Germany"...

[supermop]

I know of tha and it's not an error. As in the 2cc trainset, all "flags" are those of contemporary countries, intro year is not considered. We've already had a long discussion about this and this is the best solution.

Just an example: personally I would NOT like to see a Nazi flag because "something was built during Nazi Germany"...

Yes but Hong Kong does have a current flag that is different from the PRC flag.

[kamnet]

Most administrative districts have a distinct flag or emblem that represents the area. While Hong Kong may be an autonomous political and government entity, it is still a part of China. It's never been independent.

[ChazraPk]

I know of tha and it's not an error. As in the 2cc trainset, all "flags" are those of contemporary countries, intro year is not considered. We've already had a long discussion about this and this is the best solution.

Just an example: personally I would NOT like to see a Nazi flag because "something was built during Nazi Germany"...

Oh yeah, I realised tha-
WaAaaAaiIIiiTT what's this, a contender has arrived!

Most administrative districts have a distinct flag or emblem that represents the area. While Hong Kong may be an autonomous political and government entity, it is still a part of China. It's never been independent.

CY Leung is the Chinese government's puppet, and the mainlanders own the land, not the people.
People think HK=China, Hong Kong is not a part of China but is owned by China. Showing the PRC flag next to a Hong Kong tram may cause confusion.
Also, what determines when a tram is discontinued? The original double-decker HK trams are still rolling around the streets today and are more common than the newer ones from 2000, even though in the game they go out of service in ~1960...?

[Voyager One]

To recap the flag rules...
1. If there is a modern day succesor of the prevoius country, the flag of the succesor will be used.
2. ONLY if there is absolutely no successor or the modern day successor is not clear, the "old" country's flag will be used.

And to end this HK discussion: HK is internationally recognized as property of China and therefore the Chinese flag is used. Or maybe you'd like also a Russian flag for Ukraine or a North Korean flag for South Korean trains... Just to mention a few "disputed" territories...

P.S. You've said it yourself, and I quote you: "HK is owned by China". The prosecution rests...

[Supercheese]

Well, Hong Kong is allowed to compete separately from China at the Olympic games...

[supermop]

Well, Hong Kong is allowed to compete separately from China at the Olympic games...

Yeah that's sort of the basis for my argument on this as well. For example this picture, with post-1997 flag, at this year's olympic opening ceremony. Did the authors of this set find the use of this flag at the Olympics as offensive as a 2cc set user from HK might find being forced to use the PRC flag?

[Pilot]

Thing is, introducing little variations like this could lead to all sorts, like, Why not have an Isle of Man flag for the Manx Electric Car? After all, the Isle of Man is not a part of the UK, just owned by the Crown.

[ChazraPk]

Thing is, introducing little variations like this could lead to all sorts, like, Why not have an Isle of Man flag for the Manx Electric Car? After all, the Isle of Man is not a part of the UK, just owned by the Crown.

In fact, I would think that the isle of man has even more right than HK to have its own flag there, as it is more independent than HK.

[Voyager One]

I repeat, the rule is the international law. Is HK a sovereign state? Is the Isle of Man a sovereign state? Is Catalonia (Barcelona) a sovereign state? Wales? Scotland? Alaska? Pennsylvania? All no.

According to your suggestion, each US state should be represented by a statal flag, same goes for UK. Where does it end? Do we really need to discuss this all over again? Please, browse trough the 2cc trainset's thread and re-read the already done discussion...

[ChazraPk]

I repeat, the rule is the international law. Is HK a sovereign state? Is the Isle of Man a sovereign state? Is Catalonia (Barcelona) a sovereign state? Wales? Scotland? Alaska? Pennsylvania? All no.

According to your suggestion, each US state should be represented by a statal flag, same goes for UK. Where does it end? Do we really need to discuss this all over again? Please, browse trough the 2cc trainset's thread and re-read the already done discussion...

The states are completely different, I cannot believe your ignorance. I'm discussing this in a constructive matter, and I never asked you to compare it to the UK or to the states. At this point, I don't think it's even worth discussing this because of your ignorance, I would rather create my own mod because I'm done talking here.
Have fun.
*Flips bottle, dabs then leaves room*

[NekoMaster]

Wow, I knew this discussion was going to explode into someone getting upset.

Look, when people start a project like this, they set out guidelines and a structure to work on to make coding and graphics easier. Almost all sets have been this way since I started playing OpenTTD (which around the same time I became a member here).

If your not contributing to a set most people will ignore such demands especially if you come in and be like "DO THIS AND DO IT NOW", that kinda attitude will get people upset.

Though to be honest, when I think of Hong Kong, it feels more like a country in of its own rather then a self governing state of China. Considering its history and ownership perhaps a place like Hong Kong deserves to have its flag recognised.

Sorry if I said anything brash or upsetting, I'm just putting my 2 cents in... also I'm just waking up here.

[ChazraPk]

Wow, I knew this discussion was going to explode into someone getting upset.

Look, when people start a project like this, they set out guidelines and a structure to work on to make coding and graphics easier. Almost all sets have been this way since I started playing OpenTTD (which around the same time I became a member here).

If your not contributing to a set most people will ignore such demands especially if you come in and be like "DO THIS AND DO IT NOW", that kinda attitude will get people upset.

Though to be honest, when I think of Hong Kong, it feels more like a country in of its own rather then a self governing state of China. Considering its history and ownership perhaps a place like Hong Kong deserves to have its flag recognised.

Sorry if I said anything brash or upsetting, I'm just putting my 2 cents in... also I'm just waking up here.

I completely support your opinion, I just kinda tried to discuss it here but I felt it wasn't going anywhere, so I've decided to take matters into my own hands and make a HK tram pack, and I may even continue to go on to make a bus pack
I think my solution is better than just changing the flag, because then I can put in the newer trams, get authentic sound files for them, and these guys don't get pestered by me.
Also, respect to you, NARS is a great NewGRF.

[NekoMaster]

Wow, I knew this discussion was going to explode into someone getting upset.

Look, when people start a project like this, they set out guidelines and a structure to work on to make coding and graphics easier. Almost all sets have been this way since I started playing OpenTTD (which around the same time I became a member here).

If your not contributing to a set most people will ignore such demands especially if you come in and be like "DO THIS AND DO IT NOW", that kinda attitude will get people upset.

Though to be honest, when I think of Hong Kong, it feels more like a country in of its own rather then a self governing state of China. Considering its history and ownership perhaps a place like Hong Kong deserves to have its flag recognised.

Sorry if I said anything brash or upsetting, I'm just putting my 2 cents in... also I'm just waking up here.

I completely support your opinion, I just kinda tried to discuss it here but I felt it wasn't going anywhere, so I've decided to take matters into my own hands and make a HK tram pack, and I may even continue to go on to make a bus pack
I think my solution is better than just changing the flag, because then I can put in the newer trams, get authentic sound files for them, and these guys don't get pestered by me.
Also, respect to you, NARS is a great NewGRF.

Why are you respecting me for NARS? I'm only making an addon.

If anything though, it might be nice if you can use the code of 2cc Trams and 2cc buses to make your Hong Kong Transit stuff. I would do more with Hong Kong but the island is so small and rough in most maps that its hard for me to play in OpenTTD, SimCity, or Cities Skylines

[Voyager One]

@ChazraPk - first of all, thanks for calling me an ignorant. Speaking of ignorance, I still haven't seen your answer to my very simple and straightforward question: is HK a sovereign state according to international law? If it is, I'll be more than happy to add it's rightful flag.