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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:52 am 
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Bilbo wrote:
[or perhaps trying to obey "physical law of conserving matter" - i.e. land that gets removed somewhere have to be readded elsewhere (minus some small buffer, so once thet buffer reach +100, you can only raise land, once -100, you can only lower the land). Or progressively raising cost of land removal - removing small bits would be cheap (ie. same cost as now), removing whole mountain at once would be very expensive. Basically, the more you remove in short time, the higher the price, and the price will decay back to original in time, so people who terraform a little will have ordinary prioces, people who terraform a lot will have quite high prices.

Now, that is an incredible good idea!
In fact, I like it so much I might start working on it!
Wouhou :D
Congrats :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:09 am 
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This would of course extremely frustrate the game spoilers, who would not be able to lower the map to sea level as easily. Cracking idea.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:53 am 
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richk67 wrote:
This would of course extremely frustrate the game spoilers, who would not be able to lower the map to sea level as easily. Cracking idea.


That may be one of the advantages. Also, the ideas may be combined in two ways - eithe you havelimited buffer AND lots of terrforming in small time will get more expensive, or cost of terraforming will be dependent of absolute value of the buffer - if the buffer is kept near zero, terraforming will be cheap. Once it start deviating from 0 (building high mointains or razing eveything to ground (or worse, to sea)) cost will start to rise.

Maybe to more discourage flattening to sea level, it could add more dirt in the buffer once flattened to sea value (sea have some depth (though not visible in the game), right?) - perhaps like 3 times the normal value.

Also, if implemented, some (at least approximative) indicator on the state of buffer may be necessary, so you'll know what you're up to.

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My patches: Extra large maps (1048576 high, 1048576 wide) (FS#1059), Vehicle + Town + Industry console commands (FS#1060), few minor patches (FS#2820, FS#1521, FS#2837, FS#2843), AI debugging facility

Other: Very large ships NewGRF, Bilbo's multiplayer patch pack v5 (for OpenTTD 0.7.3)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:25 am 
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I think that a ship (in TTD) should have a capacity about 10-20 train consists (a train + 9 wagons). Than it would be useful. That is especially important for goods and oil transportation

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:33 am 
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New ships is a great idea, but I agree with some of the other points mentioned here.

I created a scenario incorporating a large ocean between two land masses, intending to use ships to transport raw materials. But it proved unviable. The combination of low speed and low capacity means that shipping is just plain uneconomic on larger OpenTTD maps - it only works on small maps, as in the original TTD.

The solution of simply increasing ship capacity tends to unbalance the game in other areas. Would it be possible to increase the speed of ships as well ...? Maybe a combination of slightly increased capacity and slightly increased speeds would allow shipping to once again be a viable transportation option, without disturbing the game-balance in other areas.

Just a thought!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Is it possible to make Passenger boat have larger capacity too ?
and for cargo ships the possibility tu use new cargo (like the cargo used in ECS or Pikka's)

Thx


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:10 pm 
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The FISH set will most likely include (??) include some rather large ships... 20k units of cargo, or something, on the largest ones :)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:13 pm 
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DJ Nekkid wrote:
The FISH set will most likely include (??) include some rather large ships... 20k units of cargo, or something, on the largest ones :)

The largest FISH ship will carry 1080 tons of cargo.

@ Bilbo - (if around, I guess there'll be stunning silence if not) - I want to add a parameter to FISH for capacity, can you help?

cheers,

Andy

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:23 pm 
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andy: even i can help you with that :p

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:09 am 
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one billion daleks wrote:
New ships is a great idea, but I agree with some of the other points mentioned here.

I created a scenario incorporating a large ocean between two land masses, intending to use ships to transport raw materials. But it proved unviable. The combination of low speed and low capacity means that shipping is just plain uneconomic on larger OpenTTD maps - it only works on small maps, as in the original TTD.

The solution of simply increasing ship capacity tends to unbalance the game in other areas. Would it be possible to increase the speed of ships as well ...? Maybe a combination of slightly increased capacity and slightly increased speeds would allow shipping to once again be a viable transportation option, without disturbing the game-balance in other areas.

Just a thought!


Well, but you have to consider that "high-speed-ships" could be a bit weird. The best solution would in my opinion be to make the payment for some cargo less dependant on the travel time - No one cares how long a ship of coal has been travelling to reach that powerplant, the amount of money payed isn't really dependant on that, i think. However, that might be hard to change in the code, i don't know...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:59 am 
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Timitry wrote:
The best solution would in my opinion be to make the payment for some cargo less dependant on the travel time...However, that might be hard to change in the code, i don't know...

