ECS vectors v1.1.2 (by George) 19/06/2011

[michael blunck]

Which means that not all production is passed to the station? And this depends upon the station's rating? Can this rating be arbitrarily controlled?

Well, if there´s only one station in the industry´s catchment area, the distributed amount is directly connected to the ratings. I.e., if the rating on the station is 30%, then 30% of the produced cargo is deposited there.

Now, if there are two stations, all of the production is distributed
between them based on the relative ratings. E.g., if station A has a 40% rating and station B has 80%, then 1/3 of the cargo will go to station A and 2/3 of the cargo goes to station B.

If there are more than two stations, cargo is distributed between the two best-serviced stations, i.e. the ones with the biggest ratings, while any other stations get nothing.

TTDPatch´s "new cargo distribution" switch changes this behavior insofar that all cargo will be distributed (in the old scheme, a fraction of cargo would be lost), and that similar station ratings will result into a similar amount of cargo being distributed to those stations, i.e., "a rating twice as high will receive twice as much". (?)

[Thanks to Csaba for pointing out the intricacies of cargo distribution in some of our recent discussions.]

regards
Michael

[George]

hi george seems to be a bug in your set every time i click on a station where holzprodukte (german term) are ready to load the game crashes to desktop

Could you post a save?

here it isit is the same with fish

I do not have most of the grfs from your newgrf.cfg, but I have no crash if I load you game on both my and your ttdpatch.cfg.

[George]

First, a little help with your English. This is not a criticism ... it is coaching. In English "fabric" is cloth or textile. Yes, one can say furniture is "fabricated" but the better term is "manufactured". An industry that manufactures something is a "manufacturer" and is located in a building called a "factory" or a "plant" or a "works" or a "facility". So you might want use the term "Furniture factory".

Could you point, that cell in the excel file should be changed and what should they have?

This is very difficult to answer.

That is why I moved it to the open discussion

If you have one of each industry then the chain is complete. But production would be very low. So to increase production you need more wood which means you need more forests. With enough forests, one sawmill would be able to meet the demands of any number of paper mills and furniture factories. If you put a limit on the productivity of a sawmill then it is conceivable that you would need more sawmills. If you have many paper mills and furniture factories, then it is conceivable that you would need more sawmills. I think the question should not be how many resource industries. Let the game decide that randomly. Also let the game decide the productivity of each forest.

My question was how many industries should it be in the full chain. Like 10 forests, 2 sawmills, 1 paper mill, 1 paper works, 1 furniture factory.

Now the question becomes how to determine the efficiency of a sawmill. How much wood can it process into wood products over a period of time? How many tons of wood do you need to make one ton of product? How many game tics to produce one ton of product (or how many tons of product are produced in each game tic)? What is the maximum inventory of wood that a sawmill can hold? If the inventory is full, then perhaps the sawmill could produce product at 100% and if the inventory is less than half full then produce at 75 or 50% and if the inventory is almost empty then produce at 10%. I can't give a precise answer as to which level is best.
You also have to consider product waiting to be picked up. Does the sawmill have a maximum for inventory of product waiting to be picked up? This should affect productivity too. If the inventory is at 100% then production should stop. Production should be reduced as the product inventory approaches 100%.
I can't propose an ideal number of each industry to have. I feel this should be random so as to cause the player to make decisions. Definitely there should a minimum of one of each resource with the player having the option to prospect for more. If the game makes too many resources, the player can decide which ones to support. As for the other industries, if the player has enough money he can always build some if the game forgot to build them.

that means we only need to decide, how much forests should 1 sawmill service on the highest production level.

[wallyweb]

First, a little help with your English. This is not a criticism ... it is coaching. In English "fabric" is cloth or textile. Yes, one can say furniture is "fabricated" but the better term is "manufactured". An industry that manufactures something is a "manufacturer" and is located in a building called a "factory" or a "plant" or a "works" or a "facility". So you might want use the term "Furniture factory".

Could you point, that cell in the excel file should be changed and what should they have?

"Furniture factory".

that means we only need to decide, how much forests should 1 sawmill service on the highest production level.

89.
1 sawmill should be able to serve any number of forests that the game builds.
I may be wrong but I think you are looking for how much inventory in tons of wood should the sawmill be able to hold.
If this amount is too large then the game becomes too easy and if it is too small then the game becomes too difficult,
What is the productivity range of one forest?
How far is that forest from the sawmill?
How fast is the train that carries that wood to the sawmill?
How much wood can that train carry?
Are all the sawmills the same size and have the same inventory capacity?
Or can the sawmills vary in size and maximum capacity?
I will make a guess ... maximum inventory = 1000 tons.

[goalie]

Could you post a save?

here it isit is the same with fish

I do not have most of the grfs from your newgrf.cfg, but I have no crash if I load you game on both my and your ttdpatch.cfg.

ok
i will try to deactivate the grf files file by file

edit: it also happens if only your grf files are activated
i use the latest nightly

[Raichase]

i use the latest nightly

Which version would that be then?

