Moderator: Graphics Moderators
First I'd like to thank our Creator and Chief Designer, DanMack, for the enormous contribution to the game and to this set through his graphics. Thanks too, to our Chief Gremlin Hunter, Wal E. Web, for his endless testing, bug hunting and most importantly help to get this one finally done; as well as everybody else who contributed to v0.3 and, of course, v0.2.
We seem to have quite an audience today; let me ask you, “Are there any OpenTTD players present ?” ... I see, quite a number; unfortunately, I've got a bit of bad news for you lot ***. The Canadian Trains Set v0.3 is not supported in OpenTTD (any version). So. I may just like to ask you to pick up your meagre belongings and head for the exits. If you are new to Canada, then you may, on the way out, ask one of our door attendants for a copy of GRFCrawler. This excellent publication will give you directions to our previous, now fully outdated, version of CanSet v0.2, which still gives you a very good insight what this set is capable of.
[OpenTTD players seeing themselves out ...]
Now, “Are there any TTDPatch 2.5 beta series player among us ?”. ... Still a few. Well, you too won't be able to enjoy this marble of a trains set; the beta series is just not up to scratch for it. There is a solution though, you could be upgrading to TTDPatch 2.6 alpha series; if you'd rather not, then I must ask you to pick up your bags and leave. Again, if you are new to Canada, you may want to speak to one of our door attendants.
[TTDPatch 2.5 players are leaving ...]
What, just 6 of you left. I should have hired a kitchen cupboard for this presentation. Anyhow, I hope you are all TTDPatch 2.6 alpha players or are willing to upgrade to it; is that correct ?
... Fine, lets start with the presentation, shall we ...
If you are a keen player of CanSet v0.2; you probably want to know what is new in v0.3. Let me tell you a lot, for starters it has been re-written in full, it won't resemble much you already know. So using v0.3 with saved games, you may find it hard going. That is one reason why v0.3 has received a new GRFID. Now, it would take hours to go through all the details, but you may want to have a brief look at the posters on the wall, showing some aerial views of the just recently opened 'Rocky Mountain Rail Museum', by far the largest collection of Canadian Rail Equipment, from the past and present. It has been founded by Sir Wal. E. Web and is well worth a visit ... more about it later on ... Then we also have an aerial view of the just recently opened Jasper Engine Works R&D Centre, another one of Sir Web's creations. It gives you a sneak preview of some modern rolling stock, ready to be deployed around the country. By the way, we are writing the year 1974 at the moment, just in case you are not aware of that.
Time is money, so, I may just mention a few important enhancements and features compared to v0.2 :
New Liveries : there are many new vehicles and liveries included in v0.3, new engines, trains and wagons. In fact they have doubled in numbers.
Push-Pull Trains : this version sees the introduction of fully functional push-pull trains. We have 5 engines, GMD GP40TC, GP40-2W, F59PH, FP7 and the CNR X10a tank engine that are push-pull capable and together with the cab control cars, single and bi-level, as well as the ACPU/APU HEP unit allow you to construct many combinations of push-pull trains, in a multitude of liveries. Further, the Werkspoor RAm TEE, the ONR 'Northlander' TEE[b/] headed by a FP7 engine and the BBD MR-90 EMU-2 are also push-pull capable without requiring a cab control car. For more details see chapter 'Push-Pull Trains' in the User Guide.
'New' Cargo Support : that has been added, too. v0.3 has now the ability to transport almost all cargo types, from TTD 'original' default arctic and temperate cargo types, including tropical copper ore, to 3rd party Industry/Cargo sets, like ECS by George. Incidentally, all ECS cargo types are supported; i.e. all cargo types listed in wiki specifications as of January 11, 2008, except sub-tropical only ones, sulphur, copper and uranium variants. In all there are 40 cargo types supported directly via Cargo Labels, no Cargo Classes have been used, except passengers, mail, armoured and express. Cargo Classes cater for passengers, tourists, mail, luggage, valuables, gold, diamonds and goods. For more details see chapter ''New' Cargo Support' in the User Guide.
AI Support : For those of you, who enjoy a game with the AI; let me assure you, that the AI has our full support. Without the AI purchase support feature nothing would run in that department.
