Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by mrMann »

Yep, that's exactly what I meant :)

Maybe you could do the same with tram depots and RV depots? And does this cover MAG-LEV and monorail? (haven't been able to check that yet)
Hmm, what should I put here...
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by JacobD88 »

mrMann wrote:
JacobD88 wrote:Image
Yep, that's exactly what I meant :)

Maybe you could do the same with tram depots and RV depots? And does this cover MAG-LEV and monorail? (haven't been able to check that yet)
Glad you like it, it's only a mock-up, but it's how i envision the final product to be... Large, customisable, depot and service complexes that compliment and can be incorporated into stations, behaving much like them, you won't just have to plan stations, you'll have to plan servicing too :mrgreen:

Maybe one day i'll look at the other stuff, but i really want to get the standard train depots finished first, the servicing/depot-station srpites alread do electrified and un-electrified tracks, even third-rail, so that will never be an issue, but modern-looking monorail and maglev servicing-stations are a long time in the future I'm afraid :wink:

EDIT: I could probably just make the existing servicing-station sprites when finished available to all track types until i draw monorail and maglev specific ones, so yes it will work for monorail and maglev when released but you'll lose the existing modern sprites that come with OTTD or OpenGFX to the ones above until i draw them track-specific sprites :D

In fact anyone who wants to join me on this project and make sprites for bigger monorail/maglev depots post them up here, they have to fill a game-tile (Except for non-track-tiles) to allow for joining from all nearby tiles, and they have to match the default TTD style, not OpenGFX, if you can also make them available in all the following angles too that'd be great :D

For Servicing-Stations please provide a monorail/maglev version of this...

Image

And for bigger depots, these angles...
And for bigger depots, these angles...
And for bigger depots, these angles...
bigdepot.png (2.74 KiB) Viewed 8083 times
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by planetmaker »

Know Issues:
- There is a noticeable area within the entrance to the depot that is occupied by grass... I would remove this, but it doesn't work with all track-sets as a result. Suggestions are welcome.
You _might_ make replacing this grass by something else a dependency upon a grf parameter. E.g. by default nothing is drawn in that place (as now). If grf parameter 1 is set to 1, you draw some additional (or other sprite) which also covers that area.

It might be a bit over the head for this purpose, though, and much more work than it's worth.
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by JacobD88 »

planetmaker wrote:
Know Issues:
- There is a noticeable area within the entrance to the depot that is occupied by grass... I would remove this, but it doesn't work with all track-sets as a result. Suggestions are welcome.
You _might_ make replacing this grass by something else a dependency upon a grf parameter. E.g. by default nothing is drawn in that place (as now). If grf parameter 1 is set to 1, you draw some additional (or other sprite) which also covers that area.

It might be a bit over the head for this purpose, though, and much more work than it's worth.
I like that idea, i wonder if it may be worth making some concrete base to match the TTD Default or the ISR set, that the track, then depot is placed over. this should mean that the player can still see their custom track-set, and you don't get any clipping :) Thanks for the suggestion I'll work on a base over the coming days :]
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by JacobD88 »

+Bump+

Some developments on the future of (O)TTD depot functionality and "servicing stations"

racetrack has produced a very nice, and promising patch to allow bi-directional entry and maybe pass-thru to the existing depot here... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 12&start=0

This already works nicely with the Bigger Depot GRF, and as Ammler pointed out, it is possible to add one of racetracks depots into a future depot-station graphics set to function as a "depot-station", however at the moment racetrack would have to make depots act as simply plain track tiles that trains could pass through without stopping and stop trains entering from both sides, otherwise you would end up with two trains entering one track of a "servicing station" and seemingly disappearing, something would have to be done to make racetracks depots aware of other trains on the track entering the depot.

This is probably the largest difference between what i envision with "servicing stations" and racetrack has already achieved in part, racetracks patch modifies the existing depots to be drive-thru, and maybe in future versions pass-thru, but with servicing stations i mostly want to achieve the ability to service engines at stations with these special tiles, not build them or remove them from the tracks at stations (and therefore render racetracks depot patch obsolete)...

Bi-directionality, station-like construction, etc. would come by default with the behaviour of servicing stations been based on the station code...

