TARS Industries Development

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SwissFan91
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TARS Industries Development

Post by SwissFan91 » 09 Aug 2009 00:00

[EDIT] Revised plan is down here.

Just a quick thing to say first... this is NOT a request, and i fully appreciate it will be 90% done completely by me, and i can tell it will more than likely take several years to complete. So i don't want anyone saying i am just asking for all this to be done, because i'm not, although obviously feedback and critism is welcomed. Some bits are probably impossible to create/implement too, but the way i see it, if you have no imagination for a project in the first place, nothing will be done at all.

Anyway, that over, here's my idea. This set would be a series of GRF's, not a replacement for the Sub-Arctic climate. I aim to help recreate some basic elements of Alpine landscapes, and below i shall hope to outline how i might go about it;

Infrastructure

Roads - Not of a high importance, as there are many good roadsets out there, but if i do get around to this part, i hope to create roads that can become impassable during the winter months. Whether this is just an eyecandy feature (i know the NARS has roads <1950 that are covered in snow), or a way of actually simulating roads of a certain altitude becoming impassable in winter months.
Rails - Again, probably even less of a priority than roads, and as we may never see catenary on narrow gauge rails, this is probably best left to a good rail set such as YARRS.
Town buildings - Definitely a large part of the project. Having used mainly the NA buildings when creating alpine scenario's, I began to get quite annoyed at having my small alpine town nestled under the Matterhorn having a large American Football stadium. This is by no means a critisism of the NA set, as the clue is in the name, North America, so I will set about creating a new Alpine Town Buildings Set. This will include many different chalet-type buildings, with more emphasis on the smaller villages.

Industry

The main focus of this set was to include industries that best fit the Alpine areas. I know that it takes masses of time and work to create even a few industries, but anyway, (link pending)this(link pending) is the proper thread for these industries, but i shall outline some of the main areas of change here. I plan on using some original industries, plus adding some rather basic things such as water, sand, various farming/animal rearing etc., so i shall only outline some of the more extra-ordinary here. Ski areas that require and produce Passengers, but only when they are above the snow line. Alpine Meadows that require water to produce flowers. These will only produce flowers when they are not covered in snow (ie during the summer months). Florist is a town building that will accept flowers. Chocolate factory will require milk from a Cattle farm to produce chocolate, which can then be distributed elsewhere accordingly.

As you can see, this is a very vague and probably useless topic. I am sure many will jump straight on the bandwagon and begin tearing it apart. When i return home tomorrow, i shall begin organising this properly, but for now, i just had to get it all down somewhere while i thought of it. And for those of you interested in the set, please don't hesitate to add suggestions, particularly as I am probably very bias towards European Alpine areas.

[EDIT] Got rid of TOURISTS and got rid of my made-up Flourist shop :wink: .
Last edited by SwissFan91 on 08 Apr 2015 00:06, edited 6 times in total.
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Total Alpine Replacement Set: Industry, Town, Objects
**ATTENTION**: If anyone would like me to help draw snow stages in any of their GRFs let me know. I genuinely enjoy drawing them.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by petert » 09 Aug 2009 00:42

Sounds like a really interesting idea!

I would suggest that the chocolate would go to ski area to increase tourist production. (Maybe not call it tourists? Sounds like ECS?)

Anyway, great ideas! And I hope this doesn't take many years to make it. 8)

Good luck.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by Roujin » 09 Aug 2009 03:34

petert wrote:(Maybe not call it tourists? Sounds like ECS?)
What's wrong with using the same cargo as another industry set? :rolleyes:
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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by Wasila » 09 Aug 2009 08:50

Isn't it a Florist?

Either way, good luck!

