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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:12 am 
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Been asked if I could mention about the:

Vera Deacon Regional History Fund.

Gionni who gave me permission to use old photographs for my projects sent me this email.

Quote:
Hi Garry,

No worries.

If you can, give the Vera Deacon Regional History Fund a plug to your audience.

Vera is a Stockton pensioner who has been donating to us since 2001 to help archive and digitise historic photographs and documents relating to Newcastle and the Hunter Region etc.

She, and her fellow donors, have been able to provide paid employment to our volunteers, who come in every day to digitise material that goes up online to the wider community through the Uni, in high resolution, and for free!

So we want to encourage people to support it. If you can spread the word, we’d really appreciate it.

https://uoncc.wordpress.com/vera-deacon-fund/

Regards, and best wishes,

Gionni


Without the help of these old photos many of the projects I about to do would never get done.

Thanks fellas

Cheers

Garry

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Oh my! these all look so great! That sydney terminal reminds me of Liege's train station here in belgium, also one of the first time I ever see shadows with buildings, thats a thing? Eitherway, keep up the good work, cant wait to see more :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Nondidjos wrote:
Oh my! these all look so great!


Thanks pal, hehe they not suppose to be shadows under the Coal Loader but spilt coal.

But I over did it so changed them a bit.

This is where I up to with the Coal Loader so far.
Attachment:
Coal Loader.png
Coal Loader.png [ 9.92 KiB | Viewed 322 times ]


Be a few days now before can do any more.

Compare it with photo previous page/

Cheers

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:09 am 
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This is very close to how