Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

Michpi wrote: 02 Mar 2021 06:55
Andrew350 wrote: 02 Mar 2021 00:12 This raises a point though: how do people feel about autorefit support for cargo? Do you use it? Is it important?
I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.
If a vehicle can carry various loads, does this not mean that it can autorefit to any of these loads? (At least, in the depot)
Or are you talking about some kind of universal vehicle?
Anyway I've never used autorefit for road vehicles before.
In your set there is one obvious autorefit option: wastelanders <-> tired wastelanders.
Autorefit only makes sense if you refit to something similar, i.e. a truck carrying oil can autorefit to carry water because that also needs a tanker, but it makes no sense to autorefit to a grain hopper. This means you need separate vehicles for each class of cargo to allow autorefit.

What I'm suggesting is being able to make each truck model refittable to everything (or at least, more than one class of cargo). The cab and vehicle stats would remain the same, just the cargo area would change depending on refit, so there would be no more need to keep hopper trucks separate from tankers, etc., like it is now. Instead each model could haul anything. That requires dropping autorefit support, so that's why I'm asking if autorefit is useful to anyone, or if you just prefer such vehicle segregation :) For sure (most) articulated trucks won't have autorefit support anyway since it would make no sense why a tractor unit couldn't hook up to a different type of trailer.
Michpi wrote: 02 Mar 2021 06:55 Is it possible to make the game remember the length of the articulated trucks for the purpose of replacing?
I mean, if you have, for a example, 3 trailers hopper, after replacing it to the new generation you have got a 3 trailers hopper too (not default 2 trailers).
It should do that already, no? I don't usually autoreplace vehicles so I guess I haven't noticed before, but if that does happen I don't think there's anything I can do about it. It doesn't sound right though :?
Michpi wrote: 02 Mar 2021 06:55 Is there any rule to determine how big must city be to achieve 3000 populations?
Is this just a matter of time of servicing or the city must have some minimal number of buildings?
I'm not sure what you mean. Each building has a certain number of people in it, so once enough buildings get built the population will eventually get to that number. How many buildings it takes depends on which ones get built and in what quantity, so it will vary slightly from town to town. This is no different from normal OpenTTD :)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Michpi »

Andrew350 wrote: 02 Mar 2021 20:59 It should do that already, no?
No, at least in 0.5. A 2 trailers Military Atomics Research KRS-9 (45t) replace with 1 trailer GenTech 1000 (36t), despite the fact that there is a version of 2 trailers GenTech 1000 (51t) :(
Andrew350 wrote: 02 Mar 2021 20:59 I'm not sure what you mean. Each building has a certain number of people in it, so once enough buildings get built the population will eventually get to that number. How many buildings it takes depends on which ones get built and in what quantity, so it will vary slightly from town to town. This is no different from normal OpenTTD
I've got a city. Is it big enough to reach population 3000? Or should I build more roads in order to build more buildings :) ? I do know the current number of buildings. My cities don't build their own roads.
2.jpg
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Or in other words: Could you tell how many people can be in "green" buildings?
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

Michpi wrote: 03 Mar 2021 05:49 Or in other words: Could you tell how many people can be in "green" buildings?
Well as I said, it's different per building, but currently the most in any single building is only 40, so at a minimum I guess you need at least 75 buildings. Once more populous buildings are added (and there will be some) that should go down a little.

In general I'd say: if in doubt, go bigger :)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Michpi »

Great job!
The cities look beautiful with different city zones.
City.jpg
(754.42 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Some small bugs.
There were no passengers wagons at all for several years, when the second generations of wagons appeared.
The Municipal hub does accept oil. This wasn't intended, was it?

I have a very strange situation.
One of offshore colonies was trying hard to close down, despite years of service.
I loaded the autosave that was done 4-5 month ago and kept playing. This helped for year or so, and then this colony tried to close down again. After the 5th attempt of closing, I gave up. The colony was closed.
But this is not the end.
After 7 years (or so) I funded another colony there. But it only worked for 4 months and was closed. :shock:
Well, I funden a new one, sliding it 3-5 tiles to the side.
But after 2 years, it also tried to close :shock:
What's going on???
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

Michpi wrote: 04 Mar 2021 07:06 Great job!
The cities look beautiful with different city zones.
I'm not quite sure 'beautiful' is the word I would use to describe towns myself, at least currently. Functional maybe. But glad you like it :)
Michpi wrote: 04 Mar 2021 07:06 Some small bugs.
There were no passengers wagons at all for several years, when the second generations of wagons appeared.
Will look into it. I'm assuming this was with electrified rail?
Michpi wrote: 04 Mar 2021 07:06 The Municipal hub does accept oil. This wasn't intended, was it?
Haha, no. But I know exactly why that happened and I shall fix it :)
Michpi wrote: 04 Mar 2021 07:06 I have a very strange situation.
One of offshore colonies was trying hard to close down, despite years of service.
I loaded the autosave that was done 4-5 month ago and kept playing. This helped for year or so, and then this colony tried to close down again. After the 5th attempt of closing, I gave up. The colony was closed.
But this is not the end.
After 7 years (or so) I funded another colony there. But it only worked for 4 months and was closed. :shock:
Well, I funden a new one, sliding it 3-5 tiles to the side.
But after 2 years, it also tried to close :shock:
What's going on???
This I have no clue. I haven't touched anything to do with that industry specifically in a while, so no idea what may cause that now. It may just be a very bad run of luck ?( I will look into this and see if I messed something up somehow, but that shouldn't be happening that frequently :)

Again thank you very much for braving such a bug-riddled mess and taking the time to report issues, it really does help a lot :D
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Michpi »

Andrew350 wrote: 04 Mar 2021 07:28 I'm assuming this was with electrified rail?
Sure. I was a bit surprise, when I bought electrical engine and couldn't find passenger wagon.
The first generations of passenger wagon disappeared too early. Or the second one appeared too late :)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by LaChupacabra »

Hey Andrew, I was going to write a while ago, but kept coming up with new ideas. Before I wrote down one, the other was coming. Then I found that the former is bad, and the latter should be a bit different ...
It has collected a bit. :D I don't know if it's good or if it fits your concept, but maybe you will like something. ;)
It is not written in one string, so don't be surprised if after letter W you see B again. ; )

Part 0/3: Bug
If you update the version of an add-on in the NewGRF settings window (e.g. from 0.5.0 to 0.7.0), not all of the new version settings will work. I don't know if this is a bug with the game or your add-on.

