SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
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Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
Hi Lawton27,
Yep, I see what you mean. Well, my point is that anyone who wants to start their own set should be ready to actually do some drawing of their own I think it is the most fun part of making your own set!
I think the main point here is not much whether we can cooperate or not, but what we could achieve. I've never been against working with other artists or for other sets; I got to learn quite a lot from those experiences. Also, I felt my work was useful to the completion of other sets. One of the most fun projects I undertook was drawing the Dutch steamers. I learnt a lot about trains from that country, and that helped the Dutch trainset to be released earlier. So should a similar opportunity happen again in the future, I'd seriously consider it.
In this specific case... well, I've been working on the French set for quite a long time and, as I'm learning the joys and pains (more of the latter, actually ) of coding, I realize that any decent set should have a deep connection between the sprites and the coding, especially if it's a vaguely "realistic" set (such as the one I'm working tries to be). This made me even more convinced to draw all the sprites for the French set myself.
I know this might take a long time but I prefer to take the effort to deliver a set that looks homogeneous and coherent. This is one of the things I've always loved about the DB set, for instance. For this reason, I'm not thinking about merging the French set with any other existing graphics. (Of course, no judgment about other people's sprites' quality is intended here... I'm just thinking this way in order to achieve coherence in the whole set).
In my first baby steps as a coder, I'm realizing how complex it is to code a set like the French one, with all the cross-dependencies I have planned between locomotives and wagons. There are many possible matches, depending on year of built, companies chosen, special conditions if any, and many more conditions, and they all lead to more or less different graphical or functional effects. Even coding a relatively simple chunk of the French set, as the narrow gauge section is, involves a lot of attention and a thorough planning to make everything work as intended.
For this reason, all of my graphics is drawn with coding in mind.
The French set will have so many cross-dependencies, that sharing the same code with another set would be totally out of question. Not because of copyright issues; because of practical reasons. Even something like a 2cc-colored French set would not use any of the dependencies the original French set has; it will use others instead. I believe it would be more practical to start a 2cc French set from scratch, as, to my understanding, you guys are doing.
If your aim is to put together all available graphics and develop a set with French trains as quickly as possible, I of course will never stop you but as I said, I'd rather see this set using different graphics than those I'm working on. I can still give you my technical help with your drawings.
By the way, why dropping the steamers from the set altogether? They're not so hard to draw as they might seem, and they give a lot of experience and satisfaction. Also, if you limit your set to SNCF rolling stock, you'll start from 1938 and you won't have to draw too many of them anyway.
If you still think about including some already-drawn sprites, well, I'm not the only one around this forum who drew French steamers. Hovering Teacup made quite a few, years ago; we originally planned to include them into the French set, but we eventually won't. Also, Singaporekid once drew a quite nice 242A. Those sprites must be buried somewhere in the early pages of the French set thread. Since they will not be included, you can definitely use them after asking permission for them.
Yep, I see what you mean. Well, my point is that anyone who wants to start their own set should be ready to actually do some drawing of their own I think it is the most fun part of making your own set!
I think the main point here is not much whether we can cooperate or not, but what we could achieve. I've never been against working with other artists or for other sets; I got to learn quite a lot from those experiences. Also, I felt my work was useful to the completion of other sets. One of the most fun projects I undertook was drawing the Dutch steamers. I learnt a lot about trains from that country, and that helped the Dutch trainset to be released earlier. So should a similar opportunity happen again in the future, I'd seriously consider it.
In this specific case... well, I've been working on the French set for quite a long time and, as I'm learning the joys and pains (more of the latter, actually ) of coding, I realize that any decent set should have a deep connection between the sprites and the coding, especially if it's a vaguely "realistic" set (such as the one I'm working tries to be). This made me even more convinced to draw all the sprites for the French set myself.
I know this might take a long time but I prefer to take the effort to deliver a set that looks homogeneous and coherent. This is one of the things I've always loved about the DB set, for instance. For this reason, I'm not thinking about merging the French set with any other existing graphics. (Of course, no judgment about other people's sprites' quality is intended here... I'm just thinking this way in order to achieve coherence in the whole set).