[George]

here it isit is the same with fish

I do not have most of the grfs from your newgrf.cfg, but I have no crash if I load you game on both my and your ttdpatch.cfg.

i will try to deactivate the grf files file by file
edit: it also happens if only your grf files are activated
i use the latest nightly

Sorry, it happens here too, I just tested the wrong station.
Csaboka, could you have a look?

[George]

"Furniture factory".

As far as I remember, I replaced it long ago. Where did I forgot to do it?

that means we only need to decide, how much forests should 1 sawmill service on the highest production level.

89.
1 sawmill should be able to serve any number of forests that the game builds.

Now it can process wood from 8 forests max. The storage is limited to 32K tons of wood max

I may be wrong but I think you are looking for how much inventory in tons of wood should the sawmill be able to hold.
If this amount is too large then the game becomes too easy and if it is too small then the game becomes too difficult,
What is the productivity range of one forest?

2048 max

How far is that forest from the sawmill?

at least 16 tiles away

How fast is the train that carries that wood to the sawmill? How much wood can that train carry? Are all the sawmills the same size and have the same inventory capacity?

Yes

Or can the sawmills vary in size and maximum capacity?

It is possible to do it, but what for?

I will make a guess ... maximum inventory = 1000 tons.

While the industry processes 16K tons of wood? That means 64 trains should come with fixed interval of 0.5 days? I used the 32K inventory and supposed only to halve it

[wallyweb]

"Furniture factory".

As far as I remember, I replaced it long ago. Where did I forgot to do it?

AHA! You did fix it. This is what confused me.

Use the wood vector as an example:

Good idea to make the example. How many industries of each type should it be in optimal chain? I mean forests, sawmills, paper mills, printing works and furniture fabrics.

that means we only need to decide, how much forests should 1 sawmill service on the highest production level.

89.
1 sawmill should be able to serve any number of forests that the game builds.

Now it can process wood from 8 forests max. The storage is limited to 32K tons of wood max

I may be wrong but I think you are looking for how much inventory in tons of wood should the sawmill be able to hold.
If this amount is too large then the game becomes too easy and if it is too small then the game becomes too difficult,
What is the productivity range of one forest?

2048 max

How far is that forest from the sawmill?

at least 16 tiles away

How fast is the train that carries that wood to the sawmill? How much wood can that train carry? Are all the sawmills the same size and have the same inventory capacity?

Yes

Or can the sawmills vary in size and maximum capacity?

It is possible to do it, but what for?

I will make a guess ... maximum inventory = 1000 tons.

While the industry processes 16K tons of wood? That means 64 trains should come with fixed interval of 0.5 days? I used the 32K inventory and supposed only to halve it

Wow! That is a lot of trains for just one industry. It would take an entire game just to build them.
The 32K value sounds good. Definitely much better than 1K .

[George]

"Furniture factory".

As far as I remember, I replaced it long ago. Where did I forgot to do it?

AHA! You did fix it. This is what confused me.

Use the wood vector as an example:

Good idea to make the example. How many industries of each type should it be in optimal chain? I mean forests, sawmills, paper mills, printing works and furniture fabrics.

It is not the translation file

[goalie]

here it isit is the same with fish

I do not have most of the grfs from your newgrf.cfg, but I have no crash if I load you game on both my and your ttdpatch.cfg.

ok
i will try to deactivate the grf files file by file

edit: it also happens if only your grf files are activated
i use the latest nightly

with the todays nightly it works again
thank you

[George]

Because there are no suggestions about capacities of processing industries, I've decided to divide all the values by four myself.

[wallyweb]

Because there are no suggestions about capacities of processing industries, I've decided to divide all the values by four myself.

Good idea. After you have them coded I can try them in a scenario I have made. It will give them a good work out and show up any problems. Be sure to let us know when you have the grf's available for us.

[George]

I've tried to draw this castle

I can't say I was successful, but at least I have the versions to improve. Have a look and say, which version looks better. Sort one or long one? And what parts should be improved?

[wallyweb]

I've tried to draw this castle
I can't say I was successful, but at least I have the versions to improve. Have a look and say, which version looks better. Sort one or long one? And what parts should be improved?

The short one seems to have better definition and it is better suited to the ttdx style.

[Prebral]

Good work, but this frontal view reminds me somehow of old Japanese videogames like Zelda. The shorter one looks better, but it still needs some visual depth.

[Sonicelo]

Maybe it would be better to be drawn from standart corner perspective? I mean the way normaly buildings are being drawn for TT...

[George]

Maybe it would be better to be drawn from standart corner perspective? I mean the way normaly buildings are being drawn for TT...

It was experiment. And I'd like to finish it this way first.

[AndersI]

IMO it should be somewere in between, but closer to the short one.

[Railwaymodeler]

I like the short version, it fits TTD a bit more. Having never seena castle in person though, I can't really say how much bigger they would be than a standard factory like the one TTD uses.

Looks very good though. Will this be used with the tourist cargo?