Part 1/3: VEHICLES
[+] Spoiler
Road vehicles
Autorefit or not Autorefit? Hmm ... Each solution has its own advantages.
Very universal vehicles that you can adapt to anything are a bit boring for me. This makes the game too simple. I like when a vehicle can have a specific type of bodywork and only carries loads that fit it.
Some time ago, Andythenorth made a proposal to extend the conversion with a selection of vehicle variants. I made such a mock-up.
This feature doesn't exist today, but it could offer some nice opportunities in the future.

As for the division of vehicles into generations, where the new vehicles are different in obvious way from their predecessors, well, that is also a bit boring. :) In the crazy times of the post-apocalypse, I would expect something more unpredictable. ;) Instead of the Volkswagen presenting style of the next generations of Golf or Toyota and its Corolla, I would prefer the Ferrari style, where the news is not so obvious, and the player has to think for a moment what to choose, instead of taking new ones without reflection, because it is known that it is 3% better. Note that in times of crisis, when resources are scarce, people are especially inventive. And I would much more expect a tanker truck carrying coal or wood on the sides of the vehicle here than anywhere else. ;) You can also combine both styles - it will be even more interesting. :D Set HEQS might be an interesting hint.
Another interesting set for me is the old Polish Road Vehicles. A simple but very nice set. Small trucks have a specific body and can be adapted at the station for loads that fit this body. Trucks with a semi-trailer can change the semi-trailer for a small fee and thus carry any load. It's also nice that the trucks with the trailer keep clearances on the road.
[+] Spoiler
Polish Road Vehicles Set.png
Polish Road Vehicles Set.png (357.58 KiB) Viewed 3090 times


It is in the online content, but cannot be downloaded if you don't have the save, so...
Polish_Road_Set-5.tar
(290 KiB) Downloaded 62 times

Roads
I admit that I liked the destroyed American roads better. Although those from Ratt Roads have an interesting texture that looks like... cracked asphalt. I don't know if that was your goal, but that's how it looks to me. :) It even fits here. The zoom x2 version could further highlight the cracks. ;) What still bothers me are the rough edges which make the road look as if it was drawn carelessly. Notice here that the Ratt pavement road has straight edges. I am also not convinced by the sand on the roads. First of all, it's too bright and too focused. Perhaps with a different color scale and zoom it would have looked better. Or maybe instead of sand, it would be better to have larger asphalt cracks?
[+] Spoiler
Radioactive Ratt.png
Radioactive Ratt.png (153.06 KiB) Viewed 3090 times

Trains

Nuketrain
It looks spectacular. It could be a great independent set. It would fit not only in the post-apocalyptic period, but also well in the 1950s, which is the period of the most intense development of nuclear energy and crazy ideas related to this technology. :) I think the spacing between wagons could be a bit smaller. As for the parameters, you have given more interesting ones in the competition version. 700 tons is much better here. ;) Although it seems to me that the power and capacity is still too small. The rest of the trains could also be stronger, slightly more varied and have larger capacities.
Maglev trains definitely have too little power - they can only accelerate on very large maps. The wagons could add power - the information could be in the locomotive's parameters. Here, the same as in the case of vehicles, I think that exchanging trains and carriages for the next generations, where the differences between them are painfully predictable, is boring. Instead of 30 more generations, I would prefer 3 generations, but with different variants. Of course, a large number of generations, especially over such a long period, is not bad, but more variety would still be more interesting. At least for me. Passenger and freight cars can have different parameters of cargo aging - if you add something like that, it is worth giving some information in the description.

Reconstruction of maglev tracks
Andrew350 wrote: 09 Feb 2021 17:56 Sadly there's no (practical) way to add the same convenience for pax networks, since electric rails and maglev just don't fit together at all.
So I suppose you haven't heard of the MagRail project? :)
[+] Spoiler
Sorry, it's so big, but I've run out of attachments to add smaller ones. ;)
Image

There is also another option: Tracks under construction
There is even such an add-on, it's called Universal Rail. Whenever I continue to play offline from some server, if there are trains on it that use different track types, I always add this NewGRF (or Progressive Rail Set) - it makes it very easy to swap trains. In order not to overuse such tracks, a proper speed limit and high maintenance costs can be given - prolonged work is always very costly. ;) And of course, some better suited, more universal graphics would be useful.

Ships and vehicles in general
I think for the first period of the game you could use the rust-coated ships from Fish sets. You could do the same with other vehicles. On the one hand, it would make work easier, and on the other hand, it would be really interesting in my opinion. It would be evident that this is the same, previously known world, but several dozen years later. :)
The same rusty vehicles could appear in the following period, but with added Era-style upgrades - something like MadMax or Cyberpunk. Later, more civilized, new vehicles never seen before would emerge.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by LaChupacabra »

Part 2/3: INDUSTRY
[+] Spoiler
Problems:
1. Disappearing factories before all necessary raw materials can be supplied, and even when everything is delivered
2. Disappearing water pumps despite being serviced
3. Disappearing Offshore Colony despite steel supplies and servicing
4. The immediate combustion of oil in a power plant is strange and makes it difficult to ensure the continuity of the electricity supply
5. Workers going to the mine just to make their mark. What are they getting so tired of? ;)

Ad.1 Disappearing factories
Recently, I did a few not very extensive games. The same thing happened to me every time: a disappearing factory where the delivery of even 2 out of 3 resources does not prevent it from closing. First time? Accident. Second time? Well, I'll deliver on time next time. Third time? This is getting discouraging ... For a building materials factory, it can take quite a long time to build a network to supply as many as 5 necessary raw materials. Especially when the terrain is difficult and the distances are long.

I've always liked how FIRS works. In the sense that it did not force anything on the player, but it gave incentives. You can deliver only the packaging to the dairy there, and it will produce food anyway. This makes the set very playable, does not stress and gives a lot of freedom... and funny interpretations.

In any case, I would have some idea of ​​how the production issues could be solved in a similar way to FIRS. In general, I believe that supplying even one, but not necessarily every raw material, should enable production to start and prevent the factory from closing. The delivery of one product would not be fully effective.

