Japan Set Development

[stevenh]

kackofant,
Nice work stalking the dev site
I haven't had a chance to keep up with it lately; but it seems our fearless dev has been tackling a few issues.

dandan, thanks!

[dandan]

Rumors are true, I have returned to the Japan Set

I am making a few changes and fixes. Nothing major, mostly little things that have annoyed me for a long time.

It's been a bit of a shock to come back from my neat new SBB Set code to the unholy mess that is the Japan Set. (No offense anyone, I know it's largely my fault. When I took over a few years ago, I didn't have a clue about a lot of things.) For some time, I had plans to rewrite the train set from scratch (and then the buildings and stations...) since there are so many little things I know I could do better now. But I doubt it will ever happen. Too much work for too little benefit. So let's enjoy what we have.

There should be an update soon. Stay tuned.

[kackofant]

if you are interested: youre df50 have inspired me to start with a tiny addon for your set.

atm i only rebuild youre sprites to some early diesel engines and prototypes (just for me, just for fun. i dont plan to release it). but using nml. when the sprites are in usefull condition i could contribute them, if you see it as an usefull addition.

[dandan]

Sure, sounds good. Post your sprites when they are done or send them to me if you prefer. I am not sure how well such early diesel locomotives (that only existed as prototypes?) would fit into the set. But we can discuss that. And remember that we also have an addon set, though it has been a bit neglected.

[Doorslammer]

KiHa 120 demanded I use 6 MU coaches before it would even consider leaving the depot. Is this a fault or am I doing something wrong in creating it?

[dandan]

That's a bug. Thanks, will get fixed.

[Densha]

In any case I noticed a recent version of the Japan set forced me to use a minimum number of cars for several trains that didn't have that set before. I can understand that you want, let's say, at least 3 cars for EMU's but for single-car MU's that's just strange.

[dandan]

Okay, I'll check all trains for that problem then. The only purpose of these "minimum length" restrictions in the first place is just to prevent extreme cases like a sole cab car running on its own or an EMU without a pantograph anywhere. And in those cases, the "more" sprites should be displayed in the depot view. If the train shows up correctly in the depot view but does not start, that's a bug.

Edit: Looks like the KIHA 120 and KIHA E200 are the only two trains affected by this problem. I'll fix it.

[Doorslammer]

Cheers for that. It just gave me the feeling my little "branch line" solution became a very strange length so quickly.

[arikover]

I don't know if this is the proper place to report this, but I spotted something odd with the Japanese Tracks (version 3.1).

When the 'finescale' setting is activated, the 3rd rail depots can build catenary powered trains, which can then go on the 3rd rail track without catenary.

With 'finescale' setting off, this doesn't happen.

This happen with train sets which have 3rd rail vehicles (for example: 2ccts, finnish train set)

[dandan]

Thanks for reporting this, arikover. It's a bit strange and I can only partly reproduce it.

First of all, I cannot confirm any relation at all with the 'finescale' mode. This could be because I am testing with the current development version which has had some codechanges. So it is possible that this is something that already got fixed "by accident". It seems very unlikely though. Finescale mode is a purely graphical thing that should have no effect on the behaviour of different track types.

A possible explanation is that there is/was a bug in the German translation, where the strings for finescale mode and something else got switched in the NewGRF GUI. So maybe that is where the problem came from? Even then I don't quite understand it though. Anyway, I don't think it matters too much, unless the problem comes up again.

Second, it is true that the overhead-electric trains from the Finnish and 2CC Set run on 3rd rail track, which they really shouldn't. But I actually get the same problem when using Pikka's track set. (I have not tried with NuTracks). On the other hand, engines from UKRS2 behave correctly. So, I am not sure what the cause is, but I am inclined to blame it on the train sets. I'll try to look into it a bit further.

[Densha]

On the other hand, Japan trains didn't work correctly at all with the Dutch track set either, although that's probably also to blame because the Japan set has narrow gauge and the Dutch track set doesn't. It had very strange behaviour. Not that I really care about it though, it was just an experiment I did a while back.