AutoUpgrade (aka AutoReplace) : this feature has been piggy-backed onto AI support and fully re-written, making full use of the AutoReplace vehicle selection feature of TTDPatch. It will take the hassle out of upgrading your trains to better models. For more details see chapter 'Automatic Vehicle Upgrade (AutoReplace)' in the User Guide.
Speed Limiter Facility [SLF] : most of you know when it comes to speed limiting trains, things aren't that rosy when livery overrides are involved. This problem has been solved with SLF. Further, it [sort of] forces players to use vans [cabeese] on freight trains. Basically, every train is speed limited to the slowest vehicle in a train. Some vehicle have no speed limits; they are : lightweight and bi-level passenger coaches, lightweight mail cars, the express car, as well as vans and the Steam Generator Unit (SGU). In this case trains travel at the maximum speed of the (lead) engine. For freight trains, speed limits are strictly enforced; i.e. they travel at the speed of the slowest vehicle in a train; this could be the engine or a wagon. Further, without a van in the train, freight trains are penalised with a 20% speed reduction (until 1985). So it really makes the van a very useful wagon, although it is not able to carry any cargo. After 1986 and beyond, the introduction of the End-Train-Device (ETD) makes vans obsolete and that speed penalty no longer applies. 1986 and beyond, freight trains will have an ETD fitted automatically to the last freight car, for your convenience.
Finally, the CNR X10a tank engine, a rather unique and extraordinary steam engine. It is push-pull capable, travels at a reduced speed of 20 mph (32 km/h) during shunting and whenever the cab control car is leading. Do not let this train travel cab control car leading on main lines. The X10a tank engine has been modified to allow operation in the most difficult of terrains and situations. Just recently a couple of them started service on the tourist railway to the top of Rocky Summit, which is a mirror image of the Mt Washington Cog Railway (175 miles south west of Montreal, in New Hampshire [USA]).
That brings this presentation to a conclusion. We thank you for your attendance and hope sincerely you will enjoy the Canadian Trains Set v0.3. We are looking forward to hearing from you about any experience you may have with this set, good, bad or indifferent.
Now, I'd like you to join me for refreshments, sorry downloads. We will be having these in another room, just 3 doors down the corridor on your right. ... But, before you leave, pick up our gift pack from our door attendants; it'll give you an excellent demonstration of the Canadian Trains Set v0.3. Courtesy of Wallyweb Productions Inc, it contains 2 interactive videos (aka save games), demonstrating our truly unique X10a Steam Special as well as all the other features of the Canadian Trains Set. Included, too, a couple of entry passes to the 'Rocky Mountain Rail Museum' and season tickets for the Rocky Summit Tourist Train. Detailed instructions on how to get there and watching of the videos are included (see next post) ... Enjoy !!
*** EDIT: Despite unpopular believes, this set is now OpenTTD compatible !!
Please, feel free to pick up a copy, courtesy of Wallyweb Productions ...
X10 Commuter Project
This save game demonstrates a unique steam train experience. A number of CNR X10a commuter services in push-pull mode have been implemented. Please note the steam engine will always lead the train while travelling from town to town; in order to do that, they need to shunt (pick up some water and coal too) before leaving a terminus station for their next destination. For safety reasons a speed limit of 20 mph (32 km/h) applies during shunting. For more information on this train and how they need to be purchased/constructed, see chapter 'CNR X10a Steam Special' in the User Guide.
CanSet Project 3a
This save game demonstrates the many facets of the Canadian Trains Set; it is a fully developed game with almost all of the Canadian engines and wagons in use. It started in 1920, and under the very experienced stewardship of Sir Wal E. Web, has now reached 1974.
It contains the worlds largest Railway Museum of Canadian Rolling Stock, it is located north of Edmonton, and can be reached by daily direct services from Lethbridge and Regina; just look for the CNR Tourist Specials 5869 and 5969. Edmonton, the closest city, is well served by regular passenger trains from all corners of the Rocky Mountain Region. We do have a direct courtesy street car service from the Edmonton Railway Station to the Museum. Please pay it a visit; entry is free for holders of a recent Canadian rail ticket. Many of the trains, engines and wagons, have been moved to the museum once they outlived their services on everyday commuter runs and as freight haulers.
Just north of the museum, there is Rocky Summit, where we have established a unique tourist attraction. Do take a ride on the Rocky Mountain Tourist Train 6075 or 6171.
