Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Drury »

But EMPs are short-term bursts. Everything electrical gets fried, then an electrician comes with a magical toolbox and makes it work again, good as new.

There's no reason why a post-nuclear war society shouldn't have access to electricity, besides the fact that at first there's not enough populace to make it worthwhile.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by DanMacK »

Well, the big problem with electricity is the generation of it. Hydro-electric (water) is an option, but oil, gas and coal infrastructure would be pretty much out of the question.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Redirect Left »

Andrew350 wrote:Awesome, I was waiting for someone to make a town names grf! :D
If you'd like, I can keep it updated for inclusion in the set as a whole? Come up with suitable names to expand upon it?
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Need some good tested AI? - Unofficial AI Tester, list of good stuff & thread is here.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Drury »

A lot of the issues discussed here have been already solved in the Fallout series.

literally so ill i cant type

EDIT: K guys I'm back from the dead. Hopefully I can't be ill as a zombie. Now for Fallout explanation of things:

As for vehicles - most of the pre-war world ran on nuclear power due to there being so few fossil fuel deposits left. This included vehicles as well, nuclear cars were common and almost never needed refuelling. Some remained relatively functional after the war.

In New Vegas, Hoover Dam remains functional as the major source of energy. The premise of the game is two radically different factions fighting over the dam.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by oftcrash »

I think its a question of when the world fell. Does it fail tomorrow and this is 50 years in the future? Does it fall 20 years from now and this is 20 years after that? Or maybe it fell in the 1960s or 80s, so the technology peaked at that point and is only starting to recover. That would drive the direction of salvaged vehicles, what sort of resources are available, etc.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by DanMacK »

well Andrew says the grf starts in 2077 so Id vo with currentish technology...
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Twyster »

Drury wrote:A lot of the issues discussed here have been already solved in the Fallout series.

literally so ill i cant type

EDIT: K guys I'm back from the dead. Hopefully I can't be ill as a zombie. Now for Fallout explanation of things:

As for vehicles - most of the pre-war world ran on nuclear power due to there being so few fossil fuel deposits left. This included vehicles as well, nuclear cars were common and almost never needed refuelling. Some remained relatively functional after the war.

In New Vegas, Hoover Dam remains functional as the major source of energy. The premise of the game is two radically different factions fighting over the dam.
What is that attachment grf? I can't get it to show up in OpenTTD...
oftcrash wrote:I think its a question of when the world fell. Does it fail tomorrow and this is 50 years in the future? Does it fall 20 years from now and this is 20 years after that? Or maybe it fell in the 1960s or 80s, so the technology peaked at that point and is only starting to recover. That would drive the direction of salvaged vehicles, what sort of resources are available, etc.
DanMacK wrote:well Andrew says the grf starts in 2077 so Id vo with currentish technology...
Maybe this set should be a generic "post-apocalyptic" set?

This should help for ideas: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vehicle

RVs
Pack animals (used in Revolution)
Steam (mentioned in Fallout 2 IIRC)
Atomic (used in Fallout 3 and New Vegas) (Truck, City Liner, Transport Truck, Road Tractor, Bus, Tank Truck and Nuka-Cola Truck)

Trains
Steam (used in Revolution)
Diesel (used in Fallout: New Vegas) (Train Engine)
Monorail (used in Fallout 3, New Vegas and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel) (New Vegas Monorail, Secret Vault Monorail and CMR Monorail)

Metro
Electric (used in Fallout 3, the unrelated Metro 2033 and Metro Last Light, as well as the unrelated UnderRail) (Metro Car)

Aircraft
Airships (used in Fallout Tactics) (Airship)
Prop planes (used in Fallout: New Vegas) (B-29 Superfortress, Transport Plane)
Jet planes (Used if various Fallout games) (Chinese Bomber, Hellion, Jet plane)

Ships
Ships (used in Waterworld)
Tugboats (used in Fallout: New Vegas) (Tugboat)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Andrew350 »

Jeez, I can't keep up with you guys :P Sorry for the long posts...

