Sea Planes [proposed set, looking for info]

[Zephyris]

With the steady development of the newGRF ports branch and the introduction of the vehicle pool I think it would be good to make a seaplane set, if only for testing/development purposes! Unfortunately whilst I can code and create the graphics I have absolutely no knowledge of real life aircraft and seaplanes... So, is there any interest in this set? Would anyone be interested in researching some seaplanes which could make a nice balanced set of aircraft?

The eventual aim of the set would be 10-15 aircraft in dual company colours with takeoff/landing and passenger/cargo graphics. The set would be loaded with any of the major plane sets (default, planeset, av8) by use of the vehicle pool.

[SquireJames]

I will certainly help with the research element. The only issue is that post-1945 seaplanes were pretty much abandoned as a commercial venture. The Saunders-Roe Princess was the last flying boat built for commercial purposes I think, (although it never went into service, was used by the RAF as a troop carrier if memory serves)

[EXTspotter]

That isn't true. Think of all the small planes like Otters and Beavers with floats. They may not count as seaplanes but its as closeas you'll get these days; then again seeing as all of the canadian operators with old 737-200s which are ice runway capable, its only a matter of time until they have floats on em lol

[Zephyris]

In some ways that makes it easier, I can just make them up! However it would be good to see more modern proposals for seaplanes for guidance in that case...

[Sarin]

Most of seaplanes were operated between world wars and shortly after. So, if you want to keep this GRF close to reality, around 1960-2010 you will have available only sea helicopters and perhaps some prototypes, and some small arcrafts with capacity less than 50 passengers. After like 2008, you can start inventing your own . Who knows, perhaps with global warming, oceans will rise and ground based aircrafts will no longer be option for reaching some touristic destinations like polynesia...

Anyway, something for the start. Find these aircrafts at Wiki for specs and images: Short Solent, Short Sandringham, Sikorsky VS-44, Boeing 314, Latécoère 631, Grumman Mallard and Saunders-Roe Princess.

Balancing seaplanes to be usable will be difficult and they will certainly be of very limited use, perhaps only on maps with many small islands. Also difficult will be making some aircrafts amphibious while some will be only water based.

If you want to really make it, I can help you with finding info, and all the stuff that does not actually involves programming or creating graphics

Edit: there has been already a few seaplanes made, look here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... a&start=20

[SquireJames]

Well, yes okay there are still floatplanes around, but TTD deals with airliner types more than 6 or 7 seat light aircraft, and no major passenger carrying floatplane or flying boat has been built since 1945. (with the exception of some Russian jet floatplanes I've seen, but they were military)

[Sarin]

Well, speaking about capacity there will always be a problem...most of seaplanes were build like luxury liners, carrying quite a low number of passengers overseas. For example, Short Solent has capacity of 34 passengers I think. Just tell me, will an aircraft with capacity of 34 and speed 273 mph be usable at 1946-1950 era? I think largest commerecial seaplane ever was S-R Princess, with 105 passengers and speed 360 mph. Also, seaplanes have generally higher running costs that land based aircrafts, due to water corrosion and less efficent hull shape.

[chrisbryant99]

All this is true, i'm afraid, but it could still be fun!!! However, there is one seaplane that hasn't been mentioned here, that had a huuuuuuuuuge cargo capacity!! Or rather, would have, i should say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spruce_goose

EDIT: Upon further research, i have found that seaplanes, or rather, amphibious planes have not yet died!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-200. However, i think it may be a struggle to find interesting designs after the WW2 era. With the advent of jet technology, transatlantic flying boats sadly died.

[Sarin]

Two words about this plane: Epic Fail.

Edit: it was about Goose, not BE-200 Another edit, BE-200 was already made by someone as GRF.

