Japan Set Development

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

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dandan
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan »

stevenh wrote: I cannot change this until I upload a newer version... So we either need the Bananas gurus to allow 'editing' the license as opposed to having to upload a new version, or wait until we have new versions.
A new version will come soon when I have fixed that alignment bug above.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by stevenh »

dandan wrote:...A new version will come soon...
Unfortunately we'll need it for each of the GRFs... I see no hurry to update the licenses on Bananas though.

As for bugs:
- Passenger cars on the Twilight Express Loco are incorrect in Temperate (haven't tested other clients) [Current year 1990]
- Sunrise Express has a Shinkansen Pax car in it :)
Attachments
Where's my green passenger cars? :)
Where's my green passenger cars? :)
NotTwilightExpress.png (2.03 KiB) Viewed 2692 times
Bad Push-Pull
Bad Push-Pull
Sunrise Express.png (95.32 KiB) Viewed 2662 times
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan »

Thanks for reporting the bugs. I have a bit of a problem with this one:
stevenh wrote: - Passenger cars on the Twilight Express Loco are incorrect in Temperate (haven't tested other clients) [Current year 1990]
If you look closely at your screenshot, you will notice that the passenger cars actually are a different livery, it's just that they are company-colour-blue! Due to some change in OpenTTD, it has recently become necessary to set the 2CC flag for the passenger cars or 2CC in EMUs like the 101 Series etc. wouldn't work anymore. But now I see that the Twilight Express cars use the green that is recoloured in 2CC.

I cannot currently think of a solution for this problem other than using a different shade of green for the sprites. I'm wondering whether that change in OpenTTD was made for a reason or whether it is a bug.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

I think it was a 'mistake' by Sanchimaru, as the wagons were drawn at the time 2CC was already in game. I think the best solution is to colour them in the same colours as the EF81, just to match 'em right. Two problems solved for one price ;)
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan »

Aha, I thought you had used the same colours for the EF81. Could you recolour the passenger cars then? :wink:
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

I'll have it done by tomorrow night I hope... That is, if nothing 'important' as boozing and bbq'ing comes in between. Now I'm already too drank to define 2CC from normal colours.

However, somehow I have this feeling there is something strange with the EF81's colours... Or it must be something I have overseen. Well, see when I'm sobar agenm!
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by stevenh »

dandan wrote:If you look closely at your screenshot, you will notice that the passenger cars actually are a different livery...
I definately noticed that :)
I just thought they were another available override... since it looks (when in blue) like the naha/akatsuki livery!
Image


Meanwhile, an EF66 pulls this, so please update the build window text for this loco to Express Passengers as well.

Either way, setting my 2CC to pale green works well enough for now :)
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by PikkaBird »

dandan wrote:I cannot currently think of a solution for this problem other than using a different shade of green for the sprites.
I can: use callback 2D to override the second company colour to dark green.

First, you will need to add this code chunk near the top of your nfo:

Code: Select all

     // Set Para A as 2cc base
   1 * 9	 0D 0A 00 11 FE FF FF 00 00

   2 * 6	 07 84 01 \70 09 02
   3 * 7	 07 0A 02 \7< \w16384 01
   4 * 75	 0B 03 7F FF "Please move ttdpbase.grf or ccol2.grf to the top of your newgrf config" 00

Then you will need something like the following in your action 2 chain:

Code: Select all

 1 * 17	 02 00 84 85 7F 0A 20 FF FF \2+ 1C 20 FF FF \2+ 1A 00 70 00 00 00 80 // set colours to base + cc + 70 (2cc=dark green)
 2 * 14	 02 00 84 81 43 18 0F 01 84 00 00 00 84 00 // get the player cc colour
 3 * 14	 02 00 01 81 0C 00 FF 01 84 00 2D 2D 01 00 // recolour callback
Don't forget to set the bit for the callback in property 1E.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan »

Thanks Pikka, that's a good solution. But since Toni says the colours should be matched with that of the new EF81, I think it's better he does that rather than recolouring to restore the original colours.
stevenh wrote: I just thought they were another available override... since it looks (when in blue) like the naha/akatsuki livery!
Why don't we include those as well to go with the EF66? (Btw, I thought that was purely a freight loco and that's what I have written in the purchase menu.)
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

I'm all for introducing more varieties in passenger coaches. Most passenger trains are 'MU types after ±1960, after ±2000 hauled passenger trains have really become a rarity on Japanese tracks, and those who are hauled are mostly highly different from one another.