The set is intended to be started in the year 2077, not long after the war, but long after many natural resources (like oil) will have fallen out of use. This doesn't mean they don't exist in small quantities though, so it leaves those possibilities open to an extent.

Electricity would probably be unlikely at game start, but once the world develops a bit, I think it's not inconceivable to have some electricity flowing, at least enough to run electric vehicles. I definitely think some form of metro vehicles will be included.

Ships I think will be easy to come by, but in the beginning at least, limited to small boats. Eventually larger ships will become available as they're patched up, but it will probably be fairly late until "new" ships come onto the scene.

Aircraft I think will be nearly useless early on, but perhaps as time goes on they will become more reliable as new ones are built.
Redirect Left wrote:
Andrew350 wrote:Awesome, I was waiting for someone to make a town names grf! :D
If you'd like, I can keep it updated for inclusion in the set as a whole? Come up with suitable names to expand upon it?
I don't know that it can be included as part of the main grf, I think town name grfs have to be separate (I could be wrong, though). In any case, it's probably better to keep it separate anyway, in case someone wants to use those names for a different scenario. :) The fallout wiki (which I see was just posted above) contains every name in that universe, if you need more ideas.
DanMacK wrote:Possibly change the water colour from blue to brown or something? Represent poisoned water?
I wanted to, but then you lose the wave action effect, and without that water looks boring. I even tried using 32bpp masks to give the water a green tinge, but it doesn't work like that :(
DanMacK wrote:And on another note, how about some Cargo Icons? Courtesy FIRS and a bit of editing
Ooh those look nice, better than the default ones. I think I'll use them :) I like the start to those vehicles too, especially the tanker!
DanMacK wrote:In regards to the lack of Wastelanders to boost production later on, possibly have a later (2100 or so) intro of a "Machinery plant" or something to deliver equipment to boost things?
Actually I rather consider that lack of wastelanders to be a feature - after all, once you've saved an area of the map, there's basically no need to boost production there anyway. And if you want to set up some sort of massive distribution network spanning across the map, then you have to take this lack of wastelanders into account when planning your strategy.
supermop wrote:Regarding steam engines, I can see how they would be attractive due to being able to burn plant matter, but it seems like coal would be impractical to mine in this setting.
True, but there's an awful lot of dead trees lying around that make a perfect fuel source.
supermop wrote:I've had a few ideas today about housing for the wastelanders - once they get dropped off at the mines they seem to be worked to death on the first day as there is no need to house any of them!
You're not supposed to think about that! :wink: I like to pretend that when when you receive payment for delivering wastelanders, it is coming from the mine (for bringing them workers) not the wastelanders themselves, so on the return trip home there is nothing paid and thus it's like the wastelanders just aren't there...just pretend some are being transported home and they're just invisible. :mrgreen:
supermop wrote:I wonder, is it, or should it be viable to grow and maintain a settlement of wastelanders without the town disappearing or evolving in to a refurbished city? What is the best way to do so?
If you only deliver clean food and water, and don't deliver any building supplies, you can grow shack cities as big as you want, and they will never advance to the next stage.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Eddi »

Andrew350 wrote:I don't know that it can be included as part of the main grf, I think town name grfs have to be separate (I could be wrong, though).
it is strongly recommended to keep townname GRFs separate, because they need special activation on the main menu, which could cause weird side effects if they contain other stuff as well.

in any case, i also would advise making the "main GRF" separate between types (houses, industries, vehicles), in case someone's addon GRFs have different ideas how it should be handled. or make parameters to disable each part.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Andrew350 »

Eddi wrote:in any case, i also would advise making the "main GRF" separate between types (houses, industries, vehicles), in case someone's addon GRFs have different ideas how it should be handled. or make parameters to disable each part.
A big problem I have with that is that especially houses and industries are so dependent on each other that splitting them up can only cause confusion. It gives a false impression that parts can be interchanged with others when in fact they may not. Parameters sound slightly better to me, but that's still confusing for the user, especially if the add-on is absolutely dependent on a certain feature being disabled and nobody reads that part :roll:
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by andythenorth »

[I haven't played wasteland yet but...]

