FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[DanMacK]

Feel free to use any of my graphics (with proper credit of course)

[andythenorth]

Feel free to use any of my graphics (with proper credit of course)

Thanks! Are all of your industry graphics on the forums somewhere (like that NAIS thread)? Do you have any gems lurking anywhere that you haven't shown yet?

Also, anyone know how to get hold of Lifeblood? I want to use the auto plant, it's a work of art! I've pm'ed him, but no response so far.

cheers,

Andy

[OzTrans]

Nice project, keep going ...

... The metal chain in CanSet has this about right (although I did have a steel mill with 17,000t of coal waiting to be processed) ...

Thank you, but I didn't go to extremes with that. That coal will be used over time; a player has the choice to temporarily suspend deliveries until the coal has been used up; new deliveries may be useful somewhere else, but isn't wasted. You could go one step further, if there is real excess, just either reduce the stockpile for coal (or for cargoes that don't produce anything); if it is iron ore (or cargoes that turn into something), simply up the production rate for a while.

... anyone know how to get hold of Lifeblood? ...

He is a very busy man nowadays ... if you have any queries, let me know and I'll pass it on. As for the autoplant; do you have the sprites ? Snowy and all, including matching roads. I think you can use it, with proper credit of course.

[nicfer]

One question, this industry set will change any of the other climates industries? Being locked to temperate is a bad idea since there are people who prefer subartic, subtropical or even toyland over that.

Also, are you planning on taking cargos from subartic/subtropical to put them on temperate or viceversa? Would this be compatible with the lumbermill for temperate grf?

Another thing, are you planning on a recycling plant industry? That has been requested too many times, but they should appear not before 1980. It could transform waste into another cargo.

As for the quarry that transforms into a waste dump when it goes empty, I suggest that after you transport too much of it, it fills up and closes, leaving dirty land on the squares it occuped.

Last, if there would be a third waste processing industry, it should be a incinerator, which accepts, well, waste and produces contamination (not transportable ).

EDIT: I think this should have opengfx-like graphics, there are already too much with original based graphics, let's go for something different.

[FooBar]

One question, this industry set will change any of the other climates industries? Being locked to temperate is a bad idea since there are people who prefer subartic, subtropical or even toyland over that.

This set will change all climates (except toyland). Most industries from this set will be available in all climates and some industries will be climate-dependant.

Another thing, are you planning on a recycling plant industry?

There will be a 'waste' industry chain. Including a recycling centre and an incinerator. Since pollution isn't measurable in TTD, it will generate power instead. (Now that isn't transportable either, but will have a function in this set)

[planetmaker]

Another thing, are you planning on a recycling plant industry?

There will be a 'waste' industry chain. Including a recycling centre and an incinerator. Since pollution isn't measurable in TTD, it will generate power instead. (Now that isn't transportable either, but will have a function in this set)

Nice So.... will it help towns grow, like with default industries cargo, food or water does? That'd be awesome... Or maybe boost factory production, if nearby a factory (or similar industry)?

Also good to know, that it will work in all climates

[andythenorth]

Also, are you planning on taking cargos from subartic/subtropical to put them on temperate or viceversa? Would this be compatible with the lumbermill for temperate grf?

Echoing what FooBar said, FIRS is a complete set of cargos and industries for all the climates except toyland.

Another thing, are you planning on a recycling plant industry?

There will be a 'waste' industry chain. Including a recycling centre and an incinerator. Since pollution isn't measurable in TTD, it will generate power instead. (Now that isn't transportable either, but will have a function in this set)

Nice So.... will it help towns grow, like with default industries cargo, food or water does? That'd be awesome... Or maybe boost factory production, if nearby a factory (or similar industry)?

There is no easy way to have electricity generation either boost town growth or boost industry production. However certain industries will need to be located near a source of electricity.

EDIT: I think this should have opengfx-like graphics, there are already too much with original based graphics, let's go for something different.

Well OpenGFX is a significant achievement and means players will be able to download OpenTTD without needing a copy of the original TTD files. However there are two reasons I would prefer this set to be in the TTD style:
1. I prefer the original style, that's just taste, there's no objective argument about it
2. All the major vehicle, station and town sets are in the TTD style. I want FIRS to fit in with ISR, UKRS, NARS, DB Set, US Town Set, NA Roads, etc etc.
The set will be GPL, and the source for the graphics and code will be made available. If anyone wants to do an OpenGFX style version they would be welcome

Test layout for an Aluminium Mill:

test_aluminium_mill.png (127.13 KiB) Viewed 6477 times

cheers,

Andy

[Roujin]

It seems your aluminium mill has shrinked by a factor of two somewhere between paper and computer

[Eddi]

which fits perfectly fine with the screwed up TTD scale

[CommanderZ]

I think both scales are OK. I prefer the second (from the colourful mockup) as it would fit better with cities and ISR stations.