[Eddi]

that is mainly depending on how the track set and train set are coded.

every trackset provides the default railtypes RAIL, ELRL, MONO and MGLV. any other like narrow gauge or 3rd rail are extra railtypes, which may or may not be compatible with any of the above, which will make the vehicles appear in the depot for purchase. the track set can change the default types into visually different ones, but it cannot remove them.

the train set can be coded to provide trains for the additional railtypes. it can also detect whether the additional railtype is not available, and either disable the vehicle, or change it to appear in one of the default railtypes.

if at all possible, the trainsets and tracksets should be coded as generic as possible, so they can be arbitrarily interchanged and give halway meaningful results.

[stevenh]

Afternoon all,

dandan, just checked in some white-pixel fixes for engines in jptrains. Pixels appeared whilst building a 72 Series EMU.
Have also noticed that the tunnel portals aren't displaying? OTTD GFX are appearing instead, but that could be my GRF ordering.

Brushing off the brain cobwebs and play-testing quite a bit.

update: am slightly convinced that a lot of our EMUs are 1px too high in the purchase list and all horizontal views.
The 72 Series looks much better 1px down. Any complaints?

[dandan]

am slightly convinced that a lot of our EMUs are 1px too high in the purchase list and all horizontal views.
The 72 Series looks much better 1px down. Any complaints?

Well... that's dangerous thinking.

I think most of the sprites have absolutely "standard" measurements. That means the old standard of short, boxy original TTD sprites that most newer sets have now improved on. All sorts of things can be tried to make it look better. The best thing in my opinion is *longer* sprites, not lower ones.

In general, I am not a big fan of smaller sprites, since there is so little detail in TTD sprites already.

One can also make the diagonal views higher to bring them up to the same height as the horizontal views. (I think Pikka once suggested this.) The problem is that this increases the boxy look because diagonal views are shorter.

A problem specific to this set is that we have narrow gauge and standard gauge trains and they are mostly drawn to the same size. That's of course also wrong. It's all a bit of a mess once you start looking too closely...

Changing all the horizontal views would be again a very big amount of work and I am not sure I would like the result. But we could try it and compare.

Another thing: I still do not understand at all why the thing with overhead-electric trains running on third gauge track happens. As I said, it happens with other track sets, too. But the railtype table in the 2cc and Finnish train set looks completely innocuous. It must have to do with fallback railtypes and redirections, but I don't see how it happens.

[stevenh]

Just to confirm, I just meant a -1px on the Y-Offset (actually, and a -1px on the X), not a resize of the pixels... that would be complete hell.
It makes them look 10x better in purchase and details, but I'm then concerned they don't sit on the tracks correctly.

Also noticing that most of our trains stop 1 or 2 px past station platforms.

Call me pedantic, but am happy to adjust it all as required.

[dandan]

Just to confirm, I just meant a -1px on the Y-Offset (actually, and a -1px on the X), not a resize of the pixels... that would be complete hell.

Ah - whew- a misunderstanding then.

It makes them look 10x better in purchase and details, but I'm then concerned they don't sit on the tracks correctly.

Yes, you are absolutely right. And the great thing is: There is a neat little swtich (y-offset in purchase) which I have now adjusted to shift them 1px down. (I tried 2px first, but 1px is better). Much better indeed, no idea why I never noticed this.

This will not affect how they sit on the tracks. That's a whole different issue and since we have two different sprite standards for tracks (normal and finescale), not to mention other tracks sets, there may not be a perfect solution. But I think I am happy with how it is now.

Call me pedantic, but am happy to adjust it all as required.

I would never dare to call anyone else pedantic. This will be another hellish amount of work though...

[arikover]

(regarding track bug) ...but I am inclined to blame it on the train sets. I'll try to look into it a bit further.

And you were right: ther's been an update in 2ccTrainSet (RC1) where this 'bug' doesn't happen. My bad.

[Densha]

I noticed two oddities today:
1. the signals GRF has a wrong parameter explanation
2. the E7 Shinkansen speed is 321 km/h, while in reality the max design speed is 275 km/h and service speed is 260 km/h

And a question: wasn't the total bridge renewal set reworked for the Japan set for version 3.0? I can't find it so it may not after all though.

[Mizari]

And a question: wasn't the total bridge renewal set reworked for the Japan set for version 3.0? I can't find it so it may not after all though.

It was, but only the 1.12 version, not the latest 1.2 ver.