For fuel sources, mining coal is hardly the most sophisticated human activity. It predates (and enabled) most of our more interesting technology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ly_history

Not that realism particularly matters. :twisted:
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Eddi »

also, coal, opposing to oil, is likely still around in the next 200-500 years. it's also more evenly distributed around the earth, so does not depend on worldwide distribution systems, but that is not modelled in the game anyway.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by supermop »

andythenorth wrote:For fuel sources, mining coal is hardly the most sophisticated human activity.
True, But I imagine that most of the easy to get coal that an unsophisticated wastelander with no mining or geotechnical training could just pick up off the ground would have been extracted before the industrial revolution - and society may not be populous or organized enough yet to take on serious deep shaft or strip mining until the later stages of the game.

Unless some of the survivors were sheltering in deep mines.....

Maybe a pointless chain of dead tree logging -> charcoal? Could be used as a fuel or reducing material if these guys are making steel from iron ore instead of just scrap metal.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by oftcrash »

supermop wrote: Unless some of the survivors were sheltering in deep mines.....
Maybe the coal mine should become a town building :)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by 3iff »

Other projects have also prevented me from playing this properly...but soon.

Re. Vehicles. I wonder if there's a possibility of having items locked until certain events occur? A town reaches a specfic population or the production total of clean food or metal reaches a certain level (over time, not per month).

Maybe there's a research lab that can earn research credits when supplied with the necessary cargos and once it accumulates say 100 credits then a vehicle (or maybe a new industry type?) can appear.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by YNM »

That would need a change of the sourcecode... (or could GS do it ?)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by 3iff »

Yes, A bit of afterthought led me to the same conclusion.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Drury »

Twyster wrote:
Drury wrote:A lot of the issues discussed here have been already solved in the Fallout series.

literally so ill i cant type

EDIT: K guys I'm back from the dead. Hopefully I can't be ill as a zombie. Now for Fallout explanation of things:

As for vehicles - most of the pre-war world ran on nuclear power due to there being so few fossil fuel deposits left. This included vehicles as well, nuclear cars were common and almost never needed refuelling. Some remained relatively functional after the war.

In New Vegas, Hoover Dam remains functional as the major source of energy. The premise of the game is two radically different factions fighting over the dam.
What is that attachment grf? I can't get it to show up in OpenTTD...
The save's only running the one specific GRF file that can be found in this thread's original post. My OpenTTD had no problems figuring it out...

As for power sources, I rest my case about nuclear power - I mean steam is perfectly realistic in that case, but realistically, the society would just get thrown back a few years and advance as usual, so it would be the same as playing normal TTD... So it'd be steam>diesel/diesel-electric all over again. Easy to do, but so much wasted potential.

That, and the grf is obviously heavily inspired by Fallout (don't tell Bethesda, especially not their starving lawyers) - if anything, the intended starting date of 2077 should be an indication. And as I said before, Fallout has some solid reasoning behind it's technology and the way of life in general, especially considering it's a videogame about killing mutants with laser rifles in a future as imagined by an average US citizen in 1950's.

I'm seriously thinking of drawing up some sprites for this, I think that's what we're lacking the most here, working our keyboards won't do. Basically the first one to come up with something usable sets the trend here.

But first, I need to figure out how the hell am I still ill if I'm a zombie.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by DanMacK »

Got some vehicles (rail and road) in progress as a diversion. tankers to start... Possibly have oil powered vehicles cheap but expensive to run and nuclear much more expensive but cheap to run?
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - Testers wanted

Post by Andrew350 »

DanMacK wrote:Possibly have oil powered vehicles cheap but expensive to run and nuclear much more expensive but cheap to run?
Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking. I figure a couple nuclear vehicles could be available early on but at a high expense, while the more 'archaic' vehicles should be cheaper to get you going. Eventually the better technology will outperform everything else though. Looking good on the trucks so far :)
Drury wrote:The save's only running the one specific GRF file that can be found in this thread's original post. My OpenTTD had no problems figuring it out...
You posted a .grf file, not a .sav file. Wrong one maybe?
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