TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

Moderator: Graphics Moderators

Eddi
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 7395
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 00:14

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by Eddi » 06 Jul 2011 11:21

At the start of the game, the earliest house that appears is calculated, and all houses introduced at that date will be available from the beginning of the game. "Old" house sets usually define houses from 1930 onwards. So if one set defines houses before 1930, then only those houses will be available before 1930.
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)

User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 04 Mar 2012 23:32

Population limits!
popn1.png
popn1.png (26.06 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
The current linear model.
popn2.png
popn2.png (34.62 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
The planned exponential model.

Gotta knock over the last few vehicles for UKRS, then work begins on proper 19th century buildings. :) And those town halls we mentioned...

Michi_cc
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer
Posts: 592
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 23:27
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by Michi_cc » 05 Mar 2012 02:10

Played around with it a bit, and yes, it is very nice that not every town will grow like crazy just because of some buses driving around :)

Can't think of much else that wasn't mentioned already, but I do think taking the OpenTTD city flag into account to profit from the different grow rates would be nice. And it would also indirectly allow players to balance the amount of TaI cities and towns. (A matching GameScript that controls town growth would be the absolute best, but of course a lot more work).

-- Michael Lutz

User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 05 Mar 2012 03:41

Michi_cc wrote:but I do think taking the OpenTTD city flag into account to profit from the different grow rates would be nice.
Sure, I would love to make sure every "(City)" was one of the "City" classes, but that flag isn't exposed to newgrf (or if it is, it isn't in the spec). Anyone seen an OpenTTD Developer around here? :D

Eddi
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 7395
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 00:14

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by Eddi » 05 Mar 2012 03:47

so what does var40 do then if not giving the city flag?
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)

User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 05 Mar 2012 05:25

Huh. Perhaps. :)

User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 14 Mar 2012 06:21

Ladies, Gentlemen, and Filth,

One of the most common complaints about TaI is the way in which towns keep building roads, even when the set prevents them from building houses. The resulting "empty network" of roads surrounding the town, while not necessarily unrealistic, is an eyesore and a pain to build around, critics say.

Today I did a little experiment with TaI to see if I could reduce that over-production of roads. I built 3 identical towns in the scenario editor like so, each a "medium" town with 3x3 road network;
testcase.png
testcase.png (54.44 KiB) Viewed 2428 times
and each with a different grf-coded behaviour.

One town grew as normal, as a control.
One town would stop building houses after one year, using the current TaI method.
One town would stop building houses after one year, use the new experimental code.

Each town was provided with 4 bus stops and a bus, to stimulate growth.

Please find the results of the experiment, after running the game on fast-forward for 30 years, attached below. :)
Attachments
tai_road_experiment.png
The results of the test.
(141.39 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

User avatar
FooBar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6559
Joined: 21 May 2007 11:47
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by FooBar » 14 Mar 2012 07:40

The experimental code appears to be doing what it's supposed to do. Well done!

User avatar
planetmaker
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer
Posts: 9278
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:44
Location: Sol d

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by planetmaker » 14 Mar 2012 07:47

Sweet, the result indeed looks much better (yes, I'm probably one of those mentioned critics of the empty road networks ;-) ). How does your new method work? Destroying houses at the same pace?

User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 14 Mar 2012 08:30

planetmaker wrote:How does your new method work? Destroying houses at the same pace?
Indeed. It builds "non-houses" which it immediately* removes via callback. I had my doubts that this would prevent road construction, but it turns out it does. :)

*where "immediately" means "within 256 ticks". At the moment I'm using the rough ground sprite as the graphics for the non-house in TaI, and there is a slight chance that players could "bump into" them while constructing around towns. Whether it would be better to use a more distinctive graphic I'm not sure; making them more obtrusive might make them even more confusing!

(note that the rough ground in the screenshots above is actual rough ground from cleaning up in the scenario editor, not a profusion of non-houses).

bokkie
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 326
Joined: 19 Jan 2007 19:26

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by bokkie » 14 Mar 2012 18:11

Make it a caravan? That way it's not weird if it's temporary and unbuildable. Just a random thought :)

User avatar
Leanden
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2621
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 19:25
Location: Kent

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by Leanden » 14 Mar 2012 18:15

Or brown ground tile with an excavator, so its like landscaping?
Image

User avatar
supermop
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1042
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 00:15
Location: Fitzroy North - 96

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by supermop » 15 Mar 2012 21:14

Fenced or other otherwise marked vacant lot - to simulate owned but undeveloped land?

User avatar
FooBar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6559
Joined: 21 May 2007 11:47
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by FooBar » 15 Mar 2012 21:55

I'm not sure how long 'max 256 ticks' is in real time, but on average it's probably just a few seconds. That means anything put on the tile will be gone very quickly. I'd put nothing on it, or maybe a small marker of sorts in transparent mode.

User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 15 Mar 2012 22:34

FooBar wrote:I'm not sure how long 'max 256 ticks' is in real time, but on average it's probably just a few seconds. That means anything put on the tile will be gone very quickly. I'd put nothing on it, or maybe a small marker of sorts in transparent mode.
Indeed, that's my thinking.

If you know it's happening, you can see it - the rough ground tile appears, then it goes brown as the house is removed. If you don't know it's happening, it's probably best that it's as unnoticeable as possible, right?


User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 15 Mar 2012 22:53

Or a dust devil (vacuum cleaner).

User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5383
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon
Contact:

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by PikkaBird » 07 Apr 2012 19:36

Image

Welcome to the rookery; come for the filth, stay because you died of cholera.

User avatar
Comm Cody
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1047
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 22:21
Location: In a galaxy far far away.

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by Comm Cody » 07 Apr 2012 21:08

Slums?

1860-1900 London, Here I come!
Something goes here, hell if I know.

User avatar
Bob_Mackenzie
Chairman
Chairman
Posts: 823
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 13:36

Re: TaI - introducing the scrabble board

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 07 Apr 2012 21:58

Nice sprites :)

Post Reply

Return to “Graphics Development”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests