blueFISH Interim Ship Set - Teaser/First Alpha released!

[SimYouLater]

I've organised all the best ship sprites from FISH, RedFISH and SQUID, for the purposes of making an all-encompassing ship set while waiting for "Unsinkable Sam". Here is my reasoning:

FISH

+ Has a log tug and a couple other ships not seen in SQUID.
- Not well-balanced, missing barges, canal boats and other ships from later sets.

redFISH

+ Has two paddle steamers, canal boats and several ferries and hovercraft.
+ Balanced better than FISH.
- Is missing a few ships that were introduced in SQUID.

SQUID
aka FISH 2

+ Has most of the ships from FISH and RedFISH.
+ Balanced better than FISH.
- Is missing a few ships including the log tug from FISH, due to being a UK-themed set.
? May be worse-balanced than RedFISH.

Unsinkable Sam
Working title?

+ Assumed to be better balanced than FISH.
+ Might include ships past 2015. (Currently, using all available ship sets, the last ship that gets released is from Futuristic Ships aka "Mars Ships". This occurs in 2015, 2 years ago.)
- Has only cargo ships from past sets. (So far, at least. They will all be cargo ships, but since past FISH sets have had few cargo ships as far back as 1860, I assume more will be added.)
- Not released yet and likely won't be for a while.

BlueFISH
The proposal

+ Has all ships with completed graphics from FISH, RedFISH and SQUID.
+ Combined with Sailing Ships, WSF Ferry Set, NewShips and Futuristic Ships, sea transport would be covered from the early 1700s up until 2015.
+ Due to using GPL v2 graphics, no spriting is required.
+ Majority of code would likely be taken straight from past sets. Priority would go to redFISH, followed by SQUID and finally FISH; except for graphics, which always prioritize SQUID followed by the must up-to-date FISH graphics.
+ EDIT: Would not put duplicate ships on the vehicle list.
- I can't code vehicle sets. A town name set was already very difficult for me. Well, I managed a teaser.
- Might be redundant.
? Would require a parameter for forwards compatibility with Unsinkable Sam, allowing ships in BlueFISH which are also found in Sam to be disabled.

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Is anyone willing to code such a set? I understand if its too much work for too little benefit, but if I can get a coder willing to string together the bits from existing sets then it should be much easier.

Also, it goes without saying that BlueFISH would have to be GPL v2.

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EDIT:

Everything below will involve the latest release, the source code, and the change logs.

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The Teaser!

bluefish.grf

Latest version (Teaser)

(55.86 KiB) Downloaded 269 times

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The Source Code

As required by GPL v2, here is the source code of blueFISH. Keep in mind that, since I've essentially just made a fork/merger of the three existing FISH sets, the code is mostly modified from said NewGRFs, rather than being composed of original code. As such, I would like to thank andythenorth for all the assistance he's given me. I would not have made it even far enough to release the teaser without him, and I greatly appreciate that he gave me an NML file for SQUID which did not exist in the source code of SQUID; the code was instead compiled using a python script, which meant that without the NML I was completely stuck!

Without further delay, the source code:

bluefish-0.0.2a.zip

Latest source code

(2.15 MiB) Downloaded 165 times

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To-do List
- Make spreadsheet of vehicle stats so that programming can continue.
- Add all the remaining ships from FISH 0.9.2, redFISH and SQUID.

Wish List
- Add any extra, new ships from Unsinkable Sam.
- Add the ships from Sailing Ships (also GPL v2).

v0.0.1a - Mar 25, 2017
- First version
- Fastnet Paddle Steamer added

v0.0.1a - Apr 8, 2017
- Removed 'early_retire' from Fastnet Paddle Steamer; it should now appear when 'Vehicles Never Expire' is off
- EDIT: Sorry about this version having the same number as the first; it basically had to, as the only vehicle in the Mar 25, 2017 release couldn't even appear!

[Sylf]

Why not just load all of those ship sets in a game?

