US Set Development Thread

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mnorman
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Post by mnorman »

Zimmlock: You mean you havn't noticed? Almost all TTD trains are 3 pixels below where they should be to be on the rails in the horizontal veiw. If we are going to do a completely new set of wagons for this then we might as well move them all up. I cannot actually at the moment move the engine up as I still havn't worked out how to edit an NFO file, and I have run out of space. Other effect of this problem are that 2 pixels are missing from the downwards diagonals and half of the cab is missing from the vertical downwards veiw. I have done a side veiw to test a black boiler, but do not think it is dark enough, whar do you people think.
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Post by krtaylor »

I didn't put that one on the list because there already are a ton of similar streamlined express locomotives that appear in the late 1930s, and I included the more widely used and famous ones (Daylight, Hiawatha, NYC Hudson/20th Cent. Ltd.) There didn't seem to be a reason to add another one. But after we get the first round, we can go back and add more ad infinitum if we like.
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Post by mnorman »

Zimmlock: Great engine, but would be very difficult to do, as to get is right would require 1 1/2 lengths not 2 (with mallets being 2 lengths, and more normal sized engines (4-8-4 as biggest) being 1 length). As a passenger engine though, it wouldn't be double-headed, and so it could be done in the same way as the Centennial (oversized single length). If course, this does cause graphical glitches.
An alternative in a similar style would be the SP GS-4, especially if it came in full 'Daylight' livery, with matching passenger cars.
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Post by krtaylor »

Wow, I can't keep up... :D

I understand the point about all TTD locos being a little too low. I expect that it would look correct if it was pulling a string of cars. mnorman, are you able to get us a screenshot of the Big Boy pulling a mixed freight?

I like the latest version of the Big Boy, I think it looks perfect just as it is except for the lack of domes I think your "shading" way of making it look like there are domes would do just great. If you found a way to make it "blotchy" that would be great, but it isn't required.

The Daylight is already on my table of trains, have we looked at that link yet? I'm keeping reference there, with links to photos and stats, so the Artist doesn't need to waste his valuable time poking around the web.

http://www.as-st.com/ttd/usa/trains.html
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Post by Zimmlock »

mnorman wrote:Zimmlock: You mean you havn't noticed? Almost all TTD trains are 3 pixels below where they should be to be on the rails in the horizontal veiw. If we are going to do a completely new set of wagons for this then we might as well move them all up. I cannot actually at the moment move the engine up as I still havn't worked out how to edit an NFO file, and I have run out of space. Other effect of this problem are that 2 pixels are missing from the downwards diagonals and half of the cab is missing from the vertical downwards veiw. I have done a side veiw to test a black boiler, but do not think it is dark enough, whar do you people think.
:shock: I have never noticed this since i play TT(D) 1995 :shock:
This "grey" looks much better than blue,orange or what ever. In my opinion the grey looks better than the black like the German steam engines in the DBset.
My sugestion of a Penn 6100 is just a sugestion. the Daylight express is a wonderfull train to. The problem is the USA had to many nice steam trains.
Hodie Mihi Cras Tibi
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Post by mnorman »

krtaylor: just looked at your list of locos, and have one complaint, no Alcos!. Also I am prety sure that the CS4000 is closer to an Alco FA1, not an EMD F7.
Similarly we can get another alco easily by using the CS2400, which looks suspiciously like some of the later Alcos, while with that high short hood, that doesn't quite reach cab level, the WDM-1 looks like a RS-1.

With more modern engines, there is a serious need for either a SD60, or an AC4400, as there are no heavy goods engines newer than the centennial.

I am thinking of do the F7 next, which as suggested will be in company colours, but don't be suprised if the company colours look suspiciously like those used by Santa Fe.
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Post by krtaylor »

My suggestion with the F7 livery is as follows:

Make the locomotive all silver, except with a low-level stripe in company color, that curves up on both sides at the nose. That way, if your company colors are red, it will be the "warbonnet" Santa Fe scheme you want; but if your company color is something else, that's what you'll get. You'd want matching-livery passenger cars too, should be easy enough - all silver, with the same low-level company color stripe. Probably you can copy them from some other set.

I didn't add any Alcos because they weren't widely used, but I'll take your suggestions and do a little research. You haven't seen the latest version of the table, I'm working on it right now adding your suggested changes.
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Post by krtaylor »

OK, I did a little research...

The Alco FA/PA are identical to the EMD F7, at least at the level of detail that TTD allows. So we could offer them with slightly different performance and cost, and different livery design, but the same shape. If you want to.

As far as I can tell, basically all the Alco locomotives look almost identical to the F7s, GPs, or SDs. If you wanted to allow for some variety in liveries you could do it that way, but I'd say, better to get a spread of different looking locos first, then go back over doing that.

I added the AC44, MB drew it already anyway. And it IS supposed to be assymetrical, there's a ventilator on the right that isn't on the left.

Just updated the table, see what you think now.
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Post by mnorman »

krtaylor: I have made an attempt at a side veiw of an F7, and yes it is identical to the FA-1 on this detail level.
One question though. Your references show ground level shots for the F7, but no roof shot, which is needed for getting the fans right.
by the way, I am not using the CS4000 on as the basis, as the nose is too low.
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Post by krtaylor »

You're doing the drawing, do whatever works for you.

