North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

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andythenorth
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by andythenorth »

Emperor Jake wrote:Is this still on or has it been abandoned? I hope not ;(
Far as I know it's abandoned, or perhaps you might think of it as...turned into other things.

If I remember correctly, Dan and Wally were looking after the tracking table, Dan and Lifeblood were drawing, and Pikka was planning to code. (Sorry if I missed anyone out).

Dan is busy with other things and Lifeblood has disappeared (shame!). Wally is still around and may have some ideas for resurrecting this set using FIRS as a base. Pikka has plenty to do including a new town and industry set (TAI).

Meanwhile, thanks to a (rather expensive!) mobile phone download of the NAIS tracking table when I was in Bombay a year ago, FIRS incorporates most of the ideas for NAIS, except for all the things that are completely different :D

cheers,

Andy
Last edited by andythenorth on 31 Oct 2009 11:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by cmoiromain »

andythenorth wrote:chees,

Andy
Did you mean cheese? :lol:
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wallyweb
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by wallyweb »

DanMack is the one who started this. Check the first post. As far as I know this project is merely sleeping while DanMack had to work on some other projects and look after some personal stuff. Agreed FIRS should pretty much cover Canadian and North American industries, but unfortunately it is geared to OTTD only and not TTPatch.
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by planetmaker »

wallyweb wrote:FIRS (...) unfortunately (...) is geared to OTTD only and not TTPatch.
I don't find the reference anymore, but that might probably be helped, though input is asked for: If it doesn't run out of IDs for both industries, sprites and cargos, it will work. If there should be defined more, it is not too much work to actually make a TTDP version. Everything (IDs,...) is defined in some header files which can be easily adjusted and the whole thing re-compiled. Did anyone actually try whether it works in TTDP?

The source of FIRS is freely available and modifications / diffs which ensure TTDP compatiblity surely are welcome. We might then build two versions of this set.
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andythenorth
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by andythenorth »

planetmaker wrote:Did anyone actually try whether it works in TTDP
I haven't/can't/won't (I could probably run TTDPatch on a Mac, but it's a hassle).

Wally - we talked about FIRS for TTDPatch vaguely before. DaleStan has indicated that 32 cargos is not a problem. Planetmaker and co. have done the work with header files to make multiple versions a possibility. TTDPatch wiki indicates 37 industries are possible. The only remaining problem *should* be if FIRS uses a scheme for Industry Tiles that is incompatible for TTDPatch (which I don't know about)

How might a TTDPatch version work? Well FIRS currently has 57 industries planned per climate, which are not the same in every climate (of these, 38 are coded...we're working on the rest...).

Cargos are not a problem, but industries are. I would start by cutting the chain for Survey Supplies completely, freeing a cargo slot and eliminating two industries (Survey Camp and Survey Depot).

I would immediately also cut:
- Resort Hotel
- Windfarm
- Animal Feed Plant
- Windmill
- Dredging Site
- Vehicle Plant
- Blacksmith
- Glass Works
That gets the total down to 47, and no chains will break. Depending on whether we want Tropic towns to grow, the Water Plant and Water Tower could be cut. But lets assume not, so we're still at 47.

The following will be / could be implemented as houses:
- Retail Market
- Gas Station
- Supermarket
- Incinerator
- Waste Collection Point
- Incinerator
- General Store
That gets the total down to 40. There are rather a lot of farm / agriculture industries, so we could probably get to 38 by cutting:
- Greenhouse
- Fruit Plantation
Finally Landfill is intended to be a complicated implementation based on quarries turning into Landfills. Not sure that's actually going to happen, but that would save another ID, or we could lose something like Guano Mine, or Fish Farm.

I haven't checked that gets us to 37 for *each* climate, but it's about right, doesn't break any chains, and leaves all the major industries in place. I know it's not NAIS, but if you want FIRS for TTDPatch, that's how it might be done.

That's about as far as I'm going to think about it for now. I'm can help with this, but I won't code something I can't test, and I won't support the grf either, so it would need someone to look after it :)

cheers,

Andy
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by planetmaker »

All these cuts actually could be implemented via a simple define:
#ifndef TTDP
#include "also-this-industry"
#endif

#ifdef TTDP
#define ID_BLAH 1
#else
#define ID_BLAH 3
#endif

But as andy pointed out, it's difficult for him to test it and the same goes for me. But I think it's quite feasable to go for something like outlined above - if a person willing to do the TTDP part is found. We would accept patches in that direction and we could then also talk about write access to the repo for this purpose.
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by Gremnon »

Andy, if you need someone to test it on TTDP, I'm willing - I run it via Wine on linux, but I've yet to have any issue with it, so I'll test it for you if it ever happens.
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by lifeblood »

andythenorth wrote: [...]
Lifeblood has disappeared
[...]
No, just faded out for a while. The problem is that I hit my mid-twenties - graduated, got engaged, moved out, got a real job, got married, trying to build a career etc. The good news is that I will be a grad-student again in January.

I still have sprites for the three industies I have completed - auto-parts plant, auto assembly plant, and cannery. If there is a willing coder, I'd be happy to submit them.
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by kamnet »

Grave-digging here, but I just wanted to comment on what a nifty idea this was, and hopefully maybe somebody will get it going again.
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andythenorth
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by andythenorth »

kamnet wrote:Grave-digging here, but I just wanted to comment on what a nifty idea this was, and hopefully maybe somebody will get it going again.
What would be gained compared to the other (also unfinished) industry sets? :)
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by wallyweb »

andythenorth wrote:
kamnet wrote:Grave-digging here, but I just wanted to comment on what a nifty idea this was, and hopefully maybe somebody will get it going again.
What would be gained compared to the other (also unfinished) industry sets? :)
Blatant nationalism. 8)
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by supermop »

So long as its North American, wouldn't that make it regionalism, or continentalism?

To be serious, regional sets would make more sense - the agricultural, mineral and manufacturing landscape varies so much even within the US or Canada (or Mexico etc) that one set for the continent would not be able to go into enough detail to differentiate it from any other industry set.
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Re: North American Industry Set - Updated Tracking Table

Post by wallyweb »

supermop wrote:So long as its North American, wouldn't that make it regionalism, or continentalism?
:D
... that one set for the continent would not be able to go into enough detail to differentiate it from any other industry set.
Canada's industry is largely based on a few natural resources so it would be simpler to implement than a continental set... so your thoughts make perfectly good sense.
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