[OTTD] 2cc TrainSet - The Trains of the world in 2cc

[Digitalfox]

So... anyone willing to take over the coding process? Pretty please, I miss this set immensely...

Yeah it was such a promise...

I hope 2014 is going to be a good year to it

[Transportman]

So... anyone willing to take over the coding process? Pretty please, I miss this set immensely...

I'm willing to give a shot at recoding the set to NML, or at least make a good start with it so that it should be easy to modify and complete if someone wants to help. However, the graphics are of a different license (Creative Commons license Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 Unported [BY-NC-ND]), so I don't know to what extent that can give problems with recoding (as the recode will be separate from the current version).

[Voyager One]

All graphics are fine with licences, there is absolutely no licencing problem. All authors have already given me and Jake permission to continue developing this set with their graphics, I assume these permissions still stand.

IIRC, 99,99999...% of graphics is from:
- Purno
- DanMack
- Hyro
- Jake
- NekoMaster
- me

So... if you're willing... I'd personally really really appreciate it. Also, someone (read: me ) should probably explain you the graphics' templating system...

[Transportman]

Taken another look at the license stuff, I should be fine as long as I:
do not alter them in any way (was not planning on doing that)
do not sell them in any way (also not planning on doing that)
give credit to the authors (was planning on doing that)

So the license part is fine.

I will request a new DevZone-project and start a new development-topic soon, and leave the old stuff as a reference.

So... if you're willing... I'd personally really really appreciate it. Also, someone (read: me ) should probably explain you the graphics' templating system...

I think it is best if you wait until the new topic with that, or even place it in the DevZone-project for easy reference.

EDIT: New topic created

[Purno]

However, the graphics are of a different license (Creative Commons license Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 Unported [BY-NC-ND]), so I don't know to what extent that can give problems with recoding (as the recode will be separate from the current version).

Really? Because the wiki site we use as website states the set is under GPL v2+. I've always assumed the 2ccSet was released under GPL.

[Transportman]

However, the graphics are of a different license (Creative Commons license Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 Unported [BY-NC-ND]), so I don't know to what extent that can give problems with recoding (as the recode will be separate from the current version).

Really? Because the wiki site we use as website states the set is under GPL v2+. I've always assumed the 2ccSet was released under GPL.

Hmm, Bananas also says GPL (v3), but the readme says CC BY-NC-ND 3.0 for the graphics part.

[Voyager One]

IIRC we've been talking about this and kind of agreed that both GPL and CC BY-NC-ND would apply so we simply discard this problem...

FYI, my sprites are released under both, for whatever purpose you need them.

[planetmaker]

Seems I could have known of this, maybe I even wrote that license part at a time when Purno's sprites were not yet GPL-licensed.

However, as the main artists (Purno, VoyagerOne) here are all around and seem to be in favour, re-licensing all sprites to GPL v2+ is easy. VoyagerOne shows it nicely how it's done in an ideal way as in the image above added to all his works - sprite artists should feel encouraged to mimic (btw, Voyager, the important part in your image is CC-BY - which means attribution is the only requirement, nothing about no commercial use or no derivatives - luckily, I may say)
The additional sprites from DanMacK surely can be released under GPL v2+, too - all it needs is asking him. Snail And Wile E. Coyote might be harder to get by or their consent - or it needs knowing which steamers and wagons come from them; but maybe that's obvious (I didn't look yet):

+Graphics Artists:
+Purno
+Snail (steamers)
+Wile E. Coyote (wagons)
+DanMacK (steamers)

[FooBar]

Snail And Wile E. Coyote might be harder to get by or their consent

Both happily agreed to the GPL when I asked them for the Dutch Trainset. Provided one can get a hold of them, I don't think there will be any problems here.

[Voyager One]

Wile gave me permission to use/alter his sprites a long time ago.

[Dreepa]

Hi,

long time no activity here.

Is the mod dead?

I played it today and there are trains, like very early ones, that are super expensive and have super high upkeep while basically having no HP or kph that matters.

These seem pretty useless.

Any idea why they were designed like that?

[kamnet]

Is the mod dead?

Not dead, but I'd say it's complete for now. There are hundreds of trains and carriages in this set. Do more need to be added?

I played it today and there are trains, like very early ones, that are super expensive and have super high upkeep while basically having no HP or kph that matters. These seem pretty useless. Any idea why they were designed like that?

Because that's the way these trains were operated in real life.

[Voyager One]

IIRC, this set has always had higher purchase and running costs compared to other trainsets. It was done intentionally to "better" simulate real world trains.

That being said, I see no reason to include a parameter for setting lower or higher costs... some time in tbe future if the need becomes an absolute must.

[gebik]

Can you, please, explain, how do I play with 1/4 costs, if it is impossible? (I play usually with 1/4 costs, since if you do not start early, the locos are too expensive IMHO)

[Dreepa]

Because that's the way these trains were operated in real life.

