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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Should anyone have any suggestions or comments about Canadian Graphic Files; i.e. regarding any of the following GRFs :

» Canadian Trains and Railways (CanRail)
» Canadian Stations (CanStn)
» Canadian City Buildings (CanCity)
» Canadian Town Names (CANames)
» Canadian (International) Roads (CanRoads)
» Canadian (BK) Tunnels (BKTunnel)

or any other forthcoming graphic files; then you are welcome to post here in this topic ...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Ogre wrote:
... an idea came up about your proposed Canadian Road Vehicle Set (ore containers on trucks similar to your narrow gauge ore containers used by the WP&Y both on rail and truck). ...

I have created a more appropriate new topic for such suggestions.

You suggestion is very welcome.

Canadian Road Vehicles (CanRV) are currently in its final stage of development. Currently, we have :

. 12 buses (local, intercity and interstate) by DanMacK.
. 3 TTD 'original' mail vans, recoloured to Canadian Postal livery by wallyweb.
. all other trucks and lorries (excluding toyland) have been recoded (for ECS and FIRS compaibility and all climate availability, provided the cargo they carry is available in game), but they will display TTD 'original' company coloured livery (from the base set(s) in use).

That is ready to go, but recent events have put the brakes on it ...

@Ogre : If you have (or anyone else for that matter) any suitable graphics to replace the TTD 'original' ones, you are welcome to supply them and I'll find a place for them, either replacing existing vehicles or add them as new ones (there are IDs left for that).

Please, PM them to me here at tt-forums, they may otherwise get into the wrong hands before I can release them.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:28 am 
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The new 1.6 files arent shown in openttd 1.3.1 content download, i had to download manually and extract it myself to work it. Maybe because they are not just .tar but tar.gz ??
And road bridges looks wrong (missing pixels).( I only used CanStn.grf, CanRail.grf, CanRoad.grf, CanCity.grf, and CANames.grf, BKtunnel.grf.)
Anyway good job, and thx for this pack.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:42 pm 
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slaca wrote:
The new 1.6 files arent shown in openttd 1.3.1 content download, i had to download manually and extract it myself to work it. Maybe because they are not just .tar but tar.gz ??
Please, see here

Quote:
... And road bridges looks wrong (missing pixels).( I only used CanStn.grf, CanRail.grf, CanRoad.grf, CanCity.grf, and CANames.grf, BKtunnel.grf.) ...
Can I have a screenshot and the sequence of those GRFs (as seen in the NewGRF settings window).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:10 pm 
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http://kepfeltoltes.hu/130614/N_vtelen__1._Jan_2020_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

http://kepfeltoltes.hu/130614/N_vtelen__1._Jan_2020_1_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png


Last edited by Chrill on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pictures changed to hyperlink because of table break


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Tycoon
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Ok ... you are using OpenGfx Base Graphics. CanRoads is compatible with TTD 'original' road bridges and OpenGfx road bridges have not been taken into account (yet).

CanRoads does not replace all bridges sprites, only the ones with road surfaces. I can fix that by including the rest as well.

In the meantime, you could add TBRS after CanRoads, so you'll get decent bridges. There should be a version with CanRoad surfaces available.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Thx, CanRoads and North American Roads grf are the same?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:32 pm 
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it IS possible to download it via online content with 1.3.1; go to multiplayer, select a server with the sets and click "look for content." it should appear!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:00 pm 
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slaca wrote:
Thx, CanRoads and North American Roads grf are the same?
Yes, they are.

North American Roads (NARoads v1.1) and Canadian (international) Roads (CanRoads v1.6) are (still) the same. I had to rename NARoads, because the Content Downloader does not allow a change of GRF Name and the next major release of NA/CanRoads is going international. Further all Graphic Files of mine will in future be released under the Canadian banner to somehow link them to the theme of "All Things Canadian".

Another GRF, BK Enhanced Tunnels, was renamed too to Canadian (BK) Tunnels.

Phrossi_TTD wrote:
it IS possible to download it via online content with 1.3.1; go to multiplayer, select a server with the sets and click "look for content." it should appear!
Well, that depends whether there is such a server and whether it uses all Canadian graphic files.

You could also download them through a v1.3.0 version of the game, then copy the GRFs across to the v1.3.1 installation. (provided you have installed both of them, which is possible).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:03 am 
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I love this set, it has real NA flair.
I did find some things using NARoads 1.1a and CanRail 1.2 that break immersion for me. (Still valid after upgrading all Canadian grfs to 1.6)

1.) I thought it'd be great to use the season switch with snow aware Airports from OpenGFX+ Airports 4.1. Using this however throws an incompatible GRF Error on loading.
On a side note are there ground aware industries so the added industries from CanRails don't look totally out of place?

2.) I couldn't find a version of TBRS which includes NARoads surface and CanRails narrow gauge instead of Maglev.

3.) Engines in CanRails are silent, most notable Steam and Diesel. I don't know if this is intentional, but it feels off when using CanRails along with NARS2 or any other engine pack with sounds.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:43 am 
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Yousei wrote:
I don't know if this is intentional
to have playable version is a lot of work... why to add more work and throw the release date furthermore back and for gameplay it wont add much... if the set would be ready I would consider running sounds as a bonus!

