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 Post subject: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:38 pm 
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As mentioned in the LfGRFs topic, I was kinda on search for parking spots that fit with the Japanese theme. I wasn't entirely satisfied with what already exists, so I made some:
Attachment:
jap_parking.png
jap_parking.png [ 11.67 KiB | Viewed 2280 times ]

(cars from ISR so GPL v2 as always. Can I just say how frustrated it was trying to draw them "in reverse"? I ultimately gave up. Jeez, I really suck at this pixel drawing thing)

Anyway, haven't finished coding them yet, mainly because I'm not sure what to do with them. A "Japanese Parking Lots" GRF seems kinda ridiculous even to me. Sure, they also fit with some of the other road sets, and there's really no rule that parking spots have to have the same surface color as roads (well, usually they actually don't) but in a game I like things orderly ;)

Anyone coincidentally working on a Japanese (Road) Objects GRF? Or some other suggestions? Make a parking lot GRF for all popular road sets? ^^;

Otherwise I think they turned out quite OK.
Attachment:
parkparkpark.png
parkparkpark.png [ 43.3 KiB | Viewed 2280 times ]

Attachment:
parkparkparkpark.png
parkparkparkpark.png [ 43.39 KiB | Viewed 2280 times ]

For those not familiar with Japanese parking culture ;) : those in the bottom screenshot are paid ones. They come with some sort of mechanism you drive over that only allows leaving when paid (or maybe it's there to prevent stealing the car, not like I'm an expert either ^^). dunno how common they are outside the large cities, but there are a lot of those in Tokyo.


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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:50 pm 
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You done a good job .. whether interested in more cars I got these from CS Station Set and CS-Stations Extra .. they have car parks that can add to stations and bus stops and they fill up with cars when passengers are waiting.


Attachments:
Cars.PNG
Cars.PNG [ 8.5 KiB | Viewed 2278 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Quote:
Anyone coincidentally working on a Japanese (Road) Objects GRF? Or some other suggestions? Make a parking lot GRF for all popular road sets?

I may be wrong about this, never tried it before, but I think it is possible to make to make a sort of roadset-aware GRF by choosing the standard road graphics as a basetile (the groundsprite).
These should change appearance when a different roadset is loaded. For this GRF you then only need to provide the parkingspaces.
Kind of the same way as stationplatforms work, you only provide the platforms, not the actual rail, therefor the stations automatically adapt to the railset you choose.

To make it interesting, objects can be animated and stationtiles can be made cargo-aware. These in combination with non-animated object- and/or stationtiles could look very nice.....

Ill take a look into this as it may be interesting for the Dutch Station Addition Set (probably only non-animated ones that fit into a Dutch scenario for the moment, as I have never coded cargo-aware stationtiles and it may take a while as there are more things I want to do for that GRF), but I also think you already have enough ideas for a nice stand-alone GRF (maybe also throw in some parkinggarages or entrances to underground parkings)....

EDIT: If this works, you could also consider drawing singlesided parkingspots (so one side of the road parkingspots, other side standard pavement) and parallel-parking spots for more variety.

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:14 pm 
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GarryG wrote:
.. whether interested in more cars I got these from CS Station Set and CS-Stations Extra ..

My problem with those is scale (assuming they are GPL). Frankly, I don't know what to do: the IS cars are notably smaller in my opinion, and they fit better the houses. The CS cars obviously have more variety but they seem a bit too large to me compared to OTTD buildings. They fit better with the Generic Cars size though. So I kinda feel like either way will be a bit odd. I'm open to any ideas or opinions; changing cars around isn't a big deal ^^;

Quast65 wrote:
I may be wrong about this, never tried it before, but I think it is possible to make to make a sort of roadset-aware GRF by choosing the standard road graphics as a basetile (the groundsprite).
These should change appearance when a different roadset is loaded. For this GRF you then only need to provide the parkingspaces.
Kind of the same way as stationplatforms work, you only provide the platforms, not the actual rail, therefor the stations automatically adapt to the railset you choose.

Yeah, but most parking lots aren't exactly like roads, so that'd look weird. Or would need some pixels that overlay over the road graphics, so might as well just draw the entire parking spot.
But it should be possible to check for loaded GRFs so I don't see why it can't just be done "manually". If roadset X is loaded, show parking spots A. If roadset Y is loaded, show parking spots B. And so on.

Quote:
To make it interesting, objects can be animated and stationtiles can be made cargo-aware. These in combination with non-animated object- and/or stationtiles could look very nice.....