Steel Mill
-Requires iron ore, accepts coal and minerals
-Like other enterprises accumulates deliveries
-Every week, it smelt 10% of the accumulated ore, turning it into steel in a 1:1 ratio, but not less than 10 and not more than 100 tons
-If you supply coal, the smelter will melt 30% of the accumulated ore using coal in a 1:2 ratio (less than ore), and if the coal is more than 1000 tons, it will use an additional 20% of the inventory
-Coal does not turn into steel, but increases the rate of smelting
-As long as there is at least 1 tonne of coal in stock, the production efficiency will be increased
-Supply of coal alone will not produce steel
-You can deliver minerals to the smelter; if coal is delivered, the smelter will melt 20% of the minerals; 4 tons will turn into 1 ton of steel

Food Lab
-Requires seed or irradiated food supply along with chemicals, accepts water
-Each week, processes 10% of the collected seeds, turning them into food
-If you supply water, the processing efficiency will increase to 20%, water will be used half the amount of grain, and if water is more than 1000m3, 20% of the accumulated water will be used
-The supply of irradiated food will not produce food - chemicals are also required for this
-As long as there is at least 1 m3 of chemicals in stock, it is possible to process irradiated food
-For every 2 tons of irradiated food, 1 m3 of chemicals is used, which allows the production of 2 tons of food.
-If there is no irradiated food accumulated, the chemicals aid in seed processing, taking the rate up to 30%
-For every 10 tons of grains, 5m3 of chemicals are used, which turns into 1 ton of food
-If no grains or irradiated food are in storage, the chemicals allow the stored water to be converted into food. The efficiency is low and amounts to 5%. For every 10 m3 of water, 5 m3 of chemicals are used, resulting in 12 tons of food

Prefab Manufacturing Facility
-Requires gravel or sand or steel, accepts coal and chemicals
-From gravel and sand, it produces basic building materials (bricks? cement?) - acceptable and needed materials at the initial stage of city development
-From steel and chemicals, it produces advanced building materials (prefabricated elements? construction elements?) - necessary for the last stage of the city's development, but also can be used in the earlier stages
- Each week, processes 10% of the accumulated gravel and / or sand, converting them 2:1 (or 1:1 if they are both) into basic building materials
-The supply of coal here has the same effect as in the case of a steel mill, i.e. it increases the rate of processing raw materials.
-If steel is delivered, the factory converts 10% of the resource per week, turning it 1:1 into advanced building materials.
-The supply of chemicals increases the processing rate of steel up to 30%; 1/2 of the used chemicals also turns into building materials.
-Obtaining advanced building materials is more difficult (3-5 cells) than the basic ones (1-3 cells)



Ad.2. Disappearing other enterprises
I don't know why, but there are frequent drops in production and Water Pump closures. I have the impression that the set ignores the smooth economy setting and this is the reason. Very often the production changes are very large. It is not a pleasant setting. Personally, I do not like randomness and prefer to have an influence on what is happening than to be a silent observer.

Ad.3. Offshore Colony
The same problem of the disappearance of the enterprises despite the service and even delivery of steel. The company only protects the transport of passengers from closure, but not always. By the way, the passengers on these platforms are quite OP. I don't understand why a small platform produces more passengers than a large city. The raging production is also strange. Once very high, and in a moment more than half lower. Then high again, despite very poor service. As for passengers, it seems logical to me that they should be a vanishing cargo. Eventually cities expand, life on land returns. In such a situation, life on a rusty oil rig is no longer interesting. ;) These passengers can colonize cities. Then maybe there should be some bunkers as well? They would disappear like oil wells. Passengers would be accepted by level 2 buildings, allowing the city to expand further.

Ad.4. Stabilization of the electricity supply
Burning oil immediately in a power plant is, on the one hand, a bit strange and unexpected, and on the other hand, it makes it difficult to ensure a stable electricity supply to cities. Yes, you can turn the station into a kind of battery, but I think it would be nice if the burning of raw materials was spread over time. Here, the same mechanism as in the case of the steelworks could work, i.e. every week the power plant would burn 10% of the inventory, and when the stock is high, 20 or even 30%
It's nice if the electricity is received not so much by houses as transformer stations. Thanks to this, it would be possible to show the demand and supply. The player would know what the city needs. Perhaps it would also be possible to stop the development of the city when supplies are too small? When deliveries are too large, electricity should go to waste without getting paid. It is completely natural. It will also encourage the player to expand the network and rationalize production.

Ad. 5. Wastelanders (employees)
It would be nice if their presence in the enterprise, and not only their delivery, would increase production. They would be like a stock of raw materials turning into a product: Tired Wastelanders. The greater the production, the faster the wear. Let's say that 100 workers would be required to maintain increased production (this number may increase with production, but not necessarily in a linear manner). Each 100 tons produced would "consume" 50 workers. For the sake of simplicity, the "consumption" can always be the same, regardless of the production volume. Enterprises should not, in my opinion, require a large supply of Wastelanders - that could become cumbersome and cause the player to focus on one item.
Wastelanders could also be delivered to factories where they would also increase production efficiency - this could be an option.

6. Technical supplies / Robots / C3-PO
It could significantly reduce or replace mines' demand for workers. This would justify the waning availability of Wastelanders who - naturally - would no longer want to do the heavy work. Obtaining them could require building a complex supply chain. Ultimately, however, it would be a much better solution than employees, whose availability would decrease significantly over time - with time, new buildings would be produced by fewer and fewer employees.

7. Management of the enterprise
Yet another element that could affect performance. :) It would be a small group of employees coming from the most developed cities (and company headquarters?). Demanding luxury means of transport - high rates for transport, but a very rapid decline in value that can be handled only by special vehicles. Management would still be a kind of passenger so anything could be carried if needed.

8. Farms
If irradiated food could not be cleaned at the Food Lab, I think it is better that it should be a decaying load, or at least that maximum production be limited.

9. Worker Hotel / Large Apartment Building for Wastelanders
Before the city grows, some level two buildings could be replaced by enterprises that would secure the supply of Wastelanders. Their production could depend on the city's population. If it is possible, it is best if they are built on the site of the served buildings. If they were not supported, they would disappear.
It may be a single building or a larger estate.

