George's Long vehicles V4 beta4 is out (07 sep 2007)

[George]

When do the larger freight trucks (lorries) come available? I'm in 1956 and I've had nothing but the Opel since the 30s. I thought I remembered something newer coming along in the late 40s. Or is that just the way it's supposed to be? There really ought to be something then if there isn't.

http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/ids4.html
Navistar comes in 1957

[krtaylor]

Ah, and I see you've reserved two slots to fill in this gap, very nice. Looking forward to seeing the complete V4!

[George]

Ah, and I see you've reserved two slots to fill in this gap, very nice. Looking forward to seeing the complete V4!

LV4 is stopped. I'm waiting for a coder to improve RVs code to start LV5, where vehicles would be articulated. Currently both TTDP and OTTD do not provide required support for ARVs.

[krtaylor]

Well, the older vehicles wouldn't be articulated - or at least, wouldn't be really long - so would it be possible to do an interim version adding just those? That's where the really inconvenient gap is.

[Railwaymodeler]

How about a White Manufacturing Corp. semi? Those were popular in the postwar 1940s. There's a model of one at the hobby shop, it even has an Aero trailer with tarp on it, I think that would be cool. I'll have to hunt for some pics of this.

Thing is, in TTD scale, it will be very similar to the International truck from 1957. I think small 20 foot dryvan box trailers for goods and food and such, would make the difference.

[umarizal]

Wonderful graphs ... however... the prices are totally unreal, very very very very low for a group truck and trailer.

Up to the 3 1/4 the prices are more real. But they were able to nevertheless, to be larger for the groups truck/trailer

The costs of maintenance of the groups truck/trailer should be much larger than of the simple (2 or 3 axes) trucks, after all, they possess very more tires.

Example:
- Small Truck - 22T - 3 axes - US$ 160,000.00
- Big Truck - 40T - 3+3 axes - US$ 280,000.00

The values are just an example. I just wanted to show a certain proportion between the value and the size of the trucks

As larger the size, it should be larger: the load capacity, purchase value and maintenance cost.

[George]

Wonderful graphs ... however... the prices are totally unreal, very very very very low for a group truck and trailer.

Up to the 3 1/4 the prices are more real. But they were able to nevertheless, to be larger for the groups truck/trailer

The costs of maintenance of the groups truck/trailer should be much larger than of the simple (2 or 3 axes) trucks, after all, they possess very more tires.

Example:
- Small Truck - 22T - 3 axes - US$ 160,000.00
- Big Truck - 40T - 3+3 axes - US$ 280,000.00

The values are just an example. I just wanted to show a certain proportion between the value and the size of the trucks

As larger the size, it should be larger: the load capacity, purchase value and maintenance cost.

Prices were calculated in proportions to trains to make trucks usable. If I'd use higher values, there would be no profit to use trucks instead of trains

[DanMacK]

In general, I've found that prices of about 1/10 work well for TTD (Locos cost 300K instead of 3 Million for example) It keeps things in proportion with the game revenues

[umarizal]

Prices were calculated in proportions to trains to make trucks usable. If I'd use higher values, there would be no profit to use trucks instead of trains

Yes, I agree with you, but... The price of the small trucks is much higher than of the big trucks.

A small truck cost US$ 100,000.00 while a big truck with trailer cost US$ 35,000.00

Is necessary to change the relationship among the prices of the trucks with trailers and the common trucks without trailers... The purchase price and the maintenance cost.

Think well about this...

[George]

Prices were calculated in proportions to trains to make trucks usable. If I'd use higher values, there would be no profit to use trucks instead of trains

Yes, I agree with you, but... The price of the small trucks is much higher than of the big trucks.
A small truck cost US$ 100,000.00 while a big truck with trailer cost US$ 35,000.00
Is necessary to change the relationship among the prices of the trucks with trailers and the common trucks without trailers... The purchase price and the maintenance cost.
Think well about this...

Currently it is impossible to specify running cost separately for the tuck and the trailer. Also, you should take inflation into account (I have a filling that you play with inflation off). It would make costs for later trucks higher.

[umarizal]

Currently it is impossible to specify running cost separately for the tuck and the trailer. Also, you should take inflation into account (I have a filling that you play with inflation off). It would make costs for later trucks higher.