This photo might help on the roof:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=37092

An almost perfect one:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=21469

And here's a ton of images:

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos. ... MD%20F7(A)
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Post by alphanumeric »

how bout letting TTD company color change the color to dark, black, grey or whatever and post pics so we can compaire what looks best? i duno


nice graph btw taylor... what is the difference between the AC4400 and AC6000 in looks?


support: I love the F7 series in the red\silver santa fe colors.. I played with that engine in game..and I think it needs some tweeking.. I tried to have a 4 engine multi head unit and it looked weird.. I dont think it had a big enough gap between each engine.. it will also look good if their was an added box B unit


what is the difference between the GP7 and the SD40?

the F40 is the perfect diesel for amtrak.. I wouldnt want it any other way =)

teh DDa40X can be chopped in half.. or just have the back section cut off and you have an AC6000.. (no catwalks on the nose, and large exhaust vents on the back)

and I think their should be a NON electric (diesel) version of the E33, E44 large nose. wernt those really popular in teh 70's?

and a NOTE: on the WDM2, that is the indian version.. so the cab is at the rear of the body..it would have to be switch to the opisite end (foward)
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Post by alphanumeric »

flashing lights?

""I have a list on my site with the action colours (eg wich colours blink, or do something else) the page is """

http://home.tiscali.nl/broodje/colour_codes.txt

well.. that would be cool at the end of the caboose and on the top of some of the diesels.. I know they have those construction type flashing lights
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Post by krtaylor »

I don't know what difference there may be between the AC44 and AC4400. They look identical and seem to be used as names interchangeably for the same locomotive, but I'm not sure.

The AC6600 seems to look the same, I really don't know what the difference is. Except that some of these photos look very different from MB's AC44 - the whole body is the same height as the cab, and they have ventilators on both sides. Really I'm confused.

This site seems to have a comparison of the two but it's in Italian :?

http://www.americantrains.it/ac_4400_cw.htm

The SD40 is a much newer and more powerful locomotive than the GP7 and looks somewhat different, although not that much different at the TTD scale.

The F40s were used all over Amtrak for years, but they're disappearing now in favor of Genesis.

The E33 and E44 electrics look very similar to the GP7 and SD40 diesel, which were and are very common. The table already covers that.

The GP7s and SD40s can be operated bidirectionally, so the cab might be found at either end. Some railroads prefer to operate with the long end forward for increased driver safety, others do it short end front for a better view. In photos I've seen I think the short end first is somewhat more common, so I agree, the graphic should be flipped around. Also, the E33 and E44 electrics always operate short end first as far as I can tell.

How did you play with an F7 in the game, it doesn't exist yet?
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Post by krtaylor »

Yes, we can put flashing lights on the diesels. There wouldn't be flashing lights on the cabooses, just bright red tail lanterns which can be easily added. The matching-livery passenger cars will often have an observation car at the end, that can be handled as well in the same way in which MB has taillights on the end of his DB passenger trains.

By the way, I do not think the way you are programming the Big Boy is the right way. As I understand it, you are using three separate locomotives that you have to assemble in the right order, the way the Garratt was in the Tropicset. I think a better way is to have the two parts of the locomotive be a two-part locomotive where you buy the front first and get the second as the other half. Then you buy a tender, which is listed separately (and can be used for all the steam locomotives), and the livery-override feature gives you the correct tender for the engine you have.
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Post by alphanumeric »

about the F7 hehe.. I mean Iv played with the ones that look simular that already exist. ( hardly use them so I forgot the names)

about the AC44 and AC4400 its the same engine.. I think Michael Blunck just cut off the extra 00.. we'll have to ask him both the #'s and why they have 2 different views lol. (I wonder if he knows)

now the difference between the 4400 and 6000 is prolly HP..

ac4400 - 4500HP
ac6000 - 6250HP prolly cost more..

should we add both into the game? hard to say.. but if both were in the game.. they should not have the same colors..
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Post by krtaylor »

I don't care whether we add both, it won't do any harm, but I'd say we shouldn't emphasize it until the more important, and different, locos are done first.
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Post by mp3Pro »

the f7 definately needs the B unit
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Post by alphanumeric »

im messing with the colors etc.. hopefully I can find a freind with good art skills to help out.. it would get us the set sooner, and take the load off norman.. enless he likes doing all of it hehe..

i just feel like we are dumping the whole load on him =\


we could use Windows Netmeeting and share application to show eachother how to do graphics... I did it with a buddy of mine , he showed me how to use hte dos, command prompt to convert the grf files into PCX, but now I got my windows version working
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Post by krtaylor »

Absolutely.

Say, here's a question. How does the [Ctrl] key work, that you use to turn around a multiheaded locomotive? Does it just flip the graphic sprite, or could you use it to cycle through a series.

E.g. there is one F7 listed for sale, the A unit, pointing to the left as all TTD locos in the list do. You buy one, and it points to the left as it should, great. Then you buy another one, holding [Ctrl]. This one's the B unit. But if you move it along the train, holding [Ctrl], it changes to an A unit pointing right; move it again with [Ctrl] and it changes to an A unit pointing left; move it again with [Ctrl] and it turns back into the B unit. That way you can assemble the manifest however you want it to be.

Otherwise, we'd have to have the A and B units listed separately, and you just know not to use a B unit by itself.
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Post by alphanumeric »

I dont think it works like that.. we would have to sell both units seperatly..
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