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Last edited by ISA on Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:24 am 
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Yousei wrote:
I did find some things using NARoads 1.1a and CanRail 1.2 that break immersion for me. (Still valid after upgrading all Canadian grfs to 1.6)
Any GRF I ever published in the past and prior to v1.6 releases are now outdated, null and void. That means, if you use one v1.6 GRF (e.g. CanRail), then you must upgrade any other Canadian GRF to v1.6 too (e.g. NARoads v1.1 to CanRoads v1.6).

v1.6 GRFs have received a new GRFID (97 87 xx xx) and they all check for outdated versions and will disable them (if found activated) or disable themselves. Also, other GRF authors need to update their GRFs if they check for the presence of Canadian graphic files. Contact me to get the necessary information about the GRFID system used for Canadian graphic files.

Quote:
... I thought it'd be great to use the season switch with snow aware Airports from OpenGFX+ Airports 4.1. Using this however throws an incompatible GRF Error on loading.
OpenGFX+ Airports 4.1 uses an unauthorized GRFID of 4341xxxx; it gets caught in the new GRFID system of mine. You cannot load any GRF that has a GRFID starting with 4341 (the old and outdated Canadian GRFs). I have contacted one of the authors of OpenGFX+ Airports, but didn't get an answer. You may want to ask them to change the GRFID to something else. Failing that, as these airports are released under GPL, I can update them myself and release OpenGFX+ Airports as (e.g.) Canadian (OG) Airports. I believe players shouldn't suffer because of uncooperative OpenTTD devs.

Quote:
... are there ground aware industries so the added industries from CanRails don't look totally out of place?
The industries included in CanRail are TTD 'original' made available in the other climate (i.e. food in temperate, iron ore in arctic etc). In general, Canadian graphic files are not compatible with OpenGfx terrain. You may want to try ECS or FIRS instead.

Quote:
... I couldn't find a version of TBRS which includes NARoads surface and CanRails narrow gauge instead of Maglev.
I believe there is one here. It is fairly old, I don't know whether it still works. The order of GRFs will be important : CanRoads, TBRS, CanRail.

Quote:
... Engines in CanRails are silent, most notable Steam and Diesel. ...
CanRail does not have running sounds, but the standard start and tunnel entering (for steam) sounds are there.


Last edited by OzTrans on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:01 am 
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Quote:
v1.6 GRFs have received a new GRFID (97 87 xx xx) and they all check for outdated versions and will disable them (if found activated) or disable themselves.
...
OpenGFX+ Airports 4.1 uses an unauthorized GRFID of 4143xxxx;
Wait what ... you claim 20000 ID's for 10 to 15 NewGRF's max or so? Even if you had 50 ... seems a bit overkill IMHO.

Do the 'invalid' / 'unauthorised' (according too you) NewGRFs get disabled when your new NewGRFs are not activated too?
I really hope not ...




Anyway ...
Not sure what events have driven you to present actions. I am sure you would have shared if you wanted to do so I am not going to aks neither.
Whatever you reasons are, thanks for re-releasing your NewGRFs back into the public without us having to jump throug unneeded hoops.
Good luck with your website and the future of CanSet.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:41 pm 
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ChillCore wrote:
Quote:
v1.6 GRFs have received a new GRFID (97 87 xx xx) and they all check for outdated versions and will disable them (if found activated) or disable themselves.
...
OpenGFX+ Airports 4.1 uses an unauthorized GRFID of 4143xxxx;
Wait what ... you claim 20000 ID's for 10 to 15 NewGRF's max or so? Even if you had 50 ... seems a bit overkill IMHO.

Do the 'invalid' / 'unauthorised' (according too you) NewGRFs get disabled when your new NewGRFs are not activated too?
I really hope not ...

Action8 - GRFSpecs wrote:
GRFID

This is a series of 4 bytes. It's a convention to use the first two bytes for the creator's initials in ASCII code, e.g. 54 57 for "TW". The last two bytes should be numbers, typically the first number identifying which of the author's sets this is, and the second number being a version number.

In principle, you are free what to use for the GRFID as long as you are sure it is unique, but generally it is best to follow the above guidelines
As far as I know the Canadian sets have used "CA" since their inception, predating OGFX. Although just a recommendation, it is precisely for situations such as these that the recomendation was written.

OGFX+Industries 4F472833
OGFX+Landscape 4F472834
OGFX+Road Vehicles 4F472832
OGFX+Trains 4F472831
OGFX+Trees 46727806
OGFX+Airports 43415000

Four of the six OGFX files would seem to be consistent. Why would two of them stray away from the pattern?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:26 pm 
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ChillCore wrote:
Quote:
v1.6 GRFs have received a new GRFID (97 87 xx xx) and they all check for outdated versions and will disable them (if found activated) or disable themselves.
...
OpenGFX+ Airports 4.1 uses an unauthorized GRFID of 4341xxxx;
Wait what ... you claim 20000 ID's for 10 to 15 NewGRF's max or so? Even if you had 50 ... seems a bit overkill IMHO.
I claim all 65,535 in the range "43 41 xx xx" ('CA') and all 1,048,575 in the range "97 8x xx xx". The latter is not as much in danger as it uses non-printable characters.

