FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[andythenorth]

Well you could perhaps combine some cargos together to free up some spaces

It's a consideration. Similarly, 'farm produce' covers all fruit, vegetables and grain, maybe even livestock.

[NekoMaster]

I dunno about merging Grain and Livestock, I still prefer having grain in silos or hoppers and live stock in stock wagons (or in some cases, pretend livestock can also be milk or dairy and shove it in a tanker)

When I was younger I did think of making a industry set of my own, a simplified expanded industry set that built on the TTD industries, and certain industries would accept goods for supplies to boost production like in FIRS. This way I'd have 2-3 more cargo slots for other things like "Generic Minerals" that could go to a "Chemical Plant" that would accept Minerals and maybe Oil or refined products to produce Chemicals or goods.

[andythenorth]

"Generic Minerals" that could go to a "Chemical Plant" that would accept Minerals and maybe Oil or refined products to produce Chemicals or goods.

I've been considering adding Salt cargo to Extreme:

• salt works -> salt -> chemical works -> chemicals, manufacturing supplies -> destinations
• salt works -> salt -> fertiliser & explosives plant -> farm supplies, engineering supplies -> destinations

But eh, I've started in on it a couple of times, but stopped because Extreme basically makes no sense, and just 'more' doesn't make it better.

[kamnet]

I like "Extreme" because it offers as many industries as possible, and I can decide for myself what chains to pursue or not. I won't object if you decide to start revamping this into something that more logical, as long as I'm maxed out and can continue to make choices for myself. One of the things I've not liked about the other economies is that they just feel too limited.

[andythenorth]

I like "Extreme" because it offers as many industries as possible, and I can decide for myself what chains to pursue or not

So on that front, if you had to choose between...

• 'everything is hyper-connected'
• 'multiple independent chains'

...which is more fun?

There are other questions, but eh, how does that one play out?

[leifbk]

So on that front, if you had to choose between...

• 'everything is hyper-connected'
• 'multiple independent chains'

...which is more fun?

Definitely the latter. The new Arctic, for instance, is plain boring.

I love the Extreme for precisely the same reasons as kamnet. But I wouldn't complain if the sugar beets and ditto refinery disappeared. It's a production chain that I rarely pursue, and the sugar refinery is ugly and out-of-place in a pre-1900 setting.

[robo]

There' s probably still no better supply chain simulator than Industry giant 2. While this game has to many "unimportant" products (but you can choose what you want to produce and transport, control and see the output of industries) the important energy and building material sectors are still missing, the railroad part is supereasy to build but unfortunately a bit boring.)
If you want to conserve food or fish, which certainly makes sense, you could put the fish in a can or other packaging materials (plastics, glass or cardboards)
Why not add a few endproducts like refrigerators, bicycles, cars, handys which make use of the steel and plastic industries?
Of course, this would make more fun with a supersimple demandsystem based on populaton numbers of towns and storage.

[Kalen]

So on that front, if you had to choose between...

• 'everything is hyper-connected'
• 'multiple independent chains'

...which is more fun?

I like having various different independent chains that I can individually decide whether to pursue or not, much like in vanilla (which is especially relevant for longer games). So I wouldn't want Extreme to be one big "chain of chains" that you necessarily must pursue from start to finish, covering every single defined cargo, in order to ensure you "do things properly", or to avoid drastically reduced productivity levels. That can be fun when I want a hard challenge, but I don't usually want a hard challenge like that.

However, I also like the idea of having supplies-style cargoes that I can use to vaguely connect said individual chains for a production boost, like a bonus. It's handy for when I want to go the extra mile without overcomplicating things or making it one big hyper-connected chain.

Why not add a few endproducts like refrigerators, bicycles, cars, handys which make use of the steel and plastic industries?

The problem with that is the limit of 32 different cargoes you can have in a running game. That could potentially work for smaller economies with highly specific but less numerous kinds of cargoes, but for a larger economy, or something like Extreme, the limit's just not enough to cover every chain like that.

[GarryG]

Why not add a few endproducts like refrigerators, bicycles, cars, handys which make use of the steel and plastic industries?

These are covered by the GOODS cargo.

[kamnet]

I like "Extreme" because it offers as many industries as possible, and I can decide for myself what chains to pursue or not

So on that front, if you had to choose between...

• 'everything is hyper-connected'
• 'multiple independent chains'

...which is more fun?

There are other questions, but eh, how does that one play out?

I'm definitely for multiple independent chains.

[andythenorth]

I'm definitely for multiple independent chains.

So I wouldn't want Extreme to be one big "chain of chains" that you necessarily must pursue from start to finish...

Ok that's useful feedback both thanks.

For the other big FIRS economies (http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/pus ... omies.html)...