In short "servicing stations" aims at allowing engines to have a "go to station xxx for servicing" command, upon which trains will simply move into a free station track, stop, and move off having been serviced, where-as racetracks work simply gives existing depots bi-directional entry and maybe pass-thru

Maybe one day servicing stations will also become suitable for building trains (as i mentioned this as a possibility in this thread sometime ago), but after some thought i would rather not render OTTD functions totally obsolete, dump all over racetracks patch, and force users to use "servicing stations" to build and service engines, one of the things i love about all TTO/TTD games is choice :) and it would be nice to offer users the option to build depots as normal, add racetracks features, and add to the existing depot system by allowing trains to be serviced at stations with "servicing stations" :mrgreen:

In other news, still no word from Ben_K on using his train washer, so i've began to draw my own, using his as a template, other sprites for servicing-stations are coming along slowly, and i'm happily going about looking at servicing station rolling stock for eye-candy :D

EDIT: Also now have permission from PikkaBird to use a few select sprites from the UKRS set for modification in the rolling stock for "servicing-stations" :mrgreen: :bow:

The UKRS sprites I'm using are as follows...

0-4-0 Saddle Tank (Steam) - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations", I will create an 0-6-0 version of this too
0-6-0 Tank Engine (Steam) - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations"
0-6-0 Pannier Tank (Steam) - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations"
Diesel Shunter (Diesel) - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations", also adapt stats to be a Class 08/09
EE 'Type 1' (Diesel) - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations", also adapt stats to be a Class 20
Vossloh 'G1206' (Diesel) - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations"
Utility Van - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations"
Brake Van - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations"
Tanker Wagon - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations"
Speedlink Van - Re-drawing for "servicing-stations"

Also going to draw the following engines/trains/units for the "Servicing-Stations" set...

Track-ballast Train
Ballast Truck
Crane Train
Tunnel Maintenance Train

In addition to the Bigger Depots style Station sprites, the "servicing-stations" buildings and structures GRF will contain the following

1) UK-Style Water Tower
2) UK-Style Coal/Tender Loader
3) UK-Style Re-fuelling Point
4) Train Crew Hut
5) Depot/Siding Office
6) UK-Style Signal Box
7) UK-Style Points Switcher

Further suggestions are welcome, and the request for bigger depot versions of the monorail and maglev depots in a Default TTD style remains open :wink:
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by racetrack »

I had a bit of a look through the code yesterday to figure out how hard it is to make stations you can service in. Here's a brief summary of what needs to be done, though I'm glossing over heaps of details, and I haven't actually tested any of it. Also this might be a bit too developerish for the graphics forum, sorry about that.

Causing a service when a vehicle enters is trivial. Add a call to VehicleServiceInDepot() just before v->BeginLoading() is called in the "enter station" function for the appropriate vehicle. For trains, that'd be in TrainEnterStation() in train_cmd.cpp. That will do it for every station though; presumably you'd want this to be based on some newstation flag or similar to decide if it should be done. I know absolutely nothing about GRF coding though. Looking at newgrf_stations.h, I see these a concept of a station class, which currently only has "default" and "waypoint", so "depot" might be the way to go there.

Presumably you'd also want to have it so that these stations don't accept or supply cargo. It appears that that could be blocked based on the above flags/class in UpdateStationAcceptance() for acceptance and FindStationsAroundTiles() for supply.

Next comes getting there. Adding a "also service" order seems fairly straightforward. If the intent was to allow servicing in all stations, then you need to make room in OT_STATION orders to allow this. My reading suggests that refit_subtype is unused for this order type and could be borrowed (with appropriate accessors to hide the ugliness). If there won't be any dual use cargo & service stations, then its much easier; just borrow the loading bits, that is loading in a service station actually services. Appropriate UI for this is fairly straightforward.

The last, and probably most difficult thing, is to make it so that service stations come up when a train is looking for a service. One way would be to modify the pathfinders to also look for service stations when looking for a depot, but maybe thats not what you want, as a service station isn't useful if you're intending to sell a train. Unless you want to be able to build/sell trains in these stations to, but I'm trying to ignore that for the moment.

A better way would probably be to add a special case to the auto-servicing stuff to make it look for a service station if it doesn't find a depot, or vice-versa. That is, to actually walk the track near where we are to see if there's something nearby. I need to study this part of the code more to figure out what's required.