[SimYouLater]

Why not just load all of those ship sets in a game?

Because then you get duplicate ships. Several ships are graphically identical or even have the same name but different stats between FISH, RedFISH and SQUID. So you can't use them all, and you can't just use one.

[Pilot]

Why not just load all of those ship sets in a game?

Because then you get duplicate ships. Several ships are graphically identical or even have the same name but different stats between FISH, RedFISH and SQUID. So you can't use them all, and you can't just use one.

You can hide the ships that you don't want to use, and therefore, get rid of the duplicates.

[NekoMaster]

Its also a bad idea to load multiple sets that do the same thing with duplicate vehicles as your taking up valuable GRF Slots which in OpenTTD Trunk, the number of GRF's you can load is still limited.

Also, less GRF's loaded means better performance (especially for those on limited systems like Old PC, Netbooks, Chromebooks, Phones, and Tablets). It might seem trivial but to someone like me, every MB on a 2GB (or less) system counts. Only medium to high end android and ipad systems have more then 2GB of ram (which come at a price, even to people like us Canadians).

Anyways, I imagine that andy won't mind if someone uses their content so long as they get permission first and give due credit. I mean some of their stuff was used for the 600mm Narrow Gauge railway stuff.

I might not use ships often because in the last 5-6 years I've barely played any game/map long enough to warrent expanding to ships when I can afford it but lately I've been dusting off some games I haven't been giving much love in the last couple of years and starting to play them more. I haven't played counter strike go since 2014, or properly played OPenTTD since 2013, and apparently my last Disgaea 3 and 4 data/saves on my PS3 are from 2012...

I too would like to see a large combined ship set so I won't have to load up multiple sets like i do right now (I like to load FISH and SQUID because some ships are different enough to give some variety).

It would also be nice if Sailing ships could be added to BlueFISH to make a complete and comprehensive ship set. I'm sure some people will enjoy the selection of sailing, steam and diesel ships.

I would code for this but I only know how to make basic edits to NML to make non-articulated engines like I've done so far with NARS-Addon. I'm not very good at learning how to code anything so I'd be wasting my time trying to rap my head around learning to code ships if I don't figure out how to get anything working.

Perhaps someone can pick up the torch for this idea. I imagine the best thing to do would be to maybe make a template based on FISH or Unsinkable Sams code/style and go from there to make things easier to add and fix ships. Perhaps andy can provide a bit of help in that department (but that might not happen as I know andy is busy with their own stuff)

[SimYouLater]

Why not just load all of those ship sets in a game?

Because then you get duplicate ships. Several ships are graphically identical or even have the same name but different stats between FISH, RedFISH and SQUID. So you can't use them all, and you can't just use one.

You can hide the ships that you don't want to use, and therefore, get rid of the duplicates.

Its also a bad idea to load multiple sets that do the same thing with duplicate vehicles as your taking up valuable GRF Slots which in OpenTTD Trunk, the number of GRF's you can load is still limited.

Also, less GRF's loaded means better performance (especially for those on limited systems like Old PC, Netbooks, Chromebooks, Phones, and Tablets). It might seem trivial but to someone like me, every MB on a 2GB (or less) system counts. Only medium to high end android and ipad systems have more then 2GB of ram (which come at a price, even to people like us Canadians).

Anyways, I imagine that andy won't mind if someone uses their content so long as they get permission first and give due credit. I mean some of their stuff was used for the 600mm Narrow Gauge railway stuff.

I might not use ships often because in the last 5-6 years I've barely played any game/map long enough to warrent expanding to ships when I can afford it but lately I've been dusting off some games I haven't been giving much love in the last couple of years and starting to play them more. I haven't played counter strike go since 2014, or properly played OPenTTD since 2013, and apparently my last Disgaea 3 and 4 data/saves on my PS3 are from 2012...