The problem I see is that even with towns on few and early start (say 1790) there is no use case in the game for them. No niche to make use of them.
Using them immediatelly destroys the players income, while their attributes make it rather impossible to use them for pulling cargo or keeping a passenger station from overflowing.

I mean, sure, no one is forced to use them, but then again it is a bit sad that the beautiful work that went into these kind of "locomotives" by the modding team is essentially kind of wasted work if there is no use case provided by the game world to utilize them.

IIRC, this set has always had higher purchase and running costs compared to other trainsets. It was done intentionally to "better" simulate real world trains.

That being said, I see no reason to include a parameter for setting lower or higher costs... some time in tbe future if the need becomes an absolute must.

Yeah, I absolutely LOVE the high cost, but that was not really what I was trying to get at.
The general costs are HUGE, which is really good (finally I feel like income matters, and upgrading fleet matters, I spend minutes at the depot to find the right locomotive for the job, with the right wagons, it totally makes the game a game, and less of a sandbox, with an actual challenge).

But I was specifically refering to like maybe 10 "locomotives" that are in the mod, that fall out of place. They are too early to be super rich to have them "for fun" and too costly in upkeep (/too slow/no HP) to make any profitable transport line with them.

[kamnet]

The problem I see is that even with towns on few and early start (say 1790) there is no use case in the game for them. No niche to make use of them.
Using them immediatelly destroys the players income, while their attributes make it rather impossible to use them for pulling cargo or keeping a passenger station from overflowing. I mean, sure, no one is forced to use them, but then again it is a bit sad that the beautiful work that went into these kind of "locomotives" by the modding team is essentially kind of wasted work if there is no use case provided by the game world to utilize them.

Sets like these are designed primarily for realism. Most players aren't bothered by the costs, they're trying to re-create a period of time, largely in sandbox game play rather than competitive game play. They want more "realistic" costs, they also want their favorite engines which may not be great for income. That's not wasted work for the many players who like that style of play. And you'll find that's the case for a lot of the sets that are based on real-world vehicles.

[Voyager One]

Can you, please, explain, how do I play with 1/4 costs, if it is impossible? (I play usually with 1/4 costs, since if you do not start early, the locos are too expensive IMHO)

OK, my bad. I haven't played ottd for a looong time, it's likely there already is a parameter but I've forgotten about it, hahahahaha.

Regarding those "useless" engines, as kamnet said, they're there to fill a specific niche and are great for recreating real history. Also, a suggestion if I may: loco too weak? The history is full with trains that had 2 o more locos pulling wagons, i.e.

P.S. at the end, with so many engines in the set, you can easily ignore some in your play.

[JohnFranklin523]

From yesterday I started making a fork version of 2cc TrainSet, and I have successfully made one EMU - China Railways CR200J 'Garbage Bin' (train fans' nickname). Thanks to the code released on http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/2ccts/releases/3.1. I have only basic NML skills and don't know what "pnml" is. But I think I can make the variety of vehicles of this fantastic GRF even wider.

And, what is the maximum number of vehicles in one GRF? 255? But when I looked at the codes I found there can be much more.

China Railways CR200J "Garbage Bin".

CR200J.png (10 KiB) Viewed 1660 times

[Emperor Jake]

From yesterday I started making a fork version of 2cc TrainSet, and I have successfully made one EMU - China Railways CR200J 'Garbage Bin' (train fans' nickname). Thanks to the code released on http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/2ccts/releases/3.1. I have only basic NML skills and don't know what "pnml" is. But I think I can make the variety of vehicles of this fantastic GRF even wider.

And, what is the maximum number of vehicles in one GRF? 255? But when I looked at the codes I found there can be much more.

CR200J.png

First of all, it'd be nice to see some more Chinese trains in OpenTTD, but I think it would be better off as a separate project and not an extension to the 2cc trainset. I've actually also recently been drawing Chinese locomotives based on 2cc set's graphics, and hope to make a new addon out of it sometime. (here's a DF8B and a DF11)

However, this is the thread for the old 2CC trainset, which is coded in NFO not NML. The thread for the newer NML version is here: viewtopic.php?t=69826
By the way, a .pnml file is just a partial nml file that gets combined into one big nml before the GRF is compiled. This is done so it's easier to find and edit stuff in a big set like this.

As for a maximum number of vehicles, don't worry about that as there are tens of thousands of possible vehicle IDs, no one should ever hit that limitation

[JohnFranklin523]

First of all, it'd be nice to see some more Chinese trains in OpenTTD, but I think it would be better off as a separate project and not an extension to the 2cc trainset. I've actually also recently been drawing Chinese locomotives based on 2cc set's graphics, and hope to make a new addon out of it sometime.

However, I would also like to change some configurations in the existing 2cc file. For example, the CRH380A EMU in the original file has too high loading speed (40). However, it is express train, not commuter train... and what about metro locomotives carrying mail?

There are also many typical non-Chinese trains not included in this set, such as Eurostar.

It is a pity that I cannot use Discord in China Mainland.