Further, there is the Jasper Engine Works R&D Centre, where many of the modern rolling stock is on display, ready to be deployed around the country. It, too, is open to the public.
As for infrastructure, we have used the usual sets of NA City, NA Roads, Canadian Stations and Canadian Town Names. Then the game uses the set internal industry and cargo facility, featuring the extra cargo types of food, paper and copper ore. No other industry sets have been used, this is to keep the number of required sets to a minimum. However, we did include White Hand's Tourist Tower for the enjoyment of visitors to Rocky Summit and Museum. To service the many industries, we have been using the very latest in Sanchimaru's Industrial Stations Renewal Set v0.5. We also have included street car services in every town and city, as well as around the museum, featuring the just released NA Roads v0.8 street cars. Some of the street cars are also on display at the museum; just ask for the Tram Display.
We hope you will enjoy this new experience ... and thank you for your visit to the Rocky Mountain Region and the great plains of Canada.
A final word ... this game is live and does need attention from time to time; unfortunately the local staff are not (yet) very experienced and do cause occasional slip ups without supervision. Our Chief Manager, Sir Wal E. Web, cannot be everywhere, so if you see something that does not look right, causes concerns or otherwise requires attention, then please feel free to help the local station masters and traffic controllers by giving them a hand. You, as an experienced rail engineer yourself, should have little trouble to help out ...
I only had the time to get started with it, but this set is going to be a classic
Excellent Work!!! My time has been very limited to test, but I'm glad that others have been up to the task.
Thanks to everyone involved, especially OzTrans for bringint this to light. If not for him it would probably still be a collection of sprites on my computer. THanks to everyone for their enthusiasm as well.
New version being uploaded to the website as we speak.
The OpenTTD devs are well aware of what is missing; they have decided in their own wisdom not to do anything, after all the CanSet is not an important set.MJS wrote:What are the features blocking use of this set in OTTD? ...
For the rest of you, these are the items in question :
. vehicle property 25 (user defined bit mask)
. vehicle (train) variable 42 byte 3 (ORed vehicle property 25 of ALL vehicles in the train)
. vehicle variable FF bit 0 (train reversal indicator)
these have been reported in July 2007, yes July 2007; however, at that time, it was thought they were not implemented yet and I placed a feature request (#FS1043). Unknown to me at the time, in fact they were implemented, just not correctly and still are not. Now, because I didn't place a bug report instead of a feature request, they are not going to be fixed; although I was not informed for a long 8 months and only after I queried my feature request, that I should have lodged a bug report instead. A technicality, but just poor showing on their part, I would say. I should have studied law ...
Then there are other features [*], that are required or bugs to be fixed :
Callback 18 (AI purchase selection)
Callback 34 (AutoReplace vehicle selection)
Imbedded text strings (string code 81)
... there are more bugs, but we will get to them when the more important items are done.
[*] If they are implemented, then they don't work.
Bed is calling, but I must start a game of my own with this set ASAP. Very well done, all involved!
(I have some issues with the streetcar alignments, but that's a minor thing)
OzTransLtd wrote:they have decided in their own wisdom not to do anything, after all the CanSet is not an important set.
You make it sound like the devs are just idling around, doing nothing important, since the work needed for your particular set has been regarded as a lower priority than other things (like fixing newindustries, developing & debugging for the next major release - yes, OTTD actually does 0.x.0 releases, etc.). In that time there have also been quite a few dev changes within OTTD. It is a volunteer project - please remember that.July 2007, .. yes July 2007...
Its a common human effect that people who complain at other's lack of (voluntary) action, tend to find their requests head towards the bottom of the pile.
Reality is that CanSet is not a massively important set, and OTTD is still catching up with all the newgrf features. Only thing you can do is have patience, and ask nicely (via a bug report I'm afraid).
Actually, it is really quite important. The grf features that have been implemented are extraordinary. I am indeed honored to have been able to put this set through its paces and observed OzTransLtd's diligent work as he tweaked the code to make everything work in concert. I sincerely hope that the OTTD devs are able to get those "bugs" worked out as I think this set is a prime candidate for those larger maps and I'd really love to see the impressions put forth by those players that use those big maps.richk67 wrote:Reality is that CanSet is not a massively important set ...
but im pretty sure some one will fix the "bugs"
Few if any .grf sets are so mission critical to OTTD that if something is not working on them, then the OTTD devs drop everything to fix things to support them. In terms of priorities, fixing things for a (at the time) not yet released set, is a pretty low priority.wallyweb wrote:Actually, it is really quite important.richk67 wrote:Reality is that CanSet is not a massively important set ...