Quote:
... Do the 'invalid' / 'unauthorised' (according too you) NewGRFs get disabled when your new NewGRFs are not activated too?
Of course not. You can still use CanSet v0.2 if that fancies you. However, should you like to add CanCity v1.6 to the mix, then it will no longer be possible. A version 1.6 GRF will only disable outdated Canadian GRFs of the same type [e.g. CanRail v1.6 will disable CanRail/CanSet v0.1 through to v1.2 (anything with a version ID less than v1.6]); however, if other 'misfits' are found, it will disable itself [e.g. CanRail v1.6 will disable itself, if NARoads v1.1 has been activated]. This is per Action-E specification.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:42 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
Four of the six OGFX files would seem to be consistent. Why would two of them stray away from the pattern?

OpenGFX+Airports probably predated the other NewGRF's (snow aware airports, or something like that), which most likely had a different developer than the current team... I don't know through about OpenGFX+Trees.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:52 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
As far as I know the Canadian sets have used "CA" since their inception, predating OGFX. Although just a recommendation, it is precisely for situations such as these that the recomendation was written.
I am aware of the convention to use your initials but it is a guideline nothing more.
Basically this means that if my name were Carlson Alfons I am screwed because someone used 6 out of 65000 possible IDs starting with CA.

I'd rather go buy this line ...
Code:
In principle, you are free what to use for the GRFID as long as you are sure it is unique,
but generally it is best to follow the above guidelines

If my name were really Carlson Alfons I'd be very sad to see my NewGRfs blocked because someone just invalidated "CA" completely and does not even intend to use it anymore which would make the sad feeling twice as bad.
IHMO the uniqueness of an ID is in relation to all 8 digits in the ID istead of claiming the the first 4 and everything that follows?


As for the IDs of OGFX ... I can not answer that ...
Maybe the one that assembled those NewGRFs used his own initials instead of following nrs?

In any case if/whenever my AI goes on bananas or If whenever I create a NewGRF myself of any other kind, I will pick the initials I please, without caring what has been picked before at all ... If I can not find a single file with the exact same GRFID and my mine is still conflicting or disabled a bug report goes up. (ofcourse I am not a troll and would not do it on purpose but still ...)



OzTrans wrote:
ChillCore wrote:
OzTrans wrote:
v1.6 GRFs have received a new GRFID (97 87 xx xx) and they all check for outdated versions and will disable them (if found activated) or disable themselves.
...
OpenGFX+ Airports 4.1 uses an unauthorized GRFID of 4341xxxx;

Wait what ... you claim 20000 ID's for 10 to 15 NewGRF's max or so? Even if you had 50 ... seems a bit overkill IMHO.

I claim all 65,535 in the range "43 41 xx xx" ('CA') and all 1,048,575 in the range "97 8x xx xx". The latter is not as much in danger as it uses non-printable characters.
I noticed my minor counting error after posting.
I was just wondering why would you do something like that at all?
Its not like there is anything to gain here at all or am I missing something?


OzTrans wrote:
ChillCore wrote:
... Do the 'invalid' / 'unauthorised' (according too you) NewGRFs get disabled when your new NewGRFs are not activated too?

Of course not. You can still use CanSet v0.2 if that fancies you. However, should you like to add CanCity v1.6 to the mix, then it will no longer be possible. A version 1.6 GRF will only disable outdated Canadian GRFs of the same type [e.g. CanRail v1.6 will disable CanRail/CanSet v0.1 through to v1.2 (anything with a version ID less than v1.6]); if other 'misfits' are found, it will disable itself [e.g. CanRail v1.6 will disable itself, if NARoads v1.1 has been activated]. This is per Action-E specification.
Thank you for clearing that up. ;)



ps:
Maybe this should be a sepearte thread ... it is/was not my intention to de-rail the topic.


edit:
Inverted names in quotes

edit2:
Hard return in codeblock to prevent tablebreaking too much.

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Last edited by ChillCore on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:57 pm 
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ChillCore wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
As far as I know the Canadian sets have used "CA" since their inception, predating OGFX. Although just a recommendation, it is precisely for situations such as these that the recomendation was written.
I am aware of the convention to use your initials but it is a guideline nothing more.

Didn't Bill Gates or somebody say something similar about the W3C DOM? :wink:
Quote:
Basically this means that if my name were Carlson Alfons I am screwed because someone used 6 out of 65000 possible IDs starting with CA.
Maybe not ... What about "ca" [6361], "cA" [6341] or "Ca" [4361] ?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Now chaps, I'm sure you don't need reminding, but don't let this one get out of hand please! :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Now chaps, I'm sure you don't need reminding, but don't let this one get out of hand please! :)
@ ChillCore - Maybe we can get this moved into one of Dave's threads ... :lol:

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