• ..."In A Hot Country" has chains that are very independent, as the focus is simply on exporting to ports.
• ...by contrast, in "Steeltown" everything is connected, as it all feeds into the vehicles chain, which is then used to get more raw materials.

So "Extreme" might be quite carefully defined around multiple chains, linked only by supplies and such. However....

• "Extreme" might become redundant when large economies are added for temperate and arctic (tropic is covered by IAHC)
• Current extreme is very inter-dependent due to chemicals and manufacturing supplies, which was an accident, not a design goal, and is either bad (and should be designed out) or is good (and should be made to work better).

So eh

[andythenorth]

Coke Oven (work in progress). Hat tip to Zimmlock also viewtopic.php?p=640814#p640814

[Kalen]

So "Extreme" might be quite carefully defined around multiple chains, linked only by supplies and such. However....

• "Extreme" might become redundant when large economies are added for temperate and arctic (tropic is covered by IAHC)
• Current extreme is very inter-dependent due to chemicals and manufacturing supplies, which was an accident, not a design goal, and is either bad (and should be designed out) or is good (and should be made to work better).

This of course depends on what your vision for Extreme is, but in my mind, supplies type cargoes should definitely be treated as a bonus for the min-maxers or those who like connecting everything, as opposed to something absolutely necessary to run any chain in particular. You should be able to run a chain to a high potential without supplies, then reaching maximum potential if you decide to use them; otherwise, it's no longer truly independent.

I also don't think Extreme would necessarily become redundant once you have the other two larger economies because each climate has some unique industries, and in my mind, Extreme could combine them (as possible) into one economy for play in any climate.

All that said, if you decide to just discard Extreme altogether, I'd be fine playing with one of the larger economies instead either way.

In addition, I don't know just how much is possible with the NewGRF specification, but it'd be interesting if each climate-specific large economy could have its own gimmick like with IAHC and ports. If you did decide to #removeExtreme, you could even go so far as to have two large economies per climate as a substitute, one with an unconventional gimmick (besides supplies), another in standard vanilla style. But that might be overdoing it, although it could prove useful if you end up coming up with a lot of new industry ideas and have no clue where to put them once Extreme is obliterated.

[andythenorth]

More Coke Oven (unfinished eh)

[GarryG]

You going to make Coke another cargo? Or just use Coal to represent Coke as it similar and does the same thing.

[JacobD88]

I appear to have found a bug with FIRS; for some reason stations built next to industries no longer appear to be named after the industry. For example, building a station next to a Steel Mill will inevitably produce a station called "xxx Powerplant"...

I'm using r27855 (nightly) the problem is repeatable with NO GRFs loaded but FIRS 2.1.5 and only English (Additional) town-names selected.

Any help in fixing this would be appreciated. Many thanks.

It also occurs in games with the following GRFs loaded and MoreBritish+ selected (My standard setup ATM)

[+] Spoiler

Code: Select all

[preset-FIRS]
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686D6300|D4311C0E5AD43B6FC5767B4CA66244FE|GUI\morebritishtowns.grf = 
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6D620C00|E1DB74D22EF54328944DC767C4F8594F|Infastructure\marico.grf = 
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444E0C00|CD35704025292A559AD71A380F167257|vastfences\vastfences.grf = 1 1 2 4 0
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444E0B00|7C4178007B7E12E05FB1BF6A71D617B1|vastinfrastructure\vastinfrastructure.grf = 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
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52571208|DC83DAB2933FACCB91678D4F75ABCCC6|generic_cars-0.4\cars.grf = 
41501202|B13DD8FB0D7C34CACAC2FE68BD137BB9|heqs_heavy_equipment_set-1.5.2\heqs.grf = 9 9 1 1 1 1
44440401|C860AE279528E08E10360CB4BE507EBE|RoadVeh\pb_hovs.grf = 
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44440A11|D701E3219A08351B1705A7860644A9A2|general_av8ion-1.0\genav8.grf =

[andythenorth]

You going to make Coke another cargo? Or just use Coal to represent Coke as it similar and does the same thing.

It's a cargo http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/pus ... .html#coke

[Alberth]

You going to make Coke another cargo? Or just use Coal to represent Coke as it similar and does the same thing.

I updated the cargo table on behalf of andy, there is a proper COKE cargo now: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index. ... CargoTypes

Edit: Ninja-ed by andy

[andythenorth]

I appear to have found a bug with FIRS; for some reason stations built next to industries no longer appear to be named after the industry. For example, building a station next to a Steel Mill will inevitably produce a station called "xxx Powerplant"

That's intended behaviour Changed in 2013: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fir ... 8f79f772ec

[andythenorth]

Better