FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[andythenorth]

What do you thing that is unlikely? That someone will add extrazoom into your set?

Yes, I think that's very unlikely to happen.

[TadeuszD]

FIRS breaks compatibility often. I don't mind breaking vehicle sets.

Is this list at least updated by you?

[Wahazar]

STEL is often specially treated by vehicle sets (gooseneck trailers, heavy flat cars etc), changing it to METL is a very bad idea IMHO. I have better idea: keep STEL and add ALUM cargo to FIRS extreme, you have still empty slot (and you don't mind about breaking compatibility with vehicle sets using GEAR cargo, aren't you?)

[andythenorth]

Is this list at least updated by you?

No, I'm banned from the NewGRF wiki.

[TadeuszD]

No,...

So, where can I find up to date list of FIRS cargoes and their parameters important for vehicle sets authors (i.e. cargo classes)?

[stefino_cz]

What do you thing that is unlikely? That someone will add extrazoom into your set?

Yes, I think that's very unlikely to happen.

Okay...give one-two year to us

[Alberth]

No,...

So, where can I find up to date list of FIRS cargoes and their parameters important for vehicle sets authors (i.e. cargo classes)?

Andy took the question a bit too literally, I think.

The up-to-date FIRS list of cargoes is obviously in the FIRS repository. Look for a Python file named "cargo<something>.py" iirc, and it's all there.

As for the NewGRF list, Andy can't do it, but every now and then he asks for some else to do it instead. Have a look at the edit history of the page to see when it was last updated. As for being up-to-date, some NewGRF authors don't want non-released information on that page while you do seem to want that included.

[andythenorth]

So, where can I find up to date list of FIRS cargoes and their parameters important for vehicle sets authors (i.e. cargo classes)?

Here for unreleased FIRS, which changes often http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/pus ... tml#cargos

Here for 'stable' FIRS, but current stable release is FIRS 3 Alpha, which makes nonsense of 'stable', sorry http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... tml#cargos

Classes aren't included there as they're not useful information for a vehicle set author, but labels are there

[Wahazar]

Goods have TOWNGROWTH_WATER effect?

Classes aren't included there as they're not useful information for a vehicle set author, but labels are there

Cargo classes are very useful for vehicle sets, aren't they introduced just for convenient and general vehicle programming?

[andythenorth]

Goods have TOWNGROWTH_WATER effect?

Town effects stuff is a bit half-assed, both in OpenTTD, and in how FIRS uses it

Cargo classes are very useful for vehicle sets, aren't they introduced just for convenient and general vehicle programming?

Classes are a solid way to support unknown cargos. They're not needed in docs for known cargos though

[juzza1]

Classes are a solid way to support unknown cargos. They're not needed in docs for known cargos though

Sometimes the cargo classes contain information not directly available in the code reference/cargo page, for example, if a certain bulk cargo should be carried in open or covered wagon.

[TadeuszD]

Classes aren't included there as they're not useful information for a vehicle set author...
Classes are a solid way to support unknown cargos. They're not needed in docs for known cargos though

I'm vehicle set author and I disagree with you.
Cargo classes is very usefull tool to manage both kinds of cargoes - existing and unknown.
Good example is ordinary open wagon, which can carry all FIRS and ECS cargoes with CC_PIECE_GOODS class except CC_REFRIGERATED and CC_OVERSIZED. This combination supports ~30 different cargoes, but it doesn't need specify ~30 cargo labels. It allows to generate lightweight and easy to configure vehicle set.
Only special cargoes, such as steel (which is traditionally tranported on flatbed wagons instead of covered wagons), must be programmed using specified cargo labels.

Full list of cargoes (including toyland and deprecated cargoes) contains now about 100 labels. This number doesn't break NewGRF cargo table limit (256 items) because of re-using many labels by different industrial sets. I hope, re-using labels will be still good practice in development of industrial sets...

[andythenorth]

Using classes to support known cargos can cause disappointment. Specifically for (1) explicit cargo graphics (2) consistency of cargo refits with different industry sets (or versions of industry sets). Classes aren't stable.

For that kind of explicit support, use the actual thing (label), not a proxy for the thing (classes).

I can try and dig up the previous forum arguments if it helps.

[I'm not sure if we're arguing about this or agreeing, I played too much World of Tanks today]

Sometimes the cargo classes contain information not directly available in the code reference/cargo page, for example, if a certain bulk cargo should be carried in open or covered wagon.

Like a hint, to help vehicle set author understand what the cargo is?

The classes are in the FIRS code if that helps you.

Or someone requested more cargo description in docs, which I added for most cargos (but not info on refits, I leave that to vehicle author to decide) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/pus ... argos.html

[TadeuszD]

Using classes to support known cargos can cause disappointment. Specifically for (1) explicit cargo graphics (2) consistency of cargo refits with different industry sets (or versions of industry sets). Classes aren't stable.

You proved that cargo labels are not stable too...

Vehicle set authors have 2 options:
- they can respect cargo configuration from industry set,
- they can completely redefine transportation mediums for each cargo

I prefer first option, because I believe that industry set author knows better, how his cargoes should be supported. If you change the sulphur to be liquid - voila! you can transport it in tank wagons in my trainset. The same cargo from different industry sets can be supported in different ways! Of course, I assume that the changes are well-thought-out...
The only one thing I need is cargo classes configuration to decide, should I prepare special graphics for new/modified cargo, or the default graphics is enought...

[ufiby]

FIRS with pleasure.
1. Add setting: in the world do not create, only the players themselves to Finance
2. Power Plant should look different timeline and not the original (like graphics power Plant ECS)
3. Add tourists
Enjoy!

[ucetcislo1]

2. Power Plant should look different timeline and not the original (like graphics power Plant ECS)

Totally agree!...........

3. Add tourists

totally disagree!.........

Enjoy.

[V453000 :)]

Me disagree everything

Not enjoy.

[andythenorth]

2. Power Plant should look different timeline and not the original (like graphics power Plant ECS)

Nah, I'm not drawing a power plant. There are other priorities.

Also World of Tanks Blitz happened to me. So FIRS stopped. For now.

[Bob_Mackenzie]

Also World of Tanks Blitz happened to me. So FIRS stopped. For now.

I took me 5 years to get over WOT and get back to OTTD

[andythenorth]

I took me 5 years to get over WOT and get back to OTTD

I can empathise with that, and I've only been playing 10 days.

But FIRS is 9 years old, so eh, good things take time