FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[NekoMaster]

Always nice to have new things eh?

[Snail]

Another question, what happened to your Sugar Cane (SGCN)? I can't see it in your docs anymore, although it's still in the NewCargoes wiki. Did you merge it with SGBT by any chance? (If so, thank you )

[andythenorth]

Another question, what happened to your Sugar Cane (SGCN)?

Sugar Cane is just not used in any economy currently.

It might make a return in future - sugar cane vehicles are quite unique

[andythenorth]

I am removing this vehicle set list from the FIRS online docs.

• it's out of date
• it can only be published when there's a FIRS release
• I have no interest in testing vehicle sets to maintain it

It might be worthwhile moving it to the OpenTTD wiki (and updating it). I won't do that. If anyone does want to, I can link the wiki from the FIRS docs. Let me know here.

Code: Select all

-------------------
Vehicle Set Support
-------------------
Furthermore you need a vehicle set that supports the FIRS cargos. Any vehicle
set with proper Cargo Classes support should do that by default. The OpenTTD
vehicles will not be able to transport all FIRS cargos. The following sets
available from the OpenTTD built-in download manager are known to support FIRS:
- Train Sets:
  - 2cc Train Set
  - North American Renewal Set (NARS) 2
  - Old Wagons with New Cargos 1.1
  - UK Renewal Train Set v3
  - DB Set XL (with FIRS extension - partial support)
  - UK Railway Set (UKRS2)
  - OpenGFX+ Trains
  - Iron horse
- Road Vehicle Sets:
  - eGRVTS v1.0
  - HEQS (Heavy Equipment Set)
  - OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles
  - Road Hog
- Ship sets
  - Squid (FISH 2)
  - New Ships (partial support)
- Plane Sets
 - AV8
 - GeneralAv8ion
 - Plane Set

[leifbk]

Code: Select all

  - eGRVTS v1.0

I suppose that eGRVTS v2, released in 2013, also is supported.

[andythenorth]

FIRS 3 needs cargo icons eh? Someone want to draw some?

Also a few of the current ones could be better (rcyc, pipe).

[NekoMaster]

I am removing this vehicle set list from the FIRS online docs.

• it's out of date
• it can only be published when there's a FIRS release
• I have no interest in testing vehicle sets to maintain it

It might be worthwhile moving it to the OpenTTD wiki (and updating it). I won't do that. If anyone does want to, I can link the wiki from the FIRS docs. Let me know here.

Code: Select all

-------------------
Vehicle Set Support
-------------------
Furthermore you need a vehicle set that supports the FIRS cargos. Any vehicle
set with proper Cargo Classes support should do that by default. The OpenTTD
vehicles will not be able to transport all FIRS cargos. The following sets
available from the OpenTTD built-in download manager are known to support FIRS:
- Train Sets:
  - 2cc Train Set
  - North American Renewal Set (NARS) 2
  - Old Wagons with New Cargos 1.1
  - UK Renewal Train Set v3
  - DB Set XL (with FIRS extension - partial support)
  - UK Railway Set (UKRS2)
  - OpenGFX+ Trains
  - Iron horse
- Road Vehicle Sets:
  - eGRVTS v1.0
  - HEQS (Heavy Equipment Set)
  - OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles
  - Road Hog
- Ship sets
  - Squid (FISH 2)
  - New Ships (partial support)
- Plane Sets
 - AV8
 - GeneralAv8ion
 - Plane Set

Should also mention that the NARS Add-on supports FIRS as thats what I have loaded when I'm testing things while coding. In the future there might be an OMEGA nars that combines all of the NARS stuff with my NARS Add-on stuff.

[andythenorth]

FIRS 3.0.0 Alpha 4 now on bananas or http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... 0-alpha-4/

Not compatible with any previous FIRS release.

-- Changes since Alpha 3 --

• Updated translations (thanks translators)
• Improved online docs http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... arted.html
• Renamed Manufacturing Supplies to Packaging, to avoid confusion between this ordinary cargo and Engineering Supplies / Farm Supplies, which have special behaviour
• Remove Packaging from all economies except Extreme (makes for much more satisfying gameplay in Basic economies)
• Remove Packaging from Furniture Factory and Textile Mill
• Detect OGFX+Industries as an incompatible grf (Alberth)
• Rename Fertiliser and Explosives Plant to Ammonia Plant (much shorter eh)
• Adjust industry map colours
• Adjust cargo weights, payment rates
• Adjust order of economies in parameters menu (breaks savegames)

[Brumi]

• Renamed Manufacturing Supplies to Packaging, to avoid confusion between this ordinary cargo and Engineering Supplies / Farm Supplies, which have special behaviour

What about strings like "To keep this level, deliver {SIGNED_WORD} crates of supplies within three months."? Do any of these refer to Manufacturing Supplies? Because if that's the case, I think it would be useful to use a different string for Packaging.
It seems that there's no need for that based on a quick look at the strings, I just want to be sure

[andythenorth]

What about strings like "To keep this level, deliver {SIGNED_WORD} crates of supplies within three months."? Do any of these refer to Manufacturing Supplies?

Nah, and that's exactly the reason I've changed it to avoid that risk of confusion . Only Engineering Supplies and Farm Supplies have special behaviour, Manufacturing Supplies do not

[Marvinyo]

Hi!