Thats it for now. No commitment from me to actually do anything about it, though if get some more exact requirements (and maybe give a little guidance with the GRF stuff) I might take a look; its certainly interesting.
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by JacobD88 »

racetrack wrote:... Presumably you'd also want to have it so that these stations don't accept or supply cargo. It appears that that could be blocked based on the above flags/class in UpdateStationAcceptance() for acceptance and FindStationsAroundTiles() for supply...

Thats it for now. No commitment from me to actually do anything about it, though if get some more exact requirements (and maybe give a little guidance with the GRF stuff) I might take a look; its certainly interesting...
Hi, many thanks for the help on what areas to look at, as to station cargo acceptance/supply, initially i agree making stations with these depot functionalities not accept/supply cargo is probably the best way to go as it gets the basic functionality into the game sooner.

However, ultimately it would be better to make only tiles that contain depot/service sprites not supply or accept cargo, for example, you have a 4-track station, two tracks are composed of standard station tiles, the other two depot or service tiles, only trains on the two standard tracks will be able to load or unload, whilst trains on the depot/service tracks will only be allowed to service there, or pass through with a speed penalty.

The main reason i would appreciate the ultimate outcome is that it would still allow people to link stations through the distant-joint-station patch, and save on space by building servicing into existing stations, as you wouldn't need to build separate stations for each function, though if you chose to build both dedicated and non dedicated service stations, and had the space, you still could. As i mentioned in your thread, i think the best way to approach any patch or function with (O)TTD is to allow choice, and i think with your patch and vision and the work on servicing stations, as well as the original depot and its applicable patches, the servicing portion of the game could become very interesting for all...

Hope to hear more from you soon,

Many thanks

Jacob

PS can you PM me with regards to what GRF information or sprites you require?
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by racetrack »

Ooh, so you want cargo platforms and service platforms in the same station. Does that mean that the orders need to be able to distinguish the different platforms of the station? So a "load at station" order will aim for a different platform than a "service at station" order? Can you have a platform that will do both? Can an existing platform be changed into the other type? And is the type always tied to a platform, or would it be possible to eg add a non-rail "machine shop" tile to an existing station to give the cargo platforms service capabilities?

As to my questions with GRFs, I think it'd probably be better if I pulled apart a simple station NewGRF and put it back together to see what makes it tick. Judging by the number of people that have been able to successfully produce GRFs its clearly not that complicated; I just haven't touched it before. I'll have a much better idea of what to do (and what to ask) once I've done this.
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by JacobD88 »

racetrack wrote:Ooh, so you want cargo platforms and service platforms in the same station. Does that mean that the orders need to be able to distinguish the different platforms of the station? So a "load at station" order will aim for a different platform than a "service at station" order? Can you have a platform that will do both? Can an existing platform be changed into the other type? And is the type always tied to a platform, or would it be possible to eg add a non-rail "machine shop" tile to an existing station to give the cargo platforms service capabilities?
Yep, that's exactly how i envision service stations ultimate goal

As to your questions regarding orders, i am hoping that the pathfinder (YAPF probably) will work out, with maybe some additional pointers, which tracks can permit servicing by the presence and location of service-tiles in a station, if a platform contains both station and service tiles (which i wouldnt see many people making unless they want to abuse the functionality and "realism" that service-stations could introduce) i suppose trains could be both serviced and load/unload on the same track section. But for general application i would assume the user created dedicated areas/platforms/tracks in a station for servicing as per the 4-track example above. This would indeed mean that trains would have to leave one platform if serviced, to move to another for loading/unloading, which would make for some interesting station planning, especially if the user uses the forbid 90 degree turning patch :mrgreen:

Changing the functionality of a platform/track should be made to be as simple as building the new function-tile (standard or service) over an existing tile, so for example, using the 4-track station example, you could replace the third tracks service-tiles with standard station tiles and it would become suitable for loading/unloading but lose the servicing aspect for that track/platform leaving only the fourth platform/track to service

In the immediate future though i see it only easy to implement that a single tile present in a station will permit servicing and load/unload accross the entire station, we could work on making it tile and track/platform specific later unless it is immediately easy to implement functions as above

Regards

Jacob
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by JacobD88 »

Just a quick update, all is progressing well with the accompanying Servicing-Stations rolling-stock set, with a huge thanks to PikkaBird i have permission to use and re-draw a few select pieces of the UKRS and i've got permission from Born Acorn to play around with the Generic Buffers sprites to make them compatible with other track sets, so these will appear with the Servicing Stations tiles at some point.