Also, introducing dark-blue coaches next to the brown coaches (either with or without a blue or red stripe) would also be a good idea IMO.

Anyways, I'm not able to recolour the sprites today as I'm quite busy with my job (now writing in my lunch break). If someone else is quicker, please feel free, otherwise it will be done by me in the next week or so.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

As nobody wanted to get down yesterday night, I got up early today and did sum spriting.

First up are the improved passenger car sprites:
Improved early passenger cars.
Improved early passenger cars.
jnrNAHA22000.png (4.02 KiB) Viewed 2339 times
Brown = express, 3rd class;
Brown with red band = express sleeper, 3rd class;
Brown with blue band = 2nd class;
Brown no windows = mail/luggage;
Blue = local, 3rd class;
Blue no windows = mail/luggage;

Here some suggestions for consists when coding these carriages:
- With Express Passenger (EP) locomotives: only brown coaches, mixed;
- With other locomotives: brown and blue coaches without the brown with red band;

Next up the improved Twilight Express coaches. Colours now match the EF81 and I've added red head-end lights with a 2CC name sign.
Improved Twilight Express coaches.
Improved Twilight Express coaches.
jrTWILIGHTcoach.png (3.09 KiB) Viewed 2337 times
Are the old Cassiopeia coaches still in the game? They can also be ran by a normal EF81 I recently found out. Anyways, I've also finished the EF81 livery for it, so that shouldn't be a problem now ;)

After 1987 it would be nice to see all freight trains ran by an EF81 in JR Freight livery. If possible of course.
Finished class EF81
Finished class EF81
jnref81.png (8.87 KiB) Viewed 2346 times
Well, that's it for now.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

Ah yes. I just did most liveries of the JR West KIHA 120 series.

Only the Takayama-Honsen-livery fails as this one is quite hard to do, both sides of the train are different (red-yellow with green band above windows and blue-green with red band above windows) and both fronts have a different colour (red and green). Would it be code-wise possible to have this in game? Well, it should be, but is it worth the effort? Otherwise it would be a waste of time to draw.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan »

Hey Toni, excellent work. Will put all these in the set as soon as possible.
Toni Babelony wrote: Only the Takayama-Honsen-livery fails as this one is quite hard to do, both sides of the train are different (red-yellow with green band above windows and blue-green with red band above windows) and both fronts have a different colour (red and green). Would it be code-wise possible to have this in game? Well, it should be, but is it worth the effort? Otherwise it would be a waste of time to draw.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, I can't see any problem coding-wise. So go ahead and draw them if you like.
Toni Babelony wrote: Brown = express, 3rd class;
Brown with red band = express sleeper, 3rd class;
Brown with blue band = 2nd class;
Brown no windows = mail/luggage;
Blue = local, 3rd class;
Blue no windows = mail/luggage;

Here some suggestions for consists when coding these carriages:
- With Express Passenger (EP) locomotives: only brown coaches, mixed;
- With other locomotives: brown and blue coaches without the brown with red band;
Excellent. But I guess the different classes/colours should not be mixed simply at random? I guess nowadays the higher classes are usually closer to the loco if possible, because that means they are more convenient to reach at terminal stations. But I heard once that in the days of steam it was the opposite because of the grime and noise from the engine? Does anybody know? By the way, what about 1st class coaches?
Toni Babelony wrote: Are the old Cassiopeia coaches still in the game? They can also be ran by a normal EF81 I recently found out. Anyways, I've also finished the EF81 livery for it, so that shouldn't be a problem now ;)
They are not currently in the set, but it would be easy to put them back in. I forgot why I took them out in the first place, I hope I didn't have a good reason :-)
Toni Babelony wrote: After 1987 it would be nice to see all freight trains ran by an EF81 in JR Freight livery. If possible of course.
It can all be done without much trouble, but I have to know how exactly it is supposed to be. Do you mean that all EF81 pulling freight should be recoloured after 1987, even if they were bought earlier? But the ones pulling passenger cars can stay in "Classic Red' or "Stainless" if they were bought before 1985?
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

According to some of my reference material it doesn't matter where the high-class coaches are located, but they didn't line up directly with the steam engine. Having a cluster of high-class (2nd class) in the middle is fine I think.
Randomly mixing on local lines was a common sight until the MU services took over, however it was mostly 3rd class coaches.
Also, I think 1st class was only for the emperor... Soon after 1945 it changed to the standard 1st and 2nd class system.