10. Uranium
Since there are nuclear trains, maybe ships and even road vehicles, why are there no mines of the necessary resources? :)
The ores could end up in uranium enrichment plants. From there, the uranium could end up in a power plant or a robot plant.
To enrich uranium Fluorine is needed. It can be quite a long way to get it. One of the sources can be fluorite, which is a mineral. After chemical treatment, this becomes a hydrogen fluoride and then fluorine gas, i.e. chemicals in general. I don't know what amounts are needed to enrich uranium, but I would argue that any - if the player supplies uranium ore and even minimal amounts of chemicals, these will turn into enriched uranium in proportion 10+ch=1
Fluorite wikitree

11. Supply Point / Supply Base
Currently, the big problem is the lack of information for the player what the city needs. At the same time, the problem is vanishing acceptance. Both problems could be solved by small enterprises arising in or on the outskirts of cities - the equivalents of FIRS stores.
They would contain information about what the city needs as well as what has been delivered. They would be the only place accepting city supplies (water, food, building materials). If possible, a city would build better buildings only when the necessary goods are at the Supply Point or Base - they would gradually fade after delivery, the pace might depend on the city size. Food, especially clean food, would require more frequent deliveries. Water and building materials rarer.
There would be small Supply Points in almost every city, often more than one. They would accept food and water.
Larger Supply Bases would be rare at the beginning of the game, and then quickly built up in developing cities, providing cargo delivery options. Those besides water and food would accept building materials.
Shopping Centers would be built in larger, developing cities, they would have big-city architecture, they would no longer accept irradiated food, instead they could accept an excess of robots, which would be willingly used by increasingly wealthy residents.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

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Part 3/3: CITIES
[+] Spoiler
The behavior of the cities is strange and incomprehensible. It is not uncommon for a city to start dying out despite deliveries. Expectation from the player to understand this mechanism, with very limited information, is too much in my opinion. I delivered all the cargo and I don't know when or why the city started dying out anyway - most of the 3rd tier buildings have disappeared.
Unfortunately I did not write it down. The screenshot below is a manual recreation of the situation - that's what it looked like.
[+] Spoiler
Image
Anyway, I don't know if the effect of asymmetric city development (level 3) is intentional, but it looks cool. :)

Excessive road development is not cool - cities are not adding more buildings, but roads are still being built. Solution? I do not know. Maybe an indication that the set requires a slow city growth setting? I didn't check if it change anything. Perhaps the solution would be a dedicated script - that could solve a lot of problems. Or maybe just instead of fighting the game, let the city grow according to this mechanic? This would be the simplest solution.

I don't like the concept of vanishing acceptance. When you have a small business, that's not a problem. But when you already have a large network and serve many cities, the disappearance of acceptance in one city is just annoying. Instead of expanding your business, at some point you can only rebuilding what you already done. When you start another new game, you don't think about building something big anymore, because you know it doesn't make sense. It's disheartening.

It is understandable that new buildings no longer accept irradiated food. But why can't they accept food and building materials while the city is still growing? I would have a slightly different idea here that all cargoes except passengers and wastelandes should be accepted only by special enterprises, but if you want to keep the possibility of delivering cargo directly to the houses, in my opinion acceptance should not disappear.

I like the current Municipal Hub on average, although overall the idea is quite promising. ;)
I think it would be more interesting if the 3rd level of buildings could be obtained by delivering passengers, but from the Offshore Colony.

In a broader perspective, this is how I would see it:

A city can consist of 4 types of buildings: Ruins, Basic, Intermediate and Advanced.
Basic arises wherever food and water are delivered to the city. Intermediate is built on the site of the Basic, when additional building materials are delivered to the city, but only where passengers are transported (like in ITL). Advanced is built on the Intermediate site when advanced building materials and electricity are provided.

1. Ruined city
-Initially, the dominant type of cities landscape in the post-apocalyptic world, not necessarily the only one
-Some ruins remain intact even as the city develops for a long time
-Ruins are an easily accessible but exhaustive source of basic building materials
- Obtaining building materials from the city causes the ruins to disappear
(Transporting Wastelanders does not die out a city or only causes some buildings to disappear)

Accepts: Tired Wastelanders
Produces: Wastelanders, Basic Building Materials
Requires: Water and Food (any) if Wastelanders are being transported

2. Barracks, Basic buildings
-These buildings are a sign of a resurgent city.
-The buildings are made of materials obtained from what the inhabitants could find, wood, scrap and debris. They are not very pretty and often have a grotesque, industrial look.
-The buildings accept passengers, and the larger ones that arrive a little later also produce small amounts of them.
-Initially, they are built next to the ruins and next to similar buildings, then replace ruins.
-At this stage of development, Supply Bases - enterprises that accept building materials necessary for the further development of the city - appear in or near the city.
-For the construction of buildings of this group, it is necessary to provide food (any kind) and water
-Water and food can only be delivered to Supply Points, which are built in most or all cities; and also to Supply Bases.
-If possible, the city builds better buildings only when there are the necessary goods in the Supply Point or Base.

Accepts: Tired Wastelanders, Passengers
Produces: Wastelanders, Passengers (slightly later, limited quantities)
Requires (to be created): Water and Food (any kind)

3. Intermediate buildings
-The city is starting to develop
-The buildings have an interesting, modern, though quite simple architecture
-Rare buildings are built and will no longer be replaced unless demolished
-This type of development is created where passengers are transported (see ITL)
-Early buildings of this level accept Irradiated Food, but this acceptation disappears over time
-For buildings of this level to be erected, the city requires passenger supplies and at least basic building materials
-Some (or even all) buildings may require electricity.

Accepts: Tired Wastelanders, Passengers
Produces: Wastelanders, Passengers
Requires (to be created): Water, Food (of any kind), Building materials, Electricity

4. Advanced buildings
-Last known stage of development
-The buildings are distinguished by an unprecedented form, their architecture is sophisticated and pure, they are often tall and very tall buildings resembling crystals.
-High buildings often surround parks and squares and other low-rise buildings.
-Most of the buildings of this level produce small amounts of a rare type of passengers: managers - those delivered to enterprises increase production efficiency
-This type of construction requires the supply of advanced building materials and electricity
-The first buildings of this type are built next to some rare level 3 buildings, then they can be built next to existing advanced buildings.

Accepts: Passengers
Produces: Passengers, Managers
Requires (to be created): Water, Clean Food, Advanced Building Materials, Electricity

Part 4/3: Landscape

Trees
OpenGFX + Trees has options that allow you to select the available trees. I wonder if it is possible that time or other information could determine the type of trees available.
[+] Spoiler
Image
Grass around trees
Rather, NewGRF will not do that. But it would be interesting if where the living trees were, green earth appeared around them.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

Okay now that I've had a chance to absorb the entirety of everything you've written, I'll respond to just a "few" things :)
LaChupacabra wrote:If you update the version of an add-on in the NewGRF settings window (e.g. from 0.5.0 to 0.7.0), not all of the new version settings will work. I don't know if this is a bug with the game or your add-on.
I thought it was clear, but I'll highlight it again:

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;)
...Trains...
I'll look into the power and capacities. Once I've had a chance to sit down and play a good game and I can get a better feel for the balance I'll definitely be doing some adjustments :)
Part 2/3: INDUSTRY

Problems:
1. Disappearing factories before all necessary raw materials can be supplied, and even when everything is delivered
2. Disappearing water pumps despite being serviced
3. Disappearing Offshore Colony despite steel supplies and servicing
4. The immediate combustion of oil in a power plant is strange and makes it difficult to ensure the continuity of the electricity supply
5. Workers going to the mine just to make their mark. What are they getting so tired of? ;)
The way primary industries (mines, offshore colony, etc) work is that when they get to 1/4 of their initial output they will be marked for closure. As long as you maintain decent (>50%) service those industries should generally increase production, thus rarely close when serviced. I've never had any issues with primary industries closing the way you describe, but you're the second person to specifically mention the offshore colony closing unexpectedly. If you (or anyone) has a savegame demonstrating this behavior, it would help a lot in figuring out why :)

As for the secondary industries closing: that is a bit frustrating :) I'll see if there's any way of disabling industry closure when at least one cargo is being delivered, but I can't promise I can fix it. From what I remember, industry closures are a passive thing, so I'm not sure I can directly influence it this way, but I'll try.