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by CommanderZ » 09 Aug 2009 09:13

Hmm, sounds really nice, BUT...industry set + town set + roads set...a little too much for one guy imo.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by lawton27 » 09 Aug 2009 11:55

Roujin wrote:
petert wrote:(Maybe not call it tourists? Sounds like ECS?)
What's wrong with using the same cargo as another industry set? :rolleyes:
Personally I'd recommend using passengers, they fit the bill fine, why would locals not want to ski too?
Also having separate carriages for locals and tourists sounds rather extreme.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by petert » 09 Aug 2009 15:45

Roujin wrote:
petert wrote:(Maybe not call it tourists? Sounds like ECS?)
What's wrong with using the same cargo as another industry set? :rolleyes:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but it takes about 15 to 20 seconds to come up with a new name, so why not? :idea:

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by andythenorth » 09 Aug 2009 17:48

petert wrote:There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but it takes about 15 to 20 seconds to come up with a new name, so why not? :idea:
For good reasons which you possibly don't understand. Principally, support for the cargo from vehicle sets.

In principle it's only the cargo label and class that matter, not the string for the name. However if those strings get changed for no good reason, the situation around cargo labels becomes even more confused than it already is. A bunch of grf authors are trying to stop a reasonably good system getting out of shape. DON'T invent new cargo labels, classes or strings when there is an existing one sufficiently close to what you need.

Jake - I'd use passengers not tourists. By the way, the FIRS set will have a ski-resort hotel at some point, possibly as a separate FIRS Add-On. Both MB and Dan MacK have proposed something similar in previous years, it seems like this one is a no-brainer for collaboration?

For farms - the FIRS farms can probably work for alpine, especially the red barn, and the sheep farm that I've yet to draw. If you GPL your set, you get to reuse FIRS code and graphics which gets you in the game faster (literally).

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by SwissFan91 » 09 Aug 2009 19:27

I had contemplated whether it should be Passengers or Tourists, and yes maybe i did have ECS in mind when i was thinking about it. My only reasoning towards choosing tourists was that in my mind, a Skiing Area wouldn't produce passengers.
Hmm, sounds really nice, BUT...industry set + town set + roads set...a little too much for one guy imo.
Very true. I just wanted to get it all down, and not forget something that may/may not be done in the future. Also, i thought if it was all down here, then different people that were in the town pack-making or industry pack-making sectors may see that their expertise may be welcomed.
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Total Alpine Replacement Set: Industry, Town, Objects
**ATTENTION**: If anyone would like me to help draw snow stages in any of their GRFs let me know. I genuinely enjoy drawing them.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by petert » 09 Aug 2009 19:38

That makes more sense about the cargo sets not working when changing the strings.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by andythenorth » 09 Aug 2009 21:13

jake.grimshaw wrote:My only reasoning towards choosing tourists was that in my mind, a Skiing Area wouldn't produce passengers.
Nah, it's just people either way. The game often uses quite broad categories for some cargos (Food, Goods etc.). Passengers are the same. Doesn't matter if they're commuters, tourists, business people, people visiting their family blah blah, it's just people.

Think about it from the vehicle set side: do tourists need special vehicles? Is there any reason they can't just use regular buses / passenger coaches / planes / ferries?

For anyone who wants to reply pointing out that IRL there are ski trains, special buses etc: you're being way too literal...don't bother ;) Those should just be livery refits in the game.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by DJ Nekkid » 09 Aug 2009 23:25

that saied, i _think_ it would be cool, at some point, introduce 1st and 2nd class pax, i mean ... for a completely PAX oriented game. No mines or mills or anything, just pax. Or optionally, all industries are there, but they require workers, and produce nothing :)
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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by SwissFan91 » 15 Dec 2009 22:01

Its time for a dig. After being inspired by the winter season, I have decided to attempt to get this project off the ground now that I have a little bit more time. I am guessing the first thing should be to decide which industries need to be included through drawing up a industry map/table/chart of sorts. Any ideas are of course welcome.
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Total Alpine Replacement Set: Industry, Town, Objects
**ATTENTION**: If anyone would like me to help draw snow stages in any of their GRFs let me know. I genuinely enjoy drawing them.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by andythenorth » 15 Dec 2009 22:13

jake.grimshaw wrote:I am guessing the first thing should be to decide which industries need to be included through drawing up a industry map/table/chart of sorts. Any ideas are of course welcome.
I'd just pick something you know you need and start drawing.