I hadn't even considered the station idea you and Garry mentioned, but I don't think I want to get into NFO just for this. But animating them to show sometimes more and sometimes less parked cars might be nice. MariCo for example does it for the ships and it's a nice effect, I have to say. I'll keep that in mind.

Quote:
(maybe also throw in some parkinggarages or entrances to underground parkings)....

If this works, you could also consider drawing singlesided parkingspots (so one side of the road parkingspots, other side standard pavement) and parallel-parking spots for more variety.

Since particularly the Japanese like to squeeze in parking spots everywhere that might make sense, too. I'll also keep those in mind ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:38 pm 
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If you don't want to squeeze in parking garages or tall carousel lifts, smaller basic car lift are common for surface parking lots in both dense and less dense neighborhoods in Tokyo and other cities. (we have a few in Manhattan as well, in places where a surface lot remains because someone is waiting to build a building on it).

The simple kind are similar to the lifts you find in a car repair shop - they lift one car up high enough for a second to park under it. Complex lifts have a steel framework and can stack cars 3-5 levels high. Of course it is a pain for the attendant to get a car down from the top of the stack, but that is just one more reason to take the train rather than drive.

Edit: you can apparently buy the american style for less than I would have expected: https://www.bestbuyautoequipment.com/3- ... oCLqLw_wcB

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:40 pm 
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For parkinglots a whole tile with its own "road" would indeed be ok, indeed most I know have their own tarmac that looks different from the normal road. In that case I dont think you have to worry about checking for what roadset is loaded anyway. Maybe just provide a couple of variants of tarmac. Again for more diversity, but also I think making the GRF check what roadset is loaded may be a bit of a struggle, as there are many roadsets already available, but new ones also keep popping up.... You could keep the check simple and say if Japanese road is loaded choose parkinglot A, if another is loaded choose parkinglot B. But still, in that case, why not just provide both options and let the player choose ;-)


However, I thought you were talking about parkingspots along a road, I see that is not entirely the case. But maybe still interesting to look into (at least for me with the Dutch Station Addition Set), thanks for the idea!

EDIT:
Quote:
The simple kind are similar to the lifts you find in a car repair shop - they lift one car up high enough for a second to park under it. Complex lifts have a steel framework and can stack cars 3-5 levels high.

Those would be cool, especially animated! ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Yeah, but the simple one-direction ones are kinda stupid. If you want the top car, you have to unload all the others first. You'd need to make one of the rotary ones:

I agree, that'd be an interesting addition. Not sure how it'd look in OpenTTD scale though. Might be a bit weird ^^;


And, ah, I get it. You mean there also could be fake roads (or overlapping tiles) that kinda go like this:
Attachment:
parkingspot.png
parkingspot.png [ 2.85 KiB | Viewed 2226 times ]

With the road provided by the road GRF.


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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Quote:
but the simple one-direction ones are kinda stupid. If you want the top car, you have to unload all the others first.

Well, you need to have a very good relationship with the owners of the other cars ;-) However, I can imagine it may work if you and your partner/housemate have their own cars and maybe also some of your children/other housemates. In that case this is a very cheap option to get the maximum out of a single parkingspot (and land could be pretty expensive, especially in dense urban environments).

Quote:
And, ah, I get it. You mean there also could be fake roads (or overlapping tiles)

Well, not the overlapping thing. ;-) That is indeed also an option (I believe GarryG already experimented with those kind of things with his houses/shoppingcenters). But not what I meant, as these require a tile next to the road (meaning that in dense urban areas you have to demolish a lot of buildings, or need to make a house/industry-set with parkingspots that overlap into a road). The good thing about this is that the actual road still can be used by RV's.

What I mean is indeed replacing the roads with fake roads (coded as objects/stationtiles), using the groundtile thing I mentioned before to make them automatically fit in with the roadset you chose.
This would mean that RV's will not drive over them, not always a bad thing, as sometimes I would like to force my RV's to not take the shortest route through a city, but make them use "main" roads, avenues or ring-roads so to say.
The really bad thing I just thought about could be that I believe that most houses will only be built when linked to an actual road, so this could have some impact on the cities (with houses disappearing).... That would need some experimenting...
The safest way to go (so that houses wont be affected) is either placing very small lots or spots (just one or two tiles, so that houses are still linked to an actual roadtile, like the ones in the screenshots you posted), or to have larger parkinglots surrounded by actual roads (and then houses around those).
But this is really up to the player to decide how he/she will solve the problem with possible disappearing houses, I may be overthinking this too much now at the moment ;-)
The very very best thing for this, would be a separate roadtype with parkingspots rather than pavement at the sides....... Lets hope that this will keep on developing ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Yeah, I consider a fake road GRF long ago, mostly for various items you see around streets, or just to have parking cars along the curb, but that causes exactly the problem you mentioned: houses are only build next to real streets. I *think* that once the house is build it won't matter if the street is demolished, but I'm not entirely sure and I didn't like something so ... how to put it? Glitch-y. It's dissatisfying. ^^