Interesting is also that these 'old' coaches (Class 22000 and 34000) were wooden. Maybe we should reconsider the introduction date of the modern blue coaches w. white stripe a bit later as these are too modern for the 60s and 70s era. These coaches actually started appearing en-masse at the mid-end of the 1970s. (Class 12, 14, 20 and 24). In between WW2 and the mid-70s other coaches ruled the tracks (Class 32, 35, 40s and 61). I'll research a bit more on these trains and come up with some new sprites and consists (probably express, sleeper and local).
The modern blue coaches are okay as they are now.

Also, I think you threw out the Cassiopeia coaches with the thought of Sanchimaru or me drawing them newly... Or something like that...

--

Regarding the EF81, let me give you this table when buying:
- Classic colour (passenger and freight): at all times, after 1985 very rare appearance when new;
- Stainless (passenger and freight): until 1985;
- JR East 'EF81' 'Rainbow Livery' (passenger and freight): after 1985;
- JR Freight (freight only): after 1985, 1987 is also fine (even better);
- Cassiopeia (passenger only and only for their own coaches!): after 1999;
- Twilight (passenger only and only for their own coaches!): after 1989;

The EF81 bought before should remain in their original colours. As repainting doesn't happen that often in Japan one can still see some trains like the Class 415 in classic pre-JR era livery on the Jyouban-line and in the northern hemisphere of Japan. When a train is repainted it goes into a new sub-class and gets a complete make-over. Most of the time though trains are replaced with newer types.

---

Also, I think we should arrange an online meeting on stevenh's server so that we can play with the set and discuss the problems that occur. And of course to have a bit of fun with it or even to celebrate our great set! :D

----

EDIT: could you also make the KIHA 58 only appear in JNR original colours before 1980? After that the special-line colours start to appear. Then, would it also be possible the stretch the End Year to 1990? Otherwise the new liveries wouldn't make sense. Thanks in advance! You're a hero! :bow:
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan »

I have recently been working on the buildings. To get things moving, I think it has reached the point were I can release a first trial version of the updated set. Here is what's new:

1) Added some buildings from the tracking table that were not coded.

2) New stats (might still need better balancing)

3) All temperate buildings are replaced (except parks, fountains, and three early commercial buildings that we currently lack suitable replacements for.) Arctic buildings are not replaced, nor are there any buildings with snow.

4) Buildings are placed more intelligently, e.g. facing roads if applicable, not next to identical copies (except some buildings where it looks okay or even good), some have limits on the number, etc.

5) Some buildings only appear in larger towns: Skyscrapers only in "large towns" (above 10,000), many city buildings only in "medium towns" (above 2,000). These values can be changed via the first parameter:

Code: Select all

par. value          medium              large
0                   0                   3,000
1                   1,000               5,000
2 (default)	      2,000               10,000
3                   3,000               15,000
4                   5,000               20,000
Important note: These limits are ineffective during generation, i.e. they only apply to towns that grow naturally over time.

As I said, this is a trial version, so I don't really recommend using it in a game, unless combined with another building set (like TTRS). The biggest problem is that we still need more buildings before a full replacement will look good, especially for the earlier years. Larger towns will look weird before 1930 and still somewhat lacking up to 1970 or so.


TODO list:

Some stuff from the tracking table is not yet coded: Steven's early houses (they have to be arranged on tiles), and the banks (they should be industries).

If anybody feels like drawing buildings, here is a list of stuff we really need:

1. some larger commercial/public buildings before 1970
2. parks, fountains, small public squares
3. more skyscrapers (*)
4. more different stadiums, in particular an old-style stadium

(*) We already have a few skyscrapers. But they are so large and conspicuous that too many repetitions are even more annoying with them than with other buildings.

But for now: Happy testing!
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by DanMacK »

dandan has asked me to come back on board to do some early steam locomotives. I have previous real life commitments as well as the Finnish and Canadian sets to work on at the moment, but I can defintiely start something here and there as I find time. The first 3 locos (1870's) would be a 2-4-0T (generic, several different classes), an 0-4-2 tender engine and an 0-6-0 freight engine. Also included would likely be an 0-6-0T as well. I have some information from a website dandan suggested here as well a large number of elevation drawings and photos on Wikimedia commons. Other locomotives, like a baldwin 2-6-0, 4-4-2, 2-8-2 (the very first 'Mikado'), and the 0-6-6-0 mallets will also be drawn.