Planning is good, but is also the enemy of production. Or to put it another way, I feel like I've seen a fair few elaborately planned sets which didn't ship anything :)

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by planetmaker » 15 Dec 2009 22:16

andythenorth wrote:
jake.grimshaw wrote:I am guessing the first thing should be to decide which industries need to be included through drawing up a industry map/table/chart of sorts. Any ideas are of course welcome.
I'd just pick something you know you need and start drawing.

Planning is good, but is also the enemy of production. Or to put it another way, I feel like I've seen a fair few elaborately planned sets which didn't ship anything :)
+1

I think that's a very good argument :-)

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by SwissFan91 » 15 Dec 2009 22:24

That's a valid point. Whilst I learn the art of TT drawing, I thought I would just bump this thread up to see if people had any fresh ideas. On a side note, are there any building drawing tutorials, as the one in the sticky is only a vehicle tutorial. I know its pretty similar, but I just thought on the off chance...
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Total Alpine Replacement Set: Industry, Town, Objects
**ATTENTION**: If anyone would like me to help draw snow stages in any of their GRFs let me know. I genuinely enjoy drawing them.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by tsjook » 15 Dec 2009 22:34

jake.grimshaw wrote:On a side note, are there any building drawing tutorials, as the one in the sticky is only a vehicle tutorial. I know its pretty similar, but I just thought on the off chance...
There you are.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by keoz » 15 Dec 2009 22:59

Distinguishing tourists and passengers is an absolutely no-sense. Tourists are just one category of passengers. So, when somebody thought to create the tourists category, why not also "busyness-men", "traveling doctors", "scholars", etc etc ?

And a ski-area will also produce logically passengers, all the tourists which are going back to home.

So please please, avoid that idiot non-sense category of tourists. It just makes the game more unrealistic than it already is.
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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by SwissFan91 » 10 Apr 2011 16:57

Update is coming - just trying to write it all down before I post it on here :)
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Total Alpine Replacement Set: Industry, Town, Objects
**ATTENTION**: If anyone would like me to help draw snow stages in any of their GRFs let me know. I genuinely enjoy drawing them.

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Re: TARS - Total Alpine Replacement Set

Post by SwissFan91 » 11 Apr 2011 19:41

Right - after spending the best part of a week stuck on various ski lifts thinking about this, I have got some sort of gameplan. I think the best way is to try and put things into categories. Obviously I know most things will take a long time, especially as I cannot tackle drawing/coding until after uni exams - so mid June. Anyway, I figured that getting it all down in this thread can only help, especially as it may mean someone says "oh I wouldn't mind drawing that", or "Oh I've drawn that already" etc. This is more a checklist for myself as much as anything else, so just post/pm if you want information about anything listed.

So here is the provisional contents/timescale:

Immediate

Create mock-ups for ideas to generate interest.
Recruit a drawer.
Recruit a coder.
Gather information on how (im)possible ideas might be.
Discuss with project leaders for European Roadset and ECS regarding possible extensions.

Short-term

Transport Infrastructure
Draw ski-lift sprites [Mock Up 1]
Draw tunnel entrances
Draw pedestrianised streets [Mock Up 2]
Draw/add to European Roadset extension
Code ski-lifts into NewObjects

Town Infrastructure
Draw some chalet-type buildings

Landscape
Draw/introduce snow/rock transition tiles [Mock Up 3] (link)

Industry
Draw/collaborate ECS extension

Long-term

Transport Infrastructure
Code ski-lifts as a rail-type or road-type.
Change how landscapes work

Town Infrastructure
Complete town set

Landscape
Change grass/snow dynamics

Industry
Complete ECS-extension


Eventual Releases

TARS extension for European Roadset
TARS extension for ECS
TARS landscape
Last edited by SwissFan91 on 06 Sep 2011 17:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Total Alpine Replacement Set: Industry, Town, Objects
**ATTENTION**: If anyone would like me to help draw snow stages in any of their GRFs let me know. I genuinely enjoy drawing them.

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