It's easy in newgrf. Also, FIRS will feature quite flat payment rates for bulk cargos.
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Cargos

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FIRS Industry Replacement Set (Released) | HEQS Heavy Equipment Set (trucks, industrial trams and more) (Finished)
Squid Ate FISH (ships) (Released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (Finished)
Iron Horse (trains, released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse, released) | Busy Bee (game script, released)

Road Hog (road vehicles, released)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:53 pm 
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The issue of economic balancing is, as you all know, an enormous one. Every change will have ramifications across the game, and of course the effects will vary depending on the nature of variables such as the map, newgrf's, difficulty settings etc.

I personally don't like the idea of small 'subjective' modifications to only particular areas of the game's economy as it would upset any future attempts at larger 'objective' balancing of all economic factors. This idea is obvious when playing with grf's from multiple authors with multiple goals in mind (I, for instance, and currently playing a game with eGRVTS, UKRS, av8 and original ships), some with the exclusive purpose of modifying economic variables.

I don't want to hijack the thread and start talking about my ideas for solving this, but I thought it needed pointing out. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Timitry wrote:
The best solution would in my opinion be to make the payment for some cargo less dependant on the travel time - No one cares how long a ship of coal has been travelling to reach that powerplant, the amount of money payed isn't really dependant on that, i think.


NEWGRF can modify the flatness of payment rates.

And while the coal won't decay en route, the coal mine company will still prefer to get payment for the delivered coal as soon as possible (or the power plant want to deliver the coal they've ordered as soon as possible), so there is always some incentive to deliver the goods as soon as possible, even though these are goods that can last probably several thousand years without decaying :)

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My patches: Extra large maps (1048576 high, 1048576 wide) (FS#1059), Vehicle + Town + Industry console commands (FS#1060), few minor patches (FS#2820, FS#1521, FS#2837, FS#2843), AI debugging facility

Other: Very large ships NewGRF, Bilbo's multiplayer patch pack v5 (for OpenTTD 0.7.3)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:25 pm 
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andythenorth wrote:
DJ Nekkid wrote:
The FISH set will most likely include (??) include some rather large ships... 20k units of cargo, or something, on the largest ones :)

The largest FISH ship will carry 1080 tons of cargo.

@ Bilbo - (if around, I guess there'll be stunning silence if not) - I want to add a parameter to FISH for capacity, can you help?

cheers,

Andy


Perhaps I can. Conditional actions in GRF allow that (technically the language is turing complete, though there are some limits in addressing and alike), though it may be a bit tricky to do it more effective than using Action 7 or Action 9 to skip sprites and have it something like
Code:
if (parameter == 0) {
 definition of all ships
} else if (parameter == 1) {
 definition of all ships with double the load
} else if (parameter == 2) {
 definition of all ships with triple the load
} else ....


Action 6 allows overriding bytes in next sprites, however you have to calculate byte offsets, Action D allows doing calculations.

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If you need something, do it yourself or it will be never done.

My patches: Extra large maps (1048576 high, 1048576 wide) (FS#1059), Vehicle + Town + Industry console commands (FS#1060), few minor patches (FS#2820, FS#1521, FS#2837, FS#2843), AI debugging facility

Other: Very large ships NewGRF, Bilbo's multiplayer patch pack v5 (for OpenTTD 0.7.3)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Hi :)

I very much like the idea of these kind of ships.

However, in a fairly new game I bought a "small" oil tanker (10m liters). It kept loading for a couple of years, and it cost about 200k a year to run.
But when it finally unloaded, it only gave 58k, so that was kind of a bit loss. I can make up for this to a certain extent by making sure that the goods (over 6k crates) are being delivered, but still I think it's kind of a big loss.

I bought the ship around 1935 and it unloaded in 1942. Of course in the future such ships will make a bit more profit, but the running costs will also increase (inflation is on). So I'm wondering: how will I ever be able to make a profit out of this kind of ship?

Any tips are very welcome. Thanks!! :)

David


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:52 pm 
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you generally don't want anything to load for more than like a month, as cargo loses value very quickly once it is loaded into the vehicle. so only use this kind of ship when you have an extremely high-producing industry (cluster).

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Thanks for your reply Eddi.

Perhaps it would be an idea to have oil transferred from other oil rigs to the one I'm using the large tanker at?

That might be an idea, but still, I only have the large ships now, so I don't have a way of transporting oil for that purpose with normal sized ships...

Is it possible to add vehicles to a game that already exists, or can that only be done when starting a new game?
And if so, does anyone know how I can do that? Because right now I only have those large ships and no normal ones... :S

Thanks for any advice.

David


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:58 pm 
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adding vehicles afterwards is not supported.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:34 pm 
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Thanks for the info Eddi.

Too bad, because I didn't really want to start a new game. Oh well, I will figure something out :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:33 am 
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(well i didn't say it's not possible :p)

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