No no no... sorry, but you didn't understand me. I didn't refer to this.

The one that I wanted saying is that the prices should be very different among the trucks with trailer and the small trucks without trailer.

Ex:

1. Trucks with double trailers - HIGH PRICE (to buy and for maintenance) and HIGH CAPACITY OF CARGO
(high price because it includes price of the truck and of the trailer)
_/=|_|==========|_|===========|
|-O----OO------------OO--OO-------------OO-


2. Trucks with single trailer - HALF OF PRICE (to buy and for maintence) and HALF CAPACITY OF CARGO
_/=|_|============|
|-O----OO---------------OO-


3. Trucks without trailer - THE SMALLEST PRICE OF TRUCKS (to buy and for maintence) and SMALLEST CAPACITY OF CARGO
_/=|_|====| or _/=|_|====|
|-O--------OO- |-O--------O--

Did you understand me now friend?


*in Brazil, we use 3 axes in the truck, and until 3 axes in each trailer, but that doesn't come to the case

[Snail]

Hi George (and all),

I'm currently writing down the road vehicle list for the French Set (trucks, buses and trams). I hope I won't open a can of worms here... but is there any widely-accepted standard in terms of numbers of IDs to reserve to each of these three categories?

If not, are there at least any guidelines to make a new set as compatible as possible with the existing ones?

[wallyweb]

are there at least any guidelines to make a new set as compatible as possible with the existing ones?

Road Vehicle ID Range Usage Proposal

[Snail]

Thanks Wally!! I guess I missed that one
So, the road vehicle part of the FRSet will be compatible with other sets, but incompatible with the default vehicles, following the second scheme found here. (we do need 36 IDs for buses, and that's a bit "too" little already).

How about OTTD? Will a road vehicle set be able to use more than 88 IDs by using Peter1138's patch?

[umarizal]

No no no... sorry, but you didn't understand me. I didn't refer to this.

The one that I wanted saying is that the prices should be very different among the trucks with trailer and the small trucks without trailer.

Ex:

1. Trucks with double trailers - HIGH PRICE (to buy and for maintenance) and HIGH CAPACITY OF CARGO
(high price because it includes price of the truck and of the trailer)
_/=|_|==========|_|===========|
|-O----OO------------OO--OO-------------OO-


2. Trucks with single trailer - HALF OF PRICE (to buy and for maintence) and HALF CAPACITY OF CARGO
_/=|_|============|
|-O----OO---------------OO-


3. Trucks without trailer - THE SMALLEST PRICE OF TRUCKS (to buy and for maintence) and SMALLEST CAPACITY OF CARGO
_/=|_|====| or _/=|_|====|
|-O--------OO- |-O--------O--

*in Brazil, we use 3 axes in the truck, and until 3 axes in each trailer, but that doesn't come to the case

Did you all understand me now, my friends?

[George]

Did you all understand me now, my friends?

I suppose yes, but price research I did shows, that this is not correct. I'll give more details later

[NCarlson]

Has anybody split this into separate truck and bus packages, more like version 3? I like the whole set, but this version doesn't let me set it up to have all the North American buses at in the same climate...

[FooBar]

Thanks Wally!! I guess I missed that one
So, the road vehicle part of the FRSet will be compatible with other sets, but incompatible with the default vehicles, following the second scheme found here. (we do need 36 IDs for buses, and that's a bit "too" little already).

How about OTTD? Will a road vehicle set be able to use more than 88 IDs by using Peter1138's patch?

If you need more IDs, you could borrow some from an other range. Put the least important busses in the 'borrowed' slots, so that if a player loads another set over your set, he or she would still be able to use both sets.

With Peter's patch, you can (if I'm not mistaken) load multiple sets at the same time, while still having all vehicles available. The maximum number of vehicles per set would still be 88, but you could split your vehicles over two or more sets.
With Peter's patch, the RV-ID Recommendation is of no relevance, because no vehicles will be overwritten.

[LoWang]

Am I doing something wrong or it is just impossible to have trams along with long vehicles v4?
I tried CStramset 0.1 and Generic Tram Set v0.4 and all trams disappear once I activate long vehicles
Do I understand right that George's long vehicles are just road vehicles without trams yes? I play OpenTTD.

[Wile E. Coyote]

You must load tram GRF after LV4.