new lighting for buildings

Ben_Robbins_ · Post by **Ben_Robbins_** » 01 May 2006 17:45

The roof is a lot better, but the sides now look bland and have lost contrast

Ichi · Post by **Ichi** » 01 May 2006 17:46

Ben_Robbins_ wrote:The roof is a lot better, but the sides now look bland and have lost contrast

That's true, but I don't think we can have it both. But I'm not a lighting expert, far from it lol

lowman · Post by **lowman** » 02 May 2006 00:54

Ben_Robbins_ wrote:The roof is a lot better, but the sides now look bland and have lost contrast

Isn't that more to do the fact that its currently untextured (i.e. all one texture)? I think the new lighting setup accurately reflects that. I mean a structure that consists entirely of one material under a realistic light setup is going to lack contrast.

I think the light setup is better evaluated on textured objects.

Ben_Robbins_ · Post by **Ben_Robbins_** » 02 May 2006 01:29

I was talking about tonal variation as aposed to Textured or Colour Variation...

lowman · Post by **lowman** » 02 May 2006 05:01

Ben_Robbins_ wrote:I was talking about tonal variation as aposed to Textured or Colour Variation...

Agreed, I think it gives a more realistic result though.

Does it actually makes sense to have the light source oriented that way, given that it puts the least lighted aspect of the object facing the camera/user? Would it be more productive to have the light source within a +/- 90 degree range from the camera (as measured from a top-down view)? I'm thinking that all these great models people are doing would be better presented that way?

I understand that the current light setup was chosen to mimic the current one, but should we use the opportunity to come up with a more effective setup?

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 02 May 2006 09:18

Well the light setup is made to look similar to the light in the original ttd graphics.
As for there not being much contrast on the shaded side of the building, thats how it is in real life.

Ben_Robbins_ · Post by **Ben_Robbins_** » 02 May 2006 09:27

For the 4 rotations of any building, Is the lighting set up to remain fixed to the camara or the objects?...

If fixed to the camara then the graphic has a lot more usage, but you would always be looking at the side in the shaddow

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 02 May 2006 09:40

I believe right now we have settled on fixed lighting so we can use all 4 angles of a building in the same view, giving more variation.

When we get more insight into memory useage e.a. we can decide whether it is feasable to have 4x4 sprites per building.

lowman · Post by **lowman** » 03 May 2006 06:43

dmh_mac wrote:I believe right now we have settled on fixed lighting so we can use all 4 angles of a building in the same view, giving more variation.

When we get more insight into memory useage e.a. we can decide whether it is feasable to have 4x4 sprites per building.

Fixed lighting makes sense, but why from 135degrees (approx) from the user's viewpoint? In photography I was alway taught that having light coming from behind the camera is the best setup (generally).

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 03 May 2006 10:18

I don't know much about photography but I wouldn't think that frontlight is the best for every situation, allthough I do realize in most cases you would want the sun in your back instead of in your view.

If we were to use frontlight we would lose a lot of contrast on the overal picture. I think it would look very plain and boring and would take away a lot of the 3d-ness.

Ben_Robbins_ · Post by **Ben_Robbins_** » 03 May 2006 11:49

I made a avi to compair...

<Edit> From that i drew up where i think the strongest points for the light to come from are. Red is Lame, White is Good. The Arrow is where the current light comes from. (Based on Contrast, Alignment of shaddows and Lighting)

Some people just have way too much time on their hands

Aracirion · Post by **Aracirion** » 03 May 2006 23:56

I'd like to propose a different apprach: remove all light but the sun & ambient occlusion. This is how things should be in the real world, I figured. Then I made an object of pure white (colour, plus ref=1). The renders below are varied in ambient occlusion strength; I think we should now decide how bright pure white should be. I'd take something in between 1 and 1,5. What do you think of this appraoch in general? (we could still try varying the angle of the sun...)

Costas · Post by **Costas** » 04 May 2006 00:00

is the light going to be fixed from one side regardless how u turn the map? ie is it going to be coming from the right of the screen? or by rotating the map so do the shadows?

Aracirion · Post by **Aracirion** » 04 May 2006 00:14

Costas: as far as I understood, for now the light is always coming from the same side, the advantage being that you can use all 4 perspectives of the building on the same screen.

concerning my new setup: The reason for reducing light sources is simplicity: by varying the Sun/Ambient Occlusion ratio we should be able to vary the amount of light that faces that lie in the shadow get. Furthermore, once we have decided how pure white should look we can go on with the textures and still change the details of the lighting later. I also included a render of my office with the new setup (Amb. Occ. = 1)

Ben_Robbins_ · Post by **Ben_Robbins_** » 04 May 2006 00:44

Have you changed some textures, Cause in Comparing it, it appears a lot more blue on the sides now.

The top looks a lot better, but the sides are now very dark. I think 1.5 is the lowest your should go. In the real world light bounces enough so that everywhere gets some light. The higher contrast makes the edges unrealistically sharp i think as well. The edges in 'new 1,5.png' are a lot better i think.

Ichi · Post by **Ichi** » 04 May 2006 00:47

Aracirion wrote:Costas: as far as I understood, for now the light is always coming from the same side, the advantage being that you can use all 4 perspectives of the building on the same screen.

concerning my new setup: The reason for reducing light sources is simplicity: by varying the Sun/Ambient Occlusion ratio we should be able to vary the amount of light that faces that lie in the shadow get. Furthermore, once we have decided how pure white should look we can go on with the textures and still change the details of the lighting later. I also included a render of my office with the new setup (Amb. Occ. = 1)

Could you render it so the light shines on the front of the building by rotating the building 90 degrees to the right. I think that'll make your building look way prettier.

I think 1 is the best value, it has the best contrast and isn't too bright.

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 04 May 2006 11:14

I too initialy went for a minimalistic light setup, however we have to consider we are not trying to simulate real life.
In real life (on a clear and sunny day) it'd be hard to photograph a building without losing contrast on either the shadow side (details falling into the darkness) or the sunny side (details getting saturated out).

We want neither to happen so we have to put in extra ambient light making it more like a light clouded or hazey day.
This causes the roof areas to be overly bright, so our alternative is to put in a hemi light shining from the oposite direction of the sun.

Which is basicly how it is currently, but now you know why

Ichi · Post by **Ichi** » 04 May 2006 12:22

I understand, but the new lighting method from Aracirion looks pretty good and makes sure the roofs aren't overly bright and keeps some nice contrast.

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 04 May 2006 14:16

Aracirion,

Could you perhaps post a render of the blocks scene with the lighting we use now?

Aracirion · Post by **Aracirion** » 04 May 2006 19:45

there you go.

Transport Tycoon Forums

new lighting for buildings

new approach

Who is online