I'm barely new to OpenTTD but very new to FIRS, so maybe this is a stupid question, or already addressed: Is it possible somehow to use all 63 cargoes, and 80 industries at the same time? Or is there a game "core" limitation for this? (I'm thinking sadly the latter, because ECS also has maximum 31 industries)

Maybe this is an extreme wish, but it would be awesome

Suggestion: Is it possible to give all "water-based" industry (Bulk terminal, Fishing Grounds, Fishing Harbour, etc.) a dock (terminal?) for ships? Just like Shoals or Sandbanks. I mean this is wierd, because they having the graphics that would imply this

Thanks!

[kamnet]

I'm barely new to OpenTTD but very new to FIRS, so maybe this is a stupid question, or already addressed: Is it possible somehow to use all 63 cargoes, and 80 industries at the same time? Or is there a game "core" limitation for this? (I'm thinking sadly the latter, because ECS also has maximum 31 industries.

The game limits the number of cargoes and industries. "Extreme" economy pretty much pushes this to the limit.

[andythenorth]

I'm barely new to OpenTTD but very new to FIRS, so maybe this is a stupid question, or already addressed: Is it possible somehow to use all 63 cargoes, and 80 industries at the same time?

Nah, there is a hard limit on cargos of 32. More than this might not be fun anyway
There can be 128 industries per newgrf, with a hard limit of 240 industries in any OpenTTD game.

Suggestion: Is it possible to give all "water-based" industry (Bulk terminal, Fishing Grounds, Fishing Harbour, etc.) a dock (terminal?) for ships? Just like Shoals or Sandbanks.

Nah, there are two problems with this.
1. They'd have both dock and a heliport (there's no way in the spec to just have a dock); there was an attempt to change this long ago, but it wasn't completed for multiple reasons.
2. Stations (docks) built into industries can be used by all players (in multiplayer), which is...weird.

[andythenorth]

FIRS 3.0.0-alpha-5 is now on bananas. This is a translations-only release, and includes translations updated between 2017-07-17 and 2017-08-02

Also available here http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/

[Yellow Cab]

Hi! I've just joined the translators team to assist in translating FIRS to Dutch. Amazing to see so many new industries and cargos in the new alpha. Keep up the good work!

[Fairyfloss]

Hi!

First off, I really like FIRS, especially the new Steeltown Economy, but I have two questions.

1. Is the fact that none of the new cargoes appear on ISR's station tiles the fault of ISR not having received an update yet, or is there another reason?

2. How come the map generation can place coastal industries (Ports, Bulk Terminals, etc.) in places I can't? Both in-game and in the scenario editor I can only place them in two orientations, while the random industry placer when you generate a map can place them in every orientation, even if I destroy a pre-placed port and then try to build it manually in the scenario editor, no matter how many times I click it always claims the site is unsuitable.
If it's of any help, I'm using JGR's Patchpack instead of 'normal' OpenTTD.

[andythenorth]

1. Is the fact that none of the new cargoes appear on ISR's station tiles the fault of ISR not having received an update yet, or is there another reason?

ISR would need an update You could try and persuade mart3p to do it, or maybe someone else might pick it up, ISR is open source
http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/isr

CHIPS has support for most of the FIRS 3 cargos viewtopic.php?p=1187757#p1187757

2. How come the map generation can place coastal industries (Ports, Bulk Terminals, etc.) in places I can't

Agreed. These industries are really hard to place, I often have trouble. I thought it was improved 2 years ago http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7064 but it seems not.

The coast shape has to be exactly right, and even then sometimes I can't get some orientations to build. I haven't confirmed this, but sometimes bulldozing the coast tiles seems to help. I don't know if it's a FIRS bug, an OpenTTD bug, or not a bug at all

[Fairyfloss]

2. How come the map generation can place coastal industries (Ports, Bulk Terminals, etc.) in places I can't

Agreed. These industries are really hard to place, I often have trouble. I thought it was improved 2 years ago http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7064 but it seems not.

The coast shape has to be exactly right, and even then sometimes I can't get some orientations to build. I haven't confirmed this, but sometimes bulldozing the coast tiles seems to help. I don't know if it's a FIRS bug, an OpenTTD bug, or not a bug at all

The problem is that the coastline is right though, as I can't place the coastal industries in specific orientations (Northwest & Northeast) even if the map generator placed an industry there, I delete it with Magic Bulldozer and then try to place it back on exactly the same spot, even if I wait a while so the grass regrows/water flows back. So far I've only noticed it in Steeltown (since it's the only Economy I've played so far in FIRS 3), so maybe it has something to do with that?

[andythenorth]

So far I've only noticed it in Steeltown (since it's the only Economy I've played so far in FIRS 3), so maybe it has something to do with that?

Nah, it's the same code for all economies

Can you paste screenshots of the NW and NE coasts where you are trying to place? Then I can try and reproduce and diagnose. I've definitely experienced similar issues, but have never pinned it down.

[Fairyfloss]

So far I've only noticed it in Steeltown (since it's the only Economy I've played so far in FIRS 3), so maybe it has something to do with that?

Nah, it's the same code for all economies

Can you paste screenshots of the NW and NE coasts where you are trying to place? Then I can try and reproduce and diagnose. I've definitely experienced similar issues, but have never pinned it down.

I produced some images of me trying to place the industry on places where the map generator put them without success. In both cases I tried putting it on every tile that was affected by me destroying the port in the Map Editor, even clicking several times in the hope it worked with no success. Also included is one example of it working, and some examples of tiny islands where the map generator can place industry but the player can't except in two possible directions

Spoiler'd for convenience.

[+] Spoiler