Of course, the *best* way to get the coding fixed to support a set is to *make sure* everything in the set works on OTTD, except the problem features - and then have them fail in such a way that the devs have to fix it to silence all the cries of "I tried the new super-duper CanSet, but XYZ didnt work. Why not? Please fix."
If a set is disabled in OTTD, and wont work at all, then there is no groundswell or impetus for the devs to fix what is needed.
So, in other words "Let OpenTTD make a hash of your careful work"? Is that what you're saying?richk67 wrote:If a set is disabled in OTTD, and wont work at all, then there is no groundswell or impetus for the devs to fix what is needed.
I'm glad AMD processors don't support the x86 instruction set in the same way that OpenTTD supports NFO.
No. Im saying that in a set of projects with an element of "he who shouts loudest (with most backers)" gets more attention, and perhaps a speedier fix. If the set isnt loadable, then there is no demand for a solution.DaleStan wrote:So, in other words "Let OpenTTD make a hash of your careful work"? Is that what you're saying?richk67 wrote:If a set is disabled in OTTD, and wont work at all, then there is no groundswell or impetus for the devs to fix what is needed.
D - you make it sound as though OTTD's only goal should be to support the latest NewGRF feature, and boo, shame, when it doesnt. Get real. Its still catching up on many features, and NFO suppliers throwing tantrums (ie. disabling the full set) when OTTD doesnt YET support their feature is childish. (BTW the most important word in there is YET, just to make it clear to those who love going off on tangents.)
How about "I can't try the new super-duper CanSet, because it doesn't work. Why not? Please fix."?richk67 wrote:...to silence all the cries of "I tried the new super-duper CanSet, but XYZ didnt work. Why not? Please fix."
OK ... here is a little impetus ... I would really like to try CanSet with larger maps. I think they are an excellent feature. How about fixing it so that the coder can enable OTTD and I can give them a go?If a set is disabled in OTTD, and wont work at all, then there is no groundswell or impetus for the devs to fix what is needed.
The bottom line is that without those features fixed in OTTD, CanSet would break seriously. It would be grossly unfair to the players to get their hopes up only to be dashed by a series of crashes. It would be very frustrating indeed. In this case, it would be better to have OTTD support turned off until this very sophisticated version of CanSet can function on it as best as possible.
Bottom line on getting things done - dialogue. Rants are not dialogue, and D's comments even less useful. I mean - what is he aiming at? Insulting OTTD into action?
Anyway, nothing further to add. So I'll bow out of this, rather have it degenerate.
Please do leave them there, ... I have complaint on behalf of OpenTTD players. I'm not playing OpenTTD games, so I don't really care, until PBS and Passenger Destinations have been implemented officially, that is.richk67 wrote:... Its a common human effect that people who complain at other's lack of (voluntary) action, tend to find their requests head towards the bottom of the pile. ...
I am very, very patient ... but if I lodge a feature request, that should have been a bug report; what's the crime ? What I'm disgruntled about, is the fact, that absolutely no-one has made any remarks, responded, made comments, changed the status of that report for more than 8 months. #FS905 and #FS1043 are still waiting for a comment at least.... Only thing you can do is have patience, and ask nicely (via a bug report I'm afraid).
A brief comment about my crime would have fixed a lot; now I don't really care any more. It's the OpenTTD players I feel sorry about, because they are the ones missing out, because of an oversight (technicality) of mine.
Now, everybody, please no slanging matches ... OpenTTD is aware of what needs doing ... and they will (hopefully) attend to matters in due course ... I shall fix the technicality issues as soon as practicable ...
EDIT : I do not release any work, that is known not to work in one way or another; if I did, then players will come to me when things go wrong. That is why the CanSet v0.3a has been disabled for OpenTTD and TTDPatch 2.5 beta series.
Then let me know when it works, and I'll remove the tantrum. Or tell me what I should be testing to determine whether it works, and I'll test that instead. In the meantime, anyone who has any business writing NFO support in OpenTTD knows how to make that test go away.richk67 wrote:and NFO suppliers throwing tantrums when OTTD doesnt YET support their feature is childish. (BTW the most important word in there is YET)