I too would like to see a large combined ship set so I won't have to load up multiple sets like i do right now (I like to load FISH and SQUID because some ships are different enough to give some variety).

It would also be nice if Sailing ships could be added to BlueFISH to make a complete and comprehensive ship set. I'm sure some people will enjoy the selection of sailing, steam and diesel ships.

I would code for this but I only know how to make basic edits to NML to make non-articulated engines like I've done so far with NARS-Addon. I'm not very good at learning how to code anything so I'd be wasting my time trying to rap my head around learning to code ships if I don't figure out how to get anything working.

Perhaps someone can pick up the torch for this idea. I imagine the best thing to do would be to maybe make a template based on FISH or Unsinkable Sams code/style and go from there to make things easier to add and fix ships. Perhaps andy can provide a bit of help in that department (but that might not happen as I know andy is busy with their own stuff)

NekoMaster pretty much nailed it.

[planetmaker]

if I can get a coder willing to string together the bits from existing sets then it should be much easier.

I understand that. It's much easier even, if you did yourself tackle that. All code is readily available and you simply would need to make small modifications - thus could be a good way to get started; even more so as all ship NewGRFs you mention are basically from the same author, just different evolutions of the same idea - thus the work to coerce it into what *you* think that very set should look like should be relatively small.

None of the grf authors was born with the gift of coding NewGRFs - it's aquired knowledge. Knowledge anyone can aquire.

[Wahazar]

I also have idea to make new ship based on existing sets, which have some pro and cons.
For example, I like large capacities and prices of red fish set, but barges are unbalanced.
I also miss diversity of ocean and canal/river ships, which was introduced in earlier versions but dismissed later.
A new 'ship' which I want to add is wood raft without tug, available from 1700 - very slow, but very low running costs and no reliability loss.

[andythenorth]

Coding ships is pretty easy eh? You might as well get started

[SimYouLater]

Coding ships is pretty easy eh? You might as well get started

I ask because there is no tutorial for coding ships on the wiki. I've coded a town name set, going entirely off the tutorial. I've done a test on how to program a road vehicle, with similarly successful results. However, I "do coding" according to pre-made instructions with a bit of intuition and experimentation. It is beyond me to truly learn NML. I am willing to organise the stats of the ships on a spreadsheet for ease of use, but I am useless as a coder.

[andythenorth]

I am willing to organise the stats of the ships on a spreadsheet for ease of use, but I am useless as a coder.

In that case I hope your recruitment skills are good, as you will need to persuade someone else to achieve your goals for you

[SimYouLater]

I am willing to organise the stats of the ships on a spreadsheet for ease of use, but I am useless as a coder.

In that case I hope your recruitment skills are good, as you will need to persuade someone else to achieve your goals for you

**** it, I'll take a crack at it. Now that I've figured out what the .py files you used are for this should start to make sense.

[andythenorth]

Squid is more complex than you'd want to get started. It uses python for templating and compiling nml, but thats too much stuff to understand in one step.

The actual nml for ships is pretty straightforward. Again Squid makes it more complicated with things like changing speeds for loaded/unloaded, and sprites for moving/not moving etc. Also variable speed on a parameter. That isn't strictly needed, you just need a ship with properties, and some graphics

Here's the full Squid nml in all its complexity, which isn't in the repo because it's generated by the compile.

fish.nml

(231.37 KiB) Downloaded 180 times

Everything else is in the repo here https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository

[kamnet]

I am willing to organise the stats of the ships on a spreadsheet for ease of use, but I am useless as a coder.

In that case I hope your recruitment skills are good, as you will need to persuade someone else to achieve your goals for you

Let me tell you how that story goes.