In my first baby steps as a coder, I'm realizing how complex it is to code a set like the French one, with all the cross-dependencies I have planned between locomotives and wagons. There are many possible matches, depending on year of built, companies chosen, special conditions if any, and many more conditions, and they all lead to more or less different graphical or functional effects. Even coding a relatively simple chunk of the French set, as the narrow gauge section is, involves a lot of attention and a thorough planning to make everything work as intended.
For this reason, all of my graphics is drawn with coding in mind.
The French set will have so many cross-dependencies, that sharing the same code with another set would be totally out of question. Not because of copyright issues; because of practical reasons. Even something like a 2cc-colored French set would not use any of the dependencies the original French set has; it will use others instead. I believe it would be more practical to start a 2cc French set from scratch, as, to my understanding, you guys are doing.
If your aim is to put together all available graphics and develop a set with French trains as quickly as possible, I of course will never stop you but as I said, I'd rather see this set using different graphics than those I'm working on. I can still give you my technical help with your drawings.
By the way, why dropping the steamers from the set altogether? They're not so hard to draw as they might seem, and they give a lot of experience and satisfaction. Also, if you limit your set to SNCF rolling stock, you'll start from 1938 and you won't have to draw too many of them anyway.
If you still think about including some already-drawn sprites, well, I'm not the only one around this forum who drew French steamers. Hovering Teacup made quite a few, years ago; we originally planned to include them into the French set, but we eventually won't. Also, Singaporekid once drew a quite nice 242A. Those sprites must be buried somewhere in the early pages of the French set thread. Since they will not be included, you can definitely use them after asking permission for them.
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here
Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
Hi Snail,
Thanks for a nice reply, again you words are such that I can only agree, I also appreciate the DB set in that all the sprites match perfectly. I apologize for my seaming persistence but I'm not sure did you mean to say you where planning on coding the set yourself? I'd still be more than happy to help code it for you.
If you do decide to go it alone I recommend you take a look at NML, I know some NFO but I've recently started looking at NML and it seams better in that I can structure the code much better, with indents for if statements etc. It also allows me to put in far fewer comments whist still understanding what's going on when I look back at my code.
Anyway, good luck with your french set and thanks for the help,
Lawton27
Thanks for a nice reply, again you words are such that I can only agree, I also appreciate the DB set in that all the sprites match perfectly. I apologize for my seaming persistence but I'm not sure did you mean to say you where planning on coding the set yourself? I'd still be more than happy to help code it for you.
If you do decide to go it alone I recommend you take a look at NML, I know some NFO but I've recently started looking at NML and it seams better in that I can structure the code much better, with indents for if statements etc. It also allows me to put in far fewer comments whist still understanding what's going on when I look back at my code.
Anyway, good luck with your french set and thanks for the help,
Lawton27
Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
What's about the german-english ICE betweenFrankfurt at Main - Paris ?
Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
It's not really a french train in my eyes but I might put it in later if there's a demand.Yoshi wrote:What's about the german-english ICE betweenFrankfurt at Main - Paris ?
Also good news is I've started coding together the sprites I have, I'll put out a testing version sometime.
Thanks,
Lawton27
Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
Quick bump I've finished the initial testing version, if people could download it from the first post and give me some constructive feedback that would be great!
Thanks,
Lawton27
Thanks,
Lawton27
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
euh should the Tgv La Post be refited to mail?? in the buy menu it say paper, and when i buy it s for passenger and non refitable...