In the meantime though, I should point out that there are NewGRF parameters you can enable to make industries "static", as in they will no longer randomly spawn or close during gameplay. This would solve the issue, it just means you have to fund any additional industries yourself if you want more than what you get at map generation. For what it's worth, having these parameters on is actually how I prefer to play Wasteland :)
...I would have some idea of ​​how the production issues could be solved in a similar way to FIRS...
Your proposed production mechanics are...complex, to say the least. I have a hard time following the way you explain it here, let alone trying to understand it during gameplay. Changing production based on arbitrary volumes of output, or certain cargoes being delivered but not others, and only when a percentage of the correct cargo is in stockpile, etc., etc. It's all just confusing and adds nothing but complexity and unnecessary micro-management to maintain a magical perfect balance to achieve desired output. You mention yourself in the very next post that making something too complicated is not good for gameplay, and to me this sounds very complicated ;) Maybe some of those ideas work for some "extreme" version of the economy, but I'm not convinced of the gameplay value it brings right now.
I don't know why, but there are frequent drops in production and Water Pump closures. I have the impression that the set ignores the smooth economy setting and this is the reason. Very often the production changes are very large. It is not a pleasant setting. Personally, I do not like randomness and prefer to have an influence on what is happening than to be a silent observer.
Once again you're describing behavior I haven't seen myself, so I can only speculate. Very large swings in production sounds like you have smooth economy off, but you seem to indicate you have it on, and in that case I have no idea. Water pumps shouldn't act any differently than other primary industries.
...As for passengers, it seems logical to me that they should be a vanishing cargo...
Later you go on to make the argument that things disappearing or changing acceptance without warning is bad; this seems like a direct contradiction to that notion. It sounds just like the oil wells in normal OpenTTD where everyone ignores them completely once they discover they will all close anyway. Most people think it's not worth the effort, myself included :)
It's nice if the electricity is received not so much by houses as transformer stations. Thanks to this, it would be possible to show the demand and supply. The player would know what the city needs. Perhaps it would also be possible to stop the development of the city when supplies are too small? When deliveries are too large, electricity should go to waste without getting paid. It is completely natural. It will also encourage the player to expand the network and rationalize production.
Again this is diving into micro-managing territory. Having to constantly monitor electricity demand and adjust the network or else have everything break randomly doesn't sound intuitive or fun to me.

About industries producing cargo too quickly, this is something I think I can fix easily by just turning down the rate of consumption to 1/8 per cycle instead of 1/3; that should make it take a full month to consume all cargo. I probably should have had it set that way to begin with, but I'll test it out to make sure it works as expected first :)
...that could become cumbersome and cause the player to focus on one item...
This quote basically sums up my thoughts of many of the proposals here, they are too specific and require a lot of attention of the player to make them work as expected. One thing I actually did like is the robot factory to make an alternative to wastelanders, that sounds like it could be fun :)
10. Uranium
...
That is basically the plan for the second electricity chain ;)
11. Supply Point / Supply Base
Currently, the big problem is the lack of information for the player what the city needs. At the same time, the problem is vanishing acceptance....
Supply depots won't solve this issue. That just shifts the problem from seeing what cargos the houses accept, to which cargos the industry accepts. Actually it's worse than that, because the industry will always show acceptance of all cargos, so you either need different industries for each stage of buildings, or you force the player to click on the industry to monitor which cargos are currently actually accepted or not.

And acceptance of cargos doesn't "vanish", you must build the municipal hub industry and directly initiate the final stage of buildings, so you should be very aware that those cargos will no longer be needed in that town and you can arrange to transport them elsewhere. If you don't wish to stop delivering cargos to a town, simply don't build the hub :)
The behavior of the cities is strange and incomprehensible. It is not uncommon for a city to start dying out despite deliveries. Expectation from the player to understand this mechanism, with very limited information, is too much in my opinion. I delivered all the cargo and I don't know when or why the city started dying out anyway - most of the 3rd tier buildings have disappeared.
Unfortunately I did not write it down. The screenshot below is a manual recreation of the situation - that's what it looked like.
In order to properly explain the town growth mechanics to the player, I would need to be able to put the information in a window, preferably the town information window since that's the logical place to look. That however would require a patch to the game to extend that ability to NewGRF. The alternative is to write a separate GameScript which can already do that, but there's no way to guarantee that a player uses it, so that is not a dependable solution. So for now you'll just have to read the manual to understand how it works :)

As for your town shrinking: the way you show it should not be possible. If your town is shrinking it is because not all of the cargos are being delivered frequently enough, but in that case it should cause all types of houses to disappear, not just one. This is definitely one situation where a savegame is needed to diagnose what is wrong :)

Actually, having renewed buildings disappear due to transporting wastelanders away shouldn't really happen at all, at least it doesn't make much sense. So maybe that needs some investigation as well.
Excessive road development is not cool...
There is a game setting to disallow towns from building roads - I highly recommend you enable that :)
It is understandable that new buildings no longer accept irradiated food. But why can't they accept food and building materials while the city is still growing?
If you mean the self sustained buildings should accept cargo, that doesn't really make sense. The whole point is that they don't need any more cargo. If you don't want to stop delivering cargos there then don't build to the last stage, keep it at the green buildings.
...[town growth ideas]...
I don't understand. You begin this post by claiming the town growth mechanics are too complicated to understand, then propose far more complicated and arbitrary mechanics to replace them? ?(
I wonder if it is possible that time or other information could determine the type of trees available
Not just the trees, the whole landscape can be switched on or off. I'm already adding that as option so you can, at whatever date you choose, have the world change back to green again. Or disable the landscape completely and just use the normal climate graphics from the beginning if you want :)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Michpi »

Hello!
Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16 If you (or anyone) has a savegame demonstrating this behavior, it would help a lot in figuring out why
I added a couple of saves. I hope this helps.

