German Tram Set

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 03 Jun 2005 21:38

Indeed. It's very realistic for North America. The Niagara region used to have a tram system that also transported goods between industries on the same lines. And much remains of that network, and its still used (I almost hit a train on the way home from work once). I'm with Dan on this one. Also, if an industry ends up being in the middle of a town, this would be the easiest way to access it.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 03 Jun 2005 21:41

Of course you can disallow it, on a per-loco basis.

Now: Diesel locos can go on normal tracks, or electrified tracks. Electric locos can only go on electrified tracks.

If it's possible to integrate the third rail into the system, you'd bit-switch each loco to indicate where it's allowed to go. Assume that tram-tracks always have overhead caternary.

So, an actual tram vehicle would be allowed to go on tram-tracks, and also on electrified lines, but not normal track because there's no caternary for it.

A light diesel or steam locomotive can go anywhere, including tram tracks.

A heavy diesel or steam locomotive can go on electrified and non-electrified tracks, but NOT on tram-tracks because it would crush them. There's a reason it's called LIGHT rail nowadays.

A light electric loco could go on electrified, or tram tracks. Basically that would be the interurbans and steeplecabs, which you could categorize as trams.

A heavy electric loco, or inflexible one (GG1 and Acela) can't go on the tram tracks because they'd crush them or not make the corners. (Yes, I know corners aren't a problem in TTD)

So, to do this, all you need is a flag for non-electric locos, indicating whether they're permitted on tram-tracks or not. An electric loco that can work on tram tracks is a tram, so code it accordingly. And all trams are able to work on normal electrified line - yes, I know there are voltage differences, but in TTD we already decided long ago to ignore that.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 03 Jun 2005 21:43

[trains on city streets]

That´s nothing special. In Switzerland, the RhB e.g. on the Chur-Arosa line or on the Berninabahn is running their trains this way.

O/c that´s narrow-gauge ...

http://hampage.hu/kozlekedes/TdT2/03310019.JPG

regards
Michael

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 03 Jun 2005 21:47

Yes, the Swiss do that with narrow gauge. I don't think even they do it with normal heavy-rail equipment.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 03 Jun 2005 21:54

Well, a (narrow-gauge) Ge 4/4 III weighs 62 tons, and a (normal-gauge) Re 4/4 I weighs 57 tons ...

regards
Michael

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 03 Jun 2005 21:59

So maybe the Swiss are more flexible that way.

calciumcowpat · Post by **calciumcowpat** » 03 Jun 2005 22:02

i think that t depends on which country your are trying to emulate in the set as to how you allow/disallow certan trains to use the tracks

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 03 Jun 2005 22:06

Well, I say allow all diesels (Except maybe a Centennial) on street trackage, esp. 6 axle units - lighter axle loading.

Oz · Post by Oz » 03 Jun 2005 22:11

Dan, that is the coolest picture I have seen in a loooooong time. I now have visions of a freight diesel chugging down the B line tracks along Commonwealth Ave. here in Boston. The kids at Boston University would shizznit themselves!

The picture's also a good example for TT graphics scale.

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 04 Jun 2005 02:10

Ahh. Thanks DanMacK for coming and backing me up with some factual information. I knew that tram tracks were used thusly in some parts of the world, I just didnt have the information.

Now Im really motivated to get this working.

/me goes back to teh ASM to poke around

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 04 Jun 2005 02:33

Aegir wrote:I knew that tram tracks were used thusly in some parts of the world.

But they aren't, except with narrow gauge as MB pointed out. Certainly I don't think most normal trains should be allowed on tram tracks, otherwise, what's the point?

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 04 Jun 2005 03:16

krtaylor wrote:
Aegir wrote:I knew that tram tracks were used thusly in some parts of the world.
But they aren't, except with narrow gauge as MB pointed out. Certainly I don't think most normal trains should be allowed on tram tracks, otherwise, what's the point?

In that case *dont* run your trains on the tram tracks. And also dont use the feature at all. No-one is forcing you. This feature is made to emulate certain things that I *have* seen in real life.

Anyways, I feel like Im talking past people and not to them. Heres a screenie:

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 04 Jun 2005 04:08

I want to see the feature, I just want to use it differently.

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 04 Jun 2005 07:59

Light rail shares heavy rail all the time, most light rail in the UK are ran on heavy lines that used to take goods to the industries in the centre of towns

http://www.railwayage.com/dec99/intransit.html

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 04 Jun 2005 08:06

American Inter-urbans spring to mind with that patch, i would certainly use the feature Aegir is developing as it is.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 04 Jun 2005 09:02

Well, considering the direction this discussion has taken, all we need would be a graphical variation for normal train tracks in city centers - we don´t need to use up one complete track system for this (still w/o catenary).

regards
Michael

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 04 Jun 2005 09:09

That could bring problems with normal train stations built near city centers..

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 04 Jun 2005 09:25

michael blunck wrote:Well, considering the direction this discussion has taken, all we need would be a graphical variation for normal train tracks in city centers - we don´t need to use up one complete track system for this (still w/o catenary).

regards
Michael

Thats what I have suggested to Patchman. My idea was that rails build normally, you still have normal, electrified and monorail/maglev. But when you build a track over a road, it deletes the road, and places a track down normally, however, they draw as tram tracks instead of normal rails. This could be extended so that only rails built in the city center get the sidewalks, and ones built furthur out do not. Aswell, this might work well for tropical and arctic/alpine.

This theoreticly could allow catenery wires on tram tracks aswell.

However Patchman said that this would be impossible without a newtrack feature, as their would be no way to keep account of wether the track was built on a road or not, or what type either.

Considering high-speed rails, abandoned rails decaying over time, and pottentially buffers, would require a newtrack feature.

I think we should start bugging Patchman for newtracks.

So here goes:

Patchman, code newtracks!

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 04 Jun 2005 09:28

Also, shouldn't it be mentioned the town should be able to expand near the city track, or the use of this feature would kind of limit town growth.

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 04 Jun 2005 09:30

Akalamanaia wrote:American Inter-urbans spring to mind with that patch, i would certainly use the feature Aegir is developing as it is.

In that case eat up:
I dont actually hate you Akalamanaia, you just annoy the crap out of me on IRC.

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