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Ah, thanks for that, must have forgot to change it
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
also since it s in test.... am i supposed to use the original wagons with those nice loco of your set?? cause they dont look that great together....(you of course understood i m not talking of the tgvs wich have their wagons)
also i wonder why you make the tgv not more flexible... i like realism but if you want lot of people to use your set i believe it need to be adaptable to any player (so many different station size we can play with!!). also is it not longer in reality than you made it ??(i mean more wagons)
other than that, it s looking quite nice so far
also i wonder why you make the tgv not more flexible... i like realism but if you want lot of people to use your set i believe it need to be adaptable to any player (so many different station size we can play with!!). also is it not longer in reality than you made it ??(i mean more wagons)
other than that, it s looking quite nice so far
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Yeh I've not added any wagons yet, if you check the parameters I've prepared to add functionality for them later, more specifically when I have the spritesromazoon wrote:also since it s in test.... am i supposed to use the original wagons with those nice loco of your set?? cause they dont look that great together....(you of course understood i m not talking of the tgvs wich have their wagons)
Yeh that's the real life consists of the TGV (sometimes more that one attach together I think), I'll probably make a parameter to change how you build the TGV to make them more flexible, personally I think it's an interesting game-play mechanism that they are fixed length, but I understand alternate arguments.[/quote]romazoon wrote:also i wonder why you make the tgv not more flexible... i like realism but if you want lot of people to use your set i believe it need to be adaptable to any player (so many different station size we can play with!!). also is it not longer in reality than you made it ??(i mean more wagons)
Thanks your comments have been helpful, I'll be shure to act upon your suggestions.romazoon wrote:other than that, it s looking quite nice so far
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Im not sure on your method, if you use the same ID for the entire train, or the first head is one ID, and the wagons are one ID, and the last head is the same ID as the first one.
You can count the number of occurences of an ID, and you can set the max length with that. Depending on method you need to adopt as well, but IRL all TGV's (or most?) can connect to form multi-train-sets. Atleast its quite common for two to connect, and especially a TGV Resenau and a TGV Duplex.
If you use NFO i can give you a snippet on how you can do it. If its NML however, im blank...
You can count the number of occurences of an ID, and you can set the max length with that. Depending on method you need to adopt as well, but IRL all TGV's (or most?) can connect to form multi-train-sets. Atleast its quite common for two to connect, and especially a TGV Resenau and a TGV Duplex.
If you use NFO i can give you a snippet on how you can do it. If its NML however, im blank...
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
NML I'm afraid, however I'll have a go. Thanks for the advice.
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
if i show you NFO-code, perhaps you can 'backtrack' it to NML?
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Yeh I'm sure that would help, once I know what needs to be done I just need to figure out how to do it in nml
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Taken from the BROS repo, look in sprites/nfo/templates/mus.tnfo for the whole thing, and might have switched away some of the preprocessor code into 'real code' wrongly.
Code: Select all
// =====================================
// C-A-N-N-O-T A-T-T-A-C-H S-T-U-F-F
// =====================================
// Length Check
-1 * 0 02 00 CID_CANTATTACH 82
60 <vehicle ID> 80 20 FF \2+ // First vehicle ID to check
60 <vehicle ID> 80 20 FF \2+ // Second vehicle ID to check
60 <vehicle ID> 80 20 FF \2+ // ETC.
60 <vehicle ID> 80 20 FF \2+ //
60 <vehicle ID> 80 20 FF \2+ //
\b2
FF 80 00 <max length minus one> // If number of compatible units is between 0 and max-minus-one, it allow attachment
<string ID of max length> 80 <max number of units> FE // If number of compatible units is higher, it gives an error message
<string ID of cannot attach> 80 // Error ant cant attach if
// Check if it is an allowable ID
-1 * 0 02 00 CID_CANTATTACH 81 C6 00 FF THIS_ENG_NUMBER_CONNECTIONS
CID_CANTATTACH 00 <vehicle ID> 80 <vehicle ID> 80 // First allowable ID, do length check
CID_CANTATTACH 00 <vehicle ID> 80 <vehicle ID> 80 // Second allowable ID, do length check
CID_CANTATTACH 00 <vehicle ID> 80 <vehicle ID> 80 // Third allowable ID, do length check
CID_CANTATTACH 00 <vehicle ID> 80 <vehicle ID> 80 // Fourth allowable ID, do length check
CID_CANTATTACH 00 <vehicle ID> 80 <vehicle ID> 80 // Fifth allowable ID, do length check
CID_CANTATTACH 00 <vehicle ID> 80 <vehicle ID> 80 // Do length check to check if self is allowed
<string ID if max length> 80 // Disallow everything else
Then use CID_CANTATTACH in the final Var2Action callback-and-attach-gfx thingy :)
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Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Nice! Im so glad theres a test grf already! I cant wait to see more work on this :3
Probably asked before but will this set work with E.J's Trains of Europe Rails?