Look for more to come in the next couple of months.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

@dandan: looks really great! When I'm done with the trains, I get back to buildings. The towns before 1945/1970 should look more woody-ish. They are way too colourful. I'll get on that later. The new grf looks really great in game, even without other town sets. It makes the landscape look so much more 'Japanese' without the default buildings. A great motivation! If we ever meet I'll buy you a beer!

@DanMack: looking forward to it! Thanks for your input :D If you need help with translating, please contact me when needed.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by krtaylor »

Great to see all the additional help!

DanMacK, glad to have you on board! Regarding the Japanese steam locomotives, I'm wondering, have you ever found a speedy way to draw the separate sprites needed to animate the connecting rods? I know the US set has a number of animated locos, but as I recall you said that was quite a pain to do, and I know there aren't too many other sets that attempt it. But I still think it's a fantastic effect, and I'd love to see the Japan set animated...

dandan, regarding the restrictions on the buildings, I'm wondering what the effect would be on town size. One of the things I like about the Japanese set is that it is WAY easier for very large cities to generate over time. I'm assuming this is because the skyscrapers create a virtuous cycle, where a random-growth building turns out to be a skyscraper with a huge capacity, which boosts the population considerably, making both more cargo and a higher likelihood of another building being built next month, and so on... By restricting the largest buildings to appearing in cities that are ALREADY big, aren't you making it much harder for the city to become big in the first place?
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan »

@krtaylor: I don't expect the impact of these limits on town growth to be very noticeable. For instance, we have several "high density" buildings that are not skyscrapers. But I may be wrong, experience will have to show. That's why I wanted to post a trial version now, because I have not myself played any game with the set. Balancing of building sets is not so easy, especially if you replace the original buildings.

@Toni:
Toni Babelony wrote: According to some of my reference material it doesn't matter where the high-class coaches are located, but they didn't line up directly with the steam engine. Having a cluster of high-class (2nd class) in the middle is fine I think.
Randomly mixing on local lines was a common sight until the MU services took over, however it was mostly 3rd class coaches.
I will make it random then. That way, each wagon will have a random livery once and for all and you can rearrange the order yourself, which wouldn't be possible if I coded fixed consists following some pattern.

Still about the EF81:
Toni Babelony wrote: After 1987 it would be nice to see all freight trains ran by an EF81 in JR Freight livery.
Toni Babelony wrote: - JR East 'EF81' 'Rainbow Livery' (passenger and freight): after 1985;
- JR Freight (freight only): after 1985, 1987 is also fine (even better);
So all freight trains should be in JR Freight livery after 1987 or only most?
Toni Babelony wrote: The EF81 bought before should remain in their original colours.
Fine. But I think I will make the Twilight and Cassiopeia locos change to JR Freight livery when freight wagons are attached. The alternative would be to forbid freight cars for locos that have these two random liveries. That might be more "realistic" in some sense but perhaps more confusing to use. What do you think?
Toni Babelony wrote: As repainting doesn't happen that often in Japan
That certainly makes our lives easier, both for coding and drawing. In this country, as you know, the national railway company might unexpectedly repaint *all* their locos in red, and then, a couple of years later, they might not like it anymore and settle for... a different shade of red, this time for most of the wagons, too. You can't make this stuff up.
Toni Babelony wrote: Also, I think we should arrange an online meeting on stevenh's server so that we can play with the set and discuss the problems that occur. And of course to have a bit of fun with it or even to celebrate our great set!
Great idea! I should have some time next weekend...
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony »

On the passenger cars: great idea! Self rearranging the random order would be great feature! I'm 120% in favour of this!

As for the EF81 JR Freight loco: after 1987 most freight trains would be ran with the new livery. Oold ones would be sparse, but not forgotten ;) However, I think it's best to change an EF81 in Cassiopeia/Twilight colours to the JR freight livery, the classic colurs or the EF81 'Rainbow' (with the large 'EF81' logo) rather then restricting them to passengers only. It would cause too much confusion.
Toni Babelony wrote: Also, I think we should arrange an online meeting on stevenh's server (...).
Great idea! I should have some time next weekend...[/quote]
Unfortunately I don't... :( Maybe the weekend after? I have the weekend already booked full with stuff I can't get around any more.

I have some WIP and the Dense Buildings in pre-war colours to make things up though. Please comment on them so that I can tweak things a bit or more.
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Work in Progress.
Work in Progress.
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Maybe not such a good job...
Maybe not such a good job...
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