[Lilman424]

I really like the idea of having it fit in with ISR. George's ECS vectors are wonderfully drawn, but do not fit in with ISR at all. The coal mine, for example, does not look anything like the ISR coal mine station (understandably, since the station is based off of the original coal mine.)

Of course, I'm not suggesting conforming entirely to ISR, but some synergy is nice.

[ostlandr]

Love the idea! Do I dare hope for more North American style industries?

A few points/suggestions/comments:

1. I can live without stockpiling.

2. Steel mills in the 1800s (and until recently) used Coke to fuel their furnaces. Coke is to coal what charcoal is to wood. So for steel, a more accurate production chain would be Coal --> Coke Oven (accepts coal, produces coke) --> Steel Mill 1856-1996 are about the dates for coke-powered mass production of steel, from the invention to the end of the Bessemer process (1968) and open hearth process (1995). At this point, any surviving steelmakers are using either the basic oxygen furnace or electric furnaces, so the coke industry dies at this point.

3. Likewise, Iron ore (or copper ore in Tropic) would be shipped to a concentrator, then the semi-refined ore sent to the mill. So a production chain for this would be Ore Mine --> Concentrator (accepts fuel and ore, produces Pig Iron/Copper) --> Steel Mill/Copper Mill

4. The iron ore concentrators in the 1800s should accept Iron Ore and produce Pig Iron. Pig Iron is hauled in gondolas. Factories should accept Iron up until the early 1900s sometime. If you want to get fancy/accurate, in 1946 or so the iron ore concentrators shoud produce Taconite pellets (hauled in ore hoppers.)

More of similar nonsense later.

[andythenorth]

This version of the aluminium mill is slightly taller, and the layout has changed to match to ISR tiles.

test_aluminium_mill_2.png (147.33 KiB) Viewed 5776 times

@ Ostlandr: I can see your point, but we're very constrained on cargos and none of the chains will be that detailed; the reverse in fact. Given the 32 cargo limit, if you wanted that level of detail the best way might be a dedicated 'metal industries' grf, with 32 cargos specific to the metals industry. Not knowing much about metals, but off the top of my head that might include: iron, taconite, limestone, coal, coke, slag, scrap steel, scrap iron, hot metal (in bottles), wrought iron, cast iron, steel, stainless steel, tinplate, etc etc. You'd have to draw and code it though

cheers,

Andy

[el koeno]

There is no easy way to have electricity generation either boost town growth or boost industry production. However certain industries will need to be located near a source of electricity.

So how would that work? Aluminium mills would not work at all without a properly functioning power plant nearby? Or will their productivity be merely decreased?

[CommanderZ]

That integration with ISR looks really lovely. Can't wait to put my hands on a first testing version

[andythenorth]

So how would that work? Aluminium mills would not work at all without a properly functioning power plant nearby? Or will their productivity be merely decreased?

1. Players won't be able to build certain industries unless they are within n tiles of a power source. This will be fairly generous towards the player. BTW the FIRS set will actively encourage industry prospecting and construction (it's a good way to use up excess cash).
2. Certain industries will produce more if a power plant is within n tiles. There is no way in the current newgrf implementation to check whether that power plant is producing. However power plants will close if not supplied with what they need (again, this will be generous towards the player).

The plan is clear, but this is all subject to play testing

@ CommanderZ: errrm, don't hold your breath too much, we'll be a while

cheers,

Andy

[CommanderZ]

There is no way in the current newgrf implementation to check whether that power plant is producing.

Then you might try request a change (improvement). If you have already dropped TTDP, then your work is slightly simplified

errrm, don't hold your breath too much, we'll be a while

Any ETA?

[andythenorth]

There is no way in the current newgrf implementation to check whether that power plant is producing.

Then you might try request a change (improvement).

Seems that supporting checking something at another industry would be difficult/impossible See the first couple of posts of discussion here:
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=40751

cheers,

Andy

[el koeno]

So how would that work? Aluminium mills would not work at all without a properly functioning power plant nearby? Or will their productivity be merely decreased?

1. Players won't be able to build certain industries unless they are within n tiles of a power source. This will be fairly generous towards the player. BTW the FIRS set will actively encourage industry prospecting and construction (it's a good way to use up excess cash).
2. Certain industries will produce more if a power plant is within n tiles. There is no way in the current newgrf implementation to check whether that power plant is producing. However power plants will close if not supplied with what they need (again, this will be generous towards the player).

The plan is clear, but this is all subject to play testing

@ CommanderZ: errrm, don't hold your breath too much, we'll be a while

cheers,

Andy

That sounds pretty cool. Hope it will turn out okay in-game! I also just realized that powerplants closing down might be reason enough on itself to use this GRF.

As for the construction/prosepecting thing: that sounds like it might be nice. I always liked the fact that you had to build your own lumbermills in sub-tropical.

[FooBar]

Any ETA?

When it's done ofcourse!
We'll try to get it done within a year; don't expect a playable release any time soon. Don't expect any release any time soon for that matter...