Great work!
Despite this is a alpha version, everything work well for me.
The current requirements of 3,000 people and $ 18 million for the construction of a Municipal Hub look fairly balanced.

Below are a few comments in addition to everything I've written before :)

Trains.
Broad gauge trains look good, but I can't see the playing role for them. They are a bit faster than standard gauge, but have lower load capacity. In fact, if I need faster trains I'll use electric engines. And wagons length of 0.9 looks strange for me.
As for the standard train, personally I dislike different wagons length, because it makes a bit difficult to replace them.
Maglev trains doesn't fit the stations and looks a bit underpowered. And yes, you should make new bridges for them :)

It looks like you greatly decreased wastelanders production rate. Now it might be difficult to supply many prime industries with wastelanders from one city. And the demand of delivering 400 wastelanders to quadruple production rate looks very strange now.

Destroyed road. Is it possible to automatically replace it with an asphalt road as soon as the city grows? Without any charge :)

Maybe Power plant should accept coal too?
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by LaChupacabra »

Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16 I thought it was clear, but I'll highlight it again:
Then the error becomes obvious. ;)
You used the same ID for the incompatible versions, thus giving the player the option to update which is not working properly.
Note that FIRS 1, 2, 3, subsequent releases of Auzind, SPI have different identifiers.
By the way, the difference in the marking 0.5.0 vs. 0.7.0 does not imply any incompatibility.
Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16 Offshore colony closing unexpectedly.
If you (or anyone) has a savegame demonstrating this behavior, it would help a lot in figuring out why :)
I made a little save for you to see for yourself.
-At first, the colonies for which steel was delivered disappear (this may be the fortuity)
-Right after that, colonies without supplies disappear
-You can transport over 80% of the oil, but if you don't deliver passengers the enterprise ALWAYS disappears.
-Colonies where passengers are transported don't disappear, and the production of passengers over time reaches very high values, even when the transport rating is very low.
-The increase in passenger production appears to be independent of the transport rating and is fluctuating significantly
-Financially, transporting passengers between colonies is more profitable than transporting oil
[+] Spoiler
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Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16 it just means you have to fund any additional industries yourself if you want more than what you get at map generation.
It spoils the fun. Same as building all city roads yourself.
Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16 Your proposed production mechanics are...complex, to say the least. I have a hard time following the way you explain it here, let alone trying to understand it during gameplay.
What I wrote is not one consistent idea, but rather a collection of them, so there is a bit of inconsistency in it. :)
As for what's too complicated, a lot depends on the point from which you are looking at it. Being the author of an idea, it will always be more understandable to you than for someone who comes into contact with such an idea for the first time. If someone were to describe all the dependencies that occur in FIRS, understanding it on paper also would not be very easy, and yet in the game it is quite intuitive.

In the case of industry, I just developed few, rather simple ideas:
  1. Providing one of the basic raw materials is enough for the factory to produce something (this would allow the player to protect the enterprise from closure)
  2. Processing the delivered raw materials into a product over time instead of immediate
  3. The more resources you have accumulated, the greater the production (e.g. 10% of resources per week is always processed)
  4. Providing other raw materials would increase the processing rate (up to e.g. 30%) and production efficiency.
  5. The level of production of the mine depends on the number of Wastelanders present in enterprise, not only delivered (they tire slowly) - thanks to this you can see and control supplies easier.
In the case of houses, the concept is not that different to what it is today. Most of them are cosmetics. I just covered the details so maybe the amount of information might have overwhelmed you a bit. ;)

I could summarize the significant differences in three points:
  1. Cargo acceptance never (or hardly ever) disappears
  2. Loads are delivered only to municipal companies, thanks to which:
    • the player will be able to find out what the city needs
    • it will be possible to deliver some loads less frequently
    • it will be possible to make the demand dependent on the size of the city
  3. Using the method of city development known from ITL to preserve the asymmetry and diversity of the city
Ad.2 If you prefer the acceptance of loads by buildings, such a municipal enterprise can still serve as an information point for the player
Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16
...As for passengers, it seems logical to me that they should be a vanishing cargo...
Later you go on to make the argument that things disappearing or changing acceptance without warning is bad; this seems like a direct contradiction to that notion. It sounds just like the oil wells in normal OpenTTD where everyone ignores them completely once they discover they will all close anyway. Most people think it's not worth the effort, myself included :)
The question of playability
Something completely different is the sudden and continuous disappearance of acceptance of deliveries, where at some point you have to rebuild your railroads all the time, and another thing is the decrease in production for not very important connections served by ships, which you can change in a few seconds.
Offshore Colony could be just something for a while that would facilitate the development of cities at some stage. Something like 5 stops, but logically justifiable.
The question of logic
A. Cities need and will always need food and water supplies - that will never change, someone has to provide it. The demand for building materials will also remain, especially as cities continue to grow. The sudden decline in acceptance of these charges is strange and illogical. Although, of course, everything can be justified somehow... The introduction of communism, embargo, robots that eliminated and replaced humans...
B. Would you like to live on a rusty oil rig when life returns on land and cities become beautiful? It seems logical that people in such a situation will want to move to somewhere more comfortable to live. Probably not all of them, but most of them would leave such places. Growing numbers of passengers, exceeding those that can be obtained in the entire, large city, do not make sense.
Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16 If you don't want to stop delivering cargos there then don't build to the last stage, keep it at the green buildings.
To me, it almost sounds like "don't you want to? Then don't play it". After all, this is, in a way, the goal of the game.

If the municipal hub could be funded after the final development is reached, so that the city doesn't start to shrink and the player can deliver his loads to another city, it would make sense to me. But forcing me to rebuild my entire network is definitely a bad idea for me.
Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16
It's nice if the electricity is received not so much by houses as transformer stations. Thanks to this, it would be possible to show the demand and supply. The player would know what the city needs. Perhaps it would also be possible to stop the development of the city when supplies are too small? When deliveries are too large, electricity should go to waste without getting paid. It is completely natural. It will also encourage the player to expand the network and rationalize production.
Again this is diving into micro-managing territory. Having to constantly monitor electricity demand and adjust the network or else have everything break randomly doesn't sound intuitive or fun to me.
Electricity supply is now an extremely easy and profitable activity. After building the line, you don't have to think about it at all - the cash goes to the account itself. My suggestion would be no micro-management, but a bit of a challenge. ;) Since the electricity is very fast and doesn't require many "electrons", the interesting solution for me (if the player wants to earn more) was the need to look for new recipients and expand the network. The player would not be forced to do so, as in the case of the reconstruction of all railway lines supplying a city that suddenly stopped accepting everything. Here the player could expand the network. Adjustment would still be quite simple.