I think that indeed makes more sense to leave to a road type GRF. There's a lot that can be done there, that's for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:06 pm 
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But dont let this put you off!
I do think that a GRF that provides parkingspots/lots with loads of modular pieces (so you can make the lots as big or small as you would like) would be an enrichment to the game! Like I said, its up to the player how to handle probable issues with houses.
And providing the graphics in such a way that they may eventually be useable for a roadtype is even handier! So in the graphicssheet, dont provide just the whole thing, but also the separate pieces (cars, the lines that make the spots, the basetiles for the tarmac, lights, etc, etc) This will make it a lot easier to use those graphics for a future roadtype (providing you are considering to use a license like GPL of course ;-) )

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:37 pm 
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I won't, I'm just thinking about what makes sense where, which is kinda exactly what I made the topic for, so thanks for helping with that ;)

For NRT I don't really know enough yet. I mean, I can see that it'd be possible to make a road type with parking spots on the side, but I'm not sure whether they'd all have to be the same, or whether they can randomly load different graphics so some are filled with parked cars and some not. And things like that. In either case I'll leave playing with NRT to other people for now ;)

Stations tiles are mostly interesting for cargo-depended behavior. I think for PAX services that's not too crucial, so I won't be doing that, but I could imagine some neat truck loading tiles for cargo stations that are full or empty depending on whether cargo is there. But that's an entirely different topic again so not for me right now either.

So sticking with objects seems to be reasonable for me. Have them "animated" so they're more interesting, and finish up a snowy-version (if the standard roads don't get snowy, parking lots at least can ^^). And then I'll look at some of the other ideas mentioned here.


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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:47 pm 
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I will be following your progress with great interest!
I have asked a question in one of Supermops threads regarding possibilities with NRT and roadtypes, indeed not to get too much offtopic here ;-)

I look forward to what you come up with and will see if I can think of some things usable for the Dutch Station Addition Set.

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:33 pm 
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A'ight, I got the simple part out of the way:
Attachment:
parkingalot.png
parkingalot.png [ 16.92 KiB | Viewed 2108 times ]

Animated and kinda snow-sensitive (you just get a snow-tile in snow, I'll do a bit more later).

Since I'll keep fiddling with it a bit more I won't throw it on Bananas yet, but if anyone wants to take a look at what's there so far (and maybe check if I've overlooked something, or whether there's something to improve...) here's a version 1:
Attachment:
parkinglots.7z [16.64 KiB]
Downloaded 68 times

Attachment:
parkinglots_source.7z [13.27 KiB]
Downloaded 22 times

GPLv2 as always, license included and such.


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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Pyoro wrote:
but I'm not sure whether they'd all have to be the same, or whether they can randomly load different graphics so some are filled with parked cars and some not.


This actually is possible. NRT can choose graphics for a tile based on a pseudo random switch.

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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Definitely something to keep in mind. Doesn't have to be loads of eye-candy stuff, dirt roads for example might also look quite nice with some irregular features.

Anyway, spend some time putting snow on cars ...
Attachment:
parkalotmore.png
parkalotmore.png [ 36.2 KiB | Viewed 2065 times ]

... also a bit on the ground, but that's barely visible. Snow-on-snow visibility isn't all that great apparently.

Also fixed some drawing-order-issues I hadn't spotted. At least I think I did.

So, version 2 (that was quick!):
Attachment:
parkinglots.7z [24.59 KiB]
Downloaded 66 times

Attachment:
parkinglots_source.7z [25.67 KiB]
Downloaded 32 times


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 Post subject: Re: Parking ... Things
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:58 pm 
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These parking lots could have a lot of options .. they would look great next to Industry and as cargos become available at that Industry the car parking lots could fill with cars (representing employees arriving at work) and when cargo been collected cars leave the parking lots (workers going home) .

Great work.

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