You convince one of the most prolific coders on the board, and one of the most prolific drawers on the board, to join you in a collaboration of the greatest NewGRF set of all time. And you spend hours, weeks even, filling in your spreadsheet in a mad dash to get this done, because you're excited to see this set get published. Then your artist says that you're finding too much stuff for him to draw and you need to be more selective. So you kill yourself having to do just that. And then you wait forever for your artist to get everything drawn, because even when they're a sprite monster that can crank out sprites all the day long, it still takes some time, because of life. Then you wait for your coder to pull everything together and work on there code and then... THE TEASER! You put a sample file out to get everybody excited while you finish up work on the final product.

And then your coder has to step away because of real-world issues. And then your artist waits for a long enough time that he goes back to working on other projects that are ready to be finished. And then your coder never comes back because he got bored with the game. And then people start reporting various bugs in the teaser. And then your artist gets a new job that sucks up all of his time and no longer has time to work on this project.

And you're left with a half-finished NewGRF project that you cannot finish yourself because you don't have all the sprites and you don't have the code and even if you did you have no clue how to put it all together, nor do you have the time to learn yourself because you're just too busy yourself.

Not that I have any ill will towards artists and coders I've collaborated with. Life happens, and this is just a game, but man it can be disappointing to see your goal in sight and see that it's scuttled until you can get it going again.

[andythenorth]

but man it can be disappointing to see your goal in sight and see that it's scuttled until you can get it going again.

All in all, it's easier to just learn to code eh?

[SimYouLater]

In that case I hope your recruitment skills are good, as you will need to persuade someone else to achieve your goals for you

Let me tell you how that story goes.

You convince one of the most prolific coders on the board, and one of the most prolific drawers on the board, to join you in a collaboration of the greatest NewGRF set of all time. And you spend hours, weeks even, filling in your spreadsheet in a mad dash to get this done, because you're excited to see this set get published. Then your artist says that you're finding too much stuff for him to draw and you need to be more selective. So you kill yourself having to do just that. And then you wait forever for your artist to get everything drawn, because even when they're a sprite monster that can crank out sprites all the day long, it still takes some time, because of life. Then you wait for your coder to pull everything together and work on there code and then... THE TEASER! You put a sample file out to get everybody excited while you finish up work on the final product.

And then your coder has to step away because of real-world issues. And then your artist waits for a long enough time that he goes back to working on other projects that are ready to be finished. And then your coder never comes back because he got bored with the game. And then people start reporting various bugs in the teaser. And then your artist gets a new job that sucks up all of his time and no longer has time to work on this project.

And you're left with a half-finished NewGRF project that you cannot finish yourself because you don't have all the sprites and you don't have the code and even if you did you have no clue how to put it all together, nor do you have the time to learn yourself because you're just too busy yourself.

Not that I have any ill will towards artists and coders I've collaborated with. Life happens, and this is just a game, but man it can be disappointing to see your goal in sight and see that it's scuttled until you can get it going again.

All in all, it's easier to just learn to code eh?

Actually, with the NML file for SQUID I think I might be able to do this. Thanks, andy! I just wish I could get the .nml for redFISH as well. It too used the .py files, but LSky is long gone (2 years) and redFISH's stats were better balanced than SQUID so I was hoping to copy those wholesale. I guess I'll have to balance the ships from scratch.

[kamnet]

I just wish I could get the .nml for redFISH as well. It too used the .py files, but LSky is long gone (2 years) and redFISH's stats were better balanced than SQUID so I was hoping to copy those wholesale. I guess I'll have to balance the ships from scratch.

You can find LSky on the OpenTTD subreddit: http://reddit.com/r/openttd

[Alberth]

Thanks, andy! I just wish I could get the .nml for redFISH as well.

Here you go

[SimYouLater]

Thanks, andy! I just wish I could get the .nml for redFISH as well.

Here you go

Thank you. This was well-needed.

I've decided that rather than do the code from scratch, that blueFISH will be a merger of SQUID, redFISH and FISh code, to a degree that I'm just going to say that blueFISH is a fork of all three rather than its own thing.

[SimYouLater]

After 16 days of radio silence, I've decided to give a taste of what's to come. See the first post for the teaser.