In the meantime however, here's a preview/WIP of the new 0-6-0 Saddle Tank i've been working on that will be amongst the rolling stock :mrgreen:

It's based on PikkaBird's 0-4-0 Saddle tank in the UKRS
Large Preview
Large Preview
060-SaddleTank-JD2009-1_LARGE.png (2.25 KiB) Viewed 824 times
0-6-0 Saddle Tank
0-6-0 Saddle Tank
060-SaddleTank-JD2009-1.png (1.15 KiB) Viewed 6138 times
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Re: [REL.] Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 (+ Servicing-Stations [WIP])

Post by JacobD88 »

JacobD88 wrote:... here's a preview/WIP of the new 0-6-0 Saddle Tank i've been working on that will be amongst the rolling stock :mrgreen: ...
I've decided to release it as a single engine for the time being for people to see in it action, so here it is...
060STJD1w.GRF
0-6-0 Saddle Tank
(2.4 KiB) Downloaded 225 times
It accompanies the UKRS nicely and sits just below the 0-6-0 Tank engine in HP, Cost, and Running Cost. It also, annoyingly, replaces the Kirby-Paul Steamer, i haven't worked out what i need to change in the nfo to remedy this yet, i know it is to do with IDs, but i need a free ID that will not alter the UKRS, UKRS Addon, or Default Engines, so any help on that would be great

In addition there is a one-pixel alignment error on the purchase/available vehicles screen, i just need to change a -6 to a -8 in the nfo, there are no alignment errors (that i can find) on the track :wink:

I naturally give PikkaBird and his UKRS on which it is based a huge amount of credit


EDIT: Updated with newer version of time 29th/5/2009 1.41pm (BST)


EDIT 2: 10/6/2009

The Bigger Depots GRF, as well as been the first newgrf on BaNaNaS has also just hit 18,000 downloads!!!! I never thought this would become so popular :mrgreen:
It also appears to be the most downloaded file too :wink:
18,000!!!!
18,000!!!!
bd03_18000_1.png (29.12 KiB) Viewed 5590 times
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by ZxBiohazardZx »

revive from the dead bump +(possibly) request to move to suggestions once again

anyone know if the " servicing stations" where developped and/or drawn as he stated earlier?
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by JacobD88 »

ZxBiohazardZx wrote:revive from the dead bump +(possibly) request to move to suggestions once again
anyone know if the " servicing stations" where developed and/or drawn as he stated earlier?
I'm still working on them, though mostly focussing on the graphics side atm. The only real news is that the Servicing Stations Set will include a parameter to select UKRS scaled or PJ1K scaled rolling stock and engines to make it compliant with PikkaBirds wonderful sets.

I've also got a new Bigger Depots depot that gives the appearance of a corrugated iron engine shed and will be working on a new monorail shed too

Finally, family life is taking over a little, as i've got a 20-month son who seems to be heading towards having Asperger's, like myself, so he's taking quite a lot of my time away from the set whilst i ensure he is OK

As to the service station patch itself, i'm currently waiting for racetrack to continue work on his projects, and once drive through depots is complete, i will proceed from there so the Service Stations Patch works with and not against his work. In the mean time i'm taking the chance to learn C++ on a few other minor non TT projects so when it comes to produce a complete patch for the Servicing Stations project i will hopefully be able to release something half-stable quite soon after returning to work on it all

The main thing this project is far from dead :mrgreen:




PS Bigger Depots now has 43,000+ downloads via BaNaNaS :mrgreen:


EDIT 29th/5/2010

It appears that regardless of GRF ordering, the nutracks and UK railway tracks sets overwrite the Bigger Depot Sprites with their own, i am working on changing the bigger depots GRF to provide compatibility with these sets and give parameters to select which depot is used with which track

I have updated the To-Do list on the FP of this thread with a few other bits and bobs

Project is not dead, but i am in need of a coder for NFO purposes and Servicing Stations Patch work

A Modular Depots Project has sprung up here ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=48605 ), though it's only eye-candy at present, it looks interesting :mrgreen:
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by JacobD88 »

OK,

With the release of the new rail type support into the nightlies, up to 16 in total, the bigger depot GRF no longer works with all track sets

To get round this I'm trying to think of a system that will allow a player to select the track ID for each of the depot designs (there will be four at my next release; the existing brick depot, a modern depot, a monorail/maglev depot and a narrow gauge depot)

So far i can only envision a grf parameter system, one parameter for each track id, with a value 1,2,4,8 defining the depot to use for that track.