[hjxbf]

Another famous seaplane with limited success would be the Dornier Do-X, with a massive amount of dual engines on the roof!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_X

[richk67]

With the steady development of the newGRF ports branch

LOL Errr... I havent done anything on this for months now. I have hit a major roadblock - I need to share a whole load of code with the newstations code, and I have found it impossible for my limited capabilities. I have also a) lost some interest, b) not got enough time to code (real life - moving house, work, and in gaming life Ive got into an absorbing MMO wargame).

So I dont know when I might do any more NewGRF_ports development.

Current status for seaplanes is pretty good though. You can define that a seaplane is water-capable only, or can land at hard runways as well. Water-only seaplanes can only be built at, land at (or be routed to) seaplane airports.

I have regularly used the Be200 .grf that Grigoriy created. What would be really nice would be to add a wake graphic that appears under the aircraft when it is moving on water. This may need me to report back the water-state of the current tile in an aircraft variable, but I have not looked at that at all.

[chrisbryant99]

Where can we get seaports from rich?

[Zutty]

With the steady development of the newGRF ports branch

LOL Errr... I havent done anything on this for months now. I have hit a major roadblock - I need to share a whole load of code with the newstations code, and I have found it impossible for my limited capabilities. I have also a) lost some interest, b) not got enough time to code (real life - moving house, work, and in gaming life Ive got into an absorbing MMO wargame).

So I dont know when I might do any more NewGRF_ports development.

Current status for seaplanes is pretty good though. You can define that a seaplane is water-capable only, or can land at hard runways as well. Water-only seaplanes can only be built at, land at (or be routed to) seaplane airports.

I have regularly used the Be200 .grf that Grigoriy created. What would be really nice would be to add a wake graphic that appears under the aircraft when it is moving on water. This may need me to report back the water-state of the current tile in an aircraft variable, but I have not looked at that at all.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *deep breath* OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

We wont expect you to finish it if you no longer want to, but do you think its possible to salvage any the part you've already done?

[chrisbryant99]

Two words about this plane: Epic Fail.

Edit: it was about Goose, not BE-200 Another edit, BE-200 was already made by someone as GRF.

I wouldn't say it was an Epic Fail. It has it's critics, sure, who said it wouldn't fly, but i prefer to think positive . But as an exercise in proof of concept, it was a complete success. Howard Hughes showed that it was quite possible to have such a huge plane, and developed some useful manufacturing techniques in the process....then promptly went mad

The BE-200 has been made as a stand-alone(?) GRF, true, but that doesn't stop anybody from remaking it, should they want to. Pikka Av8 set and Planeset both have 707's

[Roujin]

I'm just wondering about one thing.. what sort of niche would seaplanes fill in OpenTTD? Or doesn't it actually make any sense but is only there for eyecandy?

[CommanderZ]

They are far smaller than any other airport (which is a huge pro in mountainous/havily urbanized areas or in limited terraforming games). And they look cool

[Roujin]

Well, aren't they exactly as big as a small airport (only with half of their area on water)? And I'd bet only planes without the "fast plane" flag would be allowed to land there (at least without the extra crash chance), just like with the small airport.

[Sarin]

Yes, sea airports are same sized as small airports, But 3/4 of them is at water, and guess what's often the only flat area around?

[Roujin]

Yes, sea airports are same sized as small airports, But 3/4 of them is at water, and guess what's often the only flat area around?

Well, I've hardly met the situation where it wouldn't have been possible to place at least a small airport - if it's not flat by itself, it's not hard to make it so with the overflowing cash you usually have in OpenTTD. Heck, in later stages of the game, you could make enough space for an intercontinental airport in the middle of the ocean...


So the question remains - where's the niche for sea planes?

They would have their meaning (apart from eyecandy) if at least in some time on the TTD timeline, there were Sea-only-planes that are more efficient (e.g. have more capacity) than normal planes at the same time.

[Sarin]

For example...you don't always have A LOT of money. Try playing some more rough and mountanous games, and you'll find terraforming attempts making local authorities VERY angry at you.