EDIT : Afaik, the TGV La Poste is a mail only train, its ment for express mail.
Probably asked before but will this set work with E.J's Trains of Europe Rails?
EDIT : Afaik, the TGV La Poste is a mail only train, its ment for express mail.
Proud Canadian
Nekomasters Projects! (Downloads available on BaNaNaS!) \(>^w^<)/
# NARS ADD-ON SET 2CC | 2cc Rapid Transit For Me! (2ccRTFM) | 2cc Wagons In NML (2ccWIN)
# NML Category System (Organize your GRFS!) <- TT-Forums Exclusive Download!
Nekomasters Projects! (Downloads available on BaNaNaS!) \(>^w^<)/
# NARS ADD-ON SET 2CC | 2cc Rapid Transit For Me! (2ccRTFM) | 2cc Wagons In NML (2ccWIN)
# NML Category System (Organize your GRFS!) <- TT-Forums Exclusive Download!
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Hello
Great work for these TGV SNCF !
Will have it t-il of the other one?
Great work for these TGV SNCF !
Will have it t-il of the other one?
Sorry for the inconsistencies of my messages,but im French
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
La poste is a mistake will fix next release, I've not got much work done on this recently but I will release another version sometime, and yes this will be TOE rails compatible. More so when more features are added to OTTD, currently all trains either run on one voltage or all voltages as there's no other way to do it.NekoMaster wrote:Nice! Im so glad theres a test grf already! I cant wait to see more work on this :3
Probably asked before but will this set work with E.J's Trains of Europe Rails?
EDIT : Afaik, the TGV La Poste is a mail only train, its ment for express mail.
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Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
And this set will have some french Diesel right?
Proud Canadian
Nekomasters Projects! (Downloads available on BaNaNaS!) \(>^w^<)/
# NARS ADD-ON SET 2CC | 2cc Rapid Transit For Me! (2ccRTFM) | 2cc Wagons In NML (2ccWIN)
# NML Category System (Organize your GRFS!) <- TT-Forums Exclusive Download!
Nekomasters Projects! (Downloads available on BaNaNaS!) \(>^w^<)/
# NARS ADD-ON SET 2CC | 2cc Rapid Transit For Me! (2ccRTFM) | 2cc Wagons In NML (2ccWIN)
# NML Category System (Organize your GRFS!) <- TT-Forums Exclusive Download!
Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Yep. I'll see if I can get at least one done for the next version, I started with electrics is all.NekoMaster wrote:And this set will have some french Diesel right?
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Re: SNCF Set [WIP] - Testing version as of 22/04/11
Well, France does have an abundence of electrics since theres more then enough power for them :3lawton27 wrote:Yep. I'll see if I can get at least one done for the next version, I started with electrics is all.NekoMaster wrote:And this set will have some french Diesel right?
Proud Canadian
Nekomasters Projects! (Downloads available on BaNaNaS!) \(>^w^<)/
# NARS ADD-ON SET 2CC | 2cc Rapid Transit For Me! (2ccRTFM) | 2cc Wagons In NML (2ccWIN)
# NML Category System (Organize your GRFS!) <- TT-Forums Exclusive Download!
Nekomasters Projects! (Downloads available on BaNaNaS!) \(>^w^<)/
# NARS ADD-ON SET 2CC | 2cc Rapid Transit For Me! (2ccRTFM) | 2cc Wagons In NML (2ccWIN)
# NML Category System (Organize your GRFS!) <- TT-Forums Exclusive Download!
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