So for example

a value of 1 would be a brick depot
a value of 2 would be a modern depot
a value of 4 would be a monorail/maglev depot
a value of 8 would be a narrow gauge depot

A typical set of parameters for say, nutracks, could therefore be

1 1 4 4 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 8 8

Giving

Very Low Speed - Brick Depot
Very Low Speed w/ Catenary - Brick Depot
Monorail - Maglev/Monorail Depot
Maglev - Maglev/Monorail Depot
Low Speed - Brick Depot
Low Speed w/ Catenary - Brick Depot
Medium Speed - Brick Depot
Medium Speed w/ Catenary - Brick Depot
High Speed - Modern Depot
High Speed w/ Catenary - Modern Depot
Very High Speed w/ Catenary - Modern Depot
3rd Rail w/ Catenary - Brick Depot
3rd Rail - Brick Depot
Track Planning - Brick Depot
Narrow Gauge - NG Depot
Narrow Gauge w/ Catenary - NG Depot

Can anyone think of a better way of going about things before i start digging into my Bigger Depot NFO's? Also, is this even possible? Or am i going to have to tailor a release to each track type release?

Cheers

Jacob
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by JacobD88 »

Hi all,

Just a request for some aid with the Bigger Depots NFO, i'm currently working on a minor update to the existing GRF (which will become v0.4), simply to overwrite all rail types defined in a game when the Bigger Depots GRF is in use with the current bigger depot graphics as a stand-in till i get my head round adding the rest, but am struggling with my Action0 for defining the rail-types which the depot will be applied too...

The main reason for doing this is that whilst NuTracks does now work with bigger depots on most track-types, Pikkas Finescale tracks define their own depots and i want to blanket override that when the Bigger Depots GRF is running

Currently the nfo looks like this, and i know it's wrong. Can't get my head round how to format Action0 correctly and i'm not sure if i need to delete Action5 now...

Code: Select all

// Automatically generated by GRFCODEC. Do not modify!
// (Info version 7)
// Format: spritenum pcxfile xpos ypos compression ysize xsize xrel yrel
    0 * 4	 08 00 00 00
    1 * 132  08 07 19 06 08 01 "Bigger Train Depot" 00 "A larger train depot, original graphics by Snorbuckle, Coded by Jacob Deuchar 2011 with help from the forums" 00
    2 * 5	 00 10 01 12 16
    3 * 5	 0A 01 06 27 04
    4 sprites/bigdepot.pcx 66 8 09 11 16 17 4
    5 sprites/bigdepot.pcx 98 8 09 45 64 -9 -29
    6 sprites/bigdepot.pcx 178 8 09 11 16 -31 4
    7 sprites/bigdepot.pcx 210 8 09 45 64 -53 -29
    8 sprites/bigdepot.pcx 290 8 09 45 64 -53 -29
    9 sprites/bigdepot.pcx 370 8 09 45 64 -9 -29
Thanks

Jacob
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by DJ Nekkid »

If you want the same gfx for everything, then the easiest thing would probably be:
-action1
-action2

-action 9 that checks if tracktype "xyzn" is (not) defined and skip theese:
-action 1 with only the railtypelabel defined
-action 3 that ref the above action 2
-action 10 (target of skip)

If you want different gfx, then you have the actions 1 and 2 "inside" the check
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by planetmaker »

Supermop basically just writes a very similar thing. Maybe it's an idea to cooperate?
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=52970
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by JacobD88 »

Thanks planetmaker i wasn't aware of his work apart from the modular sheds. Interesting to see he's on depots now too :D Will contact him soon

DJ Nekkid i will have a go at rewriting the nfo with those actions, thanks for the list
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by DJ Nekkid »

as i were on my cellphone i made a typo, after action9 its supposed to be action0 and not 1...
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Re: Bigger Depots GRF v0.3 [REL.] + Servicing-Stations [WIP]

Post by LukasTT »

Hello,

I am using bigger_depots.0.3/bigdepot.grf and I am wondering how to actually build bigger depots like in the images in this thread. When I build more than one adjacent depot, they behave like two individual depots. Linking them by clicking with control key pressed doesn't work either.

Lukas
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