Btw. I noticed something very interesting. Level 3 buildings are concentrated around the power receiving station. It was on purpose? :)
[+] Spoiler
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Andrew350 wrote: 09 Mar 2021 03:16
I wonder if it is possible that time or other information could determine the type of trees available
Not just the trees, the whole landscape can be switched on or off. I'm already adding that as option so you can, at whatever date you choose, have the world change back to green again. Or disable the landscape completely and just use the normal climate graphics from the beginning if you want :)
These options won't be bad, I like them, but that wasn't the point. :) I mean, trees change like buildings. This could be simplified and happen in a specific year, but it would be much more interesting if the fulfillment of certain conditions allowed the emergence of new trees. I suppose something like this was / is planned at OpenGFX + Mars, where there is a enterprise called Terraforming Plant.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

LaChupacabra wrote: 09 Mar 2021 23:44 You used the same ID for the incompatible versions, thus giving the player the option to update which is not working properly.
Note that FIRS 1, 2, 3, subsequent releases of Auzind, SPI have different identifiers.
By the way, the difference in the marking 0.5.0 vs. 0.7.0 does not imply any incompatibility.
You are not supposed to use newgrf_developer_tools to force-update NewGRFs. That is a bad idea, especially when they are marked as incompatible since that is done for good reasons. GRFID and the version number shown in the title are irrelevant here, what matters is that the internal version numbers are set to be incompatible with older versions:

real_version.png
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Ignoring that and forcing an update anyway is a sure way to break your game, and a good example of why such developer tools are disabled by default. Please just use the normal upgrade button in the future, or if you continue using the developer tools please be more careful and observe when things are truly incompatible as indicated by those two numbers :)
I made a little save for you to see for yourself.
I'll check it out, maybe there is something I can do to prevent closure. I also might look into capping passenger production so it doesn't get too ludicrously high :)
To me, it almost sounds like "don't you want to? Then don't play it". After all, this is, in a way, the goal of the game.
I'm still not sure what the issue is. Towns don't "shrink" once the hub is built, they just slowly transition to a set of buildings which no longer require cargo delivery. If that effect is not desired, don't build the Hub to initiate the final stage.
Btw. I noticed something very interesting. Level 3 buildings are concentrated around the power receiving station. It was on purpose? :)
Not exactly. That just happens to be the area where delivery of all four cargoes are detected. If your stations were closer together the houses would probably be more spread out :)
These options won't be bad, I like them, but that wasn't the point. :) I mean, trees change like buildings. This could be simplified and happen in a specific year, but it would be much more interesting if the fulfillment of certain conditions allowed the emergence of new trees. I suppose something like this was / is planned at OpenGFX + Mars, where there is a enterprise called Terraforming Plant.
No, that is not possible unfortunately. Trees are just random sprites, they cannot change based on anything meaningful.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by LaChupacabra »

Andrew350 wrote: 10 Mar 2021 21:30 You are not supposed to use newgrf_developer_tools to force-update NewGRFs. That is a bad idea, especially when they are marked as incompatible since that is done for good reasons. GRFID and the version number shown in the title are irrelevant here, what matters is that the internal version numbers are set to be incompatible with older versions:

real_version.png

Ignoring that and forcing an update anyway is a sure way to break your game, and a good example of why such developer tools are disabled by default. Please just use the normal upgrade button in the future, or if you continue using the developer tools please be more careful and observe when things are truly incompatible as indicated by those two numbers :)
Bla bla bla...
Before you start explaining and lecturing something to me, check what I wrote about. ;)

1. Start the game (1.10.3)
2. Open the NewGRF settings window
3. For the clean list, select Wasteland 0.4.0 (or earlier)
4. Press Upgrade (newgrf_developer_tools = false - it doesn't matter)
5. The add-on will be updated to 0.7.0 or possibly newer you have
6. Open the add-on's settings and say what you see

Most likely the game ignores compatible version information and always chooses the newest. Earlier, I didn't pay attention to it, because everything worked fine, anyway, I rarely use the "update" button. Here I noticed that the settings were not changed after the update.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

LaChupacabra wrote: 10 Mar 2021 23:37 4. Press Upgrade (newgrf_developer_tools = false - it doesn't matter)
Then you must have scenario developer tools active, which allows the same action and indeed happily ignores the minimum version. So I'll say again, if you choose to use the dev tools to upgrade NewGRFs then you really must pay attention to compatibility.

On further checking the upgrade button doesn't even exist without the developer tools active (which they shouldn't be unless you really need them), so I should not have suggested using it at all. The only "correct" way to update an existing save is to remove the old NewGRF from your folder and replace it with the new one. This would absolutely ensure you cannot mistakenly update to an incompatible version.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by andreasaspenberg »

i have tested it and i found a few issues that needs fixing. towns never specify that they need food, water or building materials. i have tested it on both toyland and subtropical. one of my towns dropped to 6 before i managed to deliver food. it is certainly an interesting mod but, it lacks separate trees and uses the default trees. keep up the work. after testing it some more, i found a few areas that could use some work: towns should start to produce mail once they reach a certain population. once towns no longer accepts food, water and building materials, they should ask for something else, so that players can repurpose their transports. now when all towns is self sustained, the entire transport business stops. mines should get more out of wastelanders than just doubled production. i thinking something like a production increase based on the number delivered. then there is another bug: certain towns will start shrinking no matter the amount of food and water they get, just because they are not financed through the city council screen.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

andreasaspenberg wrote: 16 Mar 2021 21:24 i have tested it and i found a few issues that needs fixing. towns never specify that they need food, water or building materials. i have tested it on both toyland and subtropical. one of my towns dropped to 6 before i managed to deliver food. it is certainly an interesting mod but, it lacks separate trees and uses the default trees. keep up the work. after testing it some more, i found a few areas that could use some work: towns should start to produce mail once they reach a certain population. once towns no longer accepts food, water and building materials, they should ask for something else, so that players can repurpose their transports. now when all towns is self sustained, the entire transport business stops. mines should get more out of wastelanders than just doubled production. i thinking something like a production increase based on the number delivered. then there is another bug: certain towns will start shrinking no matter the amount of food and water they get, just because they are not financed through the city council screen.
Hi, very sorry I missed your post! Just a couple things:

About using other climates: Wasteland doesn't explicitly support other climates (yet), but with today's release (see below) this should be more accessible at least graphically :) There may be some weird inconsistencies with cargo acceptance for town growth, but I'm not too concerned about that for now. Wasteland in its default configuration is still meant to be played in Temperate :)
andreasaspenberg wrote: 16 Mar 2021 21:24 then there is another bug: certain towns will start shrinking no matter the amount of food and water they get, just because they are not financed through the city council screen.
Please elaborate what you mean here :) It should not be necessary to fund new buildings in order to get towns to grow, so more information on what you're doing might help to figure out what's wrong.

Right, with that out of the way...

After much delay I'm finally releasing alpha 2 of Wasteland 0.7. This is bringing some big changes under the hood from alpha 1, mostly with industries, hopefully fixing many of the issues you brought to my attention with things like industries closing too quickly :)

The major change is that the secondary industries (Food Lab, Prefab Plant, and Steel Mill) will now produce a reduced amount of goods even if only one required cargo is delivered. This is, as it turns out, the only way to stop these secondary industries from closing until the player has completed all the necessary industry chains. Sadly there is no direct control over industry closure via NewGRF, instead it has to be managed passively by playing with the built-in game mechanics to try and avoid the hard-coded conditions which trigger it. In short, you have to be able to transport some kind of manufactured good away from an industry to prevent it from closing. So that is what I've (reluctantly) enabled with this change :)

For the Food Lab and Prefab Plant this means you get 1/4 cargo output from delivering 1 cargo, 1/2 output delivering 2 cargos, and full (1:1) output delivering all 3 cargos. For the Steel Mill, this is 1/4 output for 1 cargo and full output for both cargos. It doesn't matter which cargo(s) you supply, the output is always the same :)

In addition to the new mechanics, I added a digital-VU-meter-like production indicator instead of the usual plain text. Not sure if that is good or not, but I thought it was cool so why not :D

The attachment Sharkey &amp; Co., 2101-09-09.png is no longer available
Another major overhaul was done with the Offshore Colony, which a few of you mentioned was closing too early and not doing sensible things with production. So I spent the last 3 days completely re-writing the production code to try and make this industry behave better. The major change here is that Passengers and Oil can now change their production levels independently, whereas before they were somewhat tied together which was also leading to the industry shutting down in some situations if only one cargo was transported. This turned out to be a lot more complicated to fix than I had hoped (hence 3 days to get it working) and still a couple things aren't working as intended. For example, I've occasionally noticed the production rate of one or both cargos dropping to 0 when the industries aren't being serviced, despite there being code in place to explicitly prevent that, and I have no idea what's causing it. So if that happens in your game, just ignore it for now until (if) I can figure out a fix (unless it happens while providing decent [>25%] service, in which case I'd like a savegame to diagnose it) :mrgreen:

I can only assume after attempting this that this is the reason why folks like andythenorth (FIRS) don't bother with random production changes: it is a royal PITA :P

The last big change is the addition of the landscape parameter. I have been asked many times in the past about allowing the landscape to switch back to "normal" after some time, as well as the option of say, only using the trains without anything else. So I decided to kill two birds with one stone, and finally add a parameter to disable all landscape elements either entirely, or based on a date of your choosing. The setting works as follows:
  • 0 means the Wasteland landscape is used indefinitely [default]
  • 1 means the Wasteland landscape is entirely disabled (this includes the "dirty water" setting). This can be used to play with default climate graphics, or even e.g. JapanSet or Mars landscape, if so desired.
  • any other value will determine the year which the landscape switches from Wasteland to whatever climate you're in. Note that this change does NOT happen automatically, it requires you to save and reload the game after the specified year in order to take effect.
Also on the list of changes is the correction of the 1st gen train wagon sprites which were too long, the broad gauge wagons which were also too long, and a few other fixes which were brought to my attention :) Here's my full working changelog since alpha 1 for those interested:

Code: Select all

---------------
0.7.0 alpha 2 (2021-04-09)
---------------

 - food lab, prefab plant, and steel mill have new production mechanics, so they can always produce some cargo even if only one cargo is delivered (this should help prevent premature closing)
 - several changes to offshore colony:
   - completely re-written production code (should be similar, but more sensible)
   - PASS and OIL_ production can now change independant of each other
   - PASS production now capped at 144/month
   - greatly reduced chance of closure (hopefully)
   - slightly reduced boost of OIL_ from steel delivery
 - improved train wagon sprites (no longer incorrect sizes)
 - broad gauge wagons now 12/8 long instead of 14/8 for more sensible train lengths
 - corrected electrified rail passenger wagon availability
 - paved over road tunnel overlay sprites to not include landscape
 - made one-way road sprites easier to see
 - more sensible callback results for ship graphics (no more compilation warnings)
 - added new parameter to disable landscape, or switch at chosen date (now allows complete isolation of features)
 - municipal hub now accepts passengers, not oil
 - corrected wastelander boost functionality, now much more stable
 - added ekranoplan (WIP)
Things I have not fixed yet:

- Articulated and small capacity road vehicles still missing
- Municipal Hub still looks like a power plant. I'm trying to draw something better ;)
- Ekranoplan is missing some animated wake sprites, also may change stats
- Many vehicles still have no names
- Broad gauge wagons have no cargo sprites
- Probably some other stuff I forgot...

==========================================================================

Once again this update is NOT compatible with the previous release (including alpha 1), but if you're willing to start over and play a game, I would love to hear your feedback on the changes so far. And as always, enjoy :)
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Sharkey & Co., 2101-09-09.png
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richnsim
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by richnsim »

Hi Andrew,

I just discovered your Wasteland-Mod and like it a lot :)

Just one thing I don't understand:
I have a city with no destroyed houses left (only lvl 2 and higher), so it doesn't accept irradiated food anymore... But the city tells me, it needs irradiated food to grow!? (see picture)
Is this expected behavior?
Wasteland_City_No_Grow.png
(646.32 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Edit (solved it with a trick):
[+] Spoiler
I ended up financing a Trading Post and a Food Lab in the city, supplying minor quantities of irradiated food and water to them, just to keep the city satisfied :wink:
Oh, and by the way: In your tutorial you state, that from a certain point on, town needs pax to grow... but after supplying irradiated food and water to it, it jumped to 10k inhabitants without me supplying any pax at all :shock:
I don't think that's how it's supposed to work...

Cheers
Simon

PS: Keep up the good work! :)
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Andrew350
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

Haha, yeah, sorry it's still a bit wonky outside the temperate climate, but it 'works' with a few tricks like you discovered. I should shift the cargos around so they make more sense there, but it also needs new economies to be done right :)

And thanks for your kind words :)
Michpi
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Michpi »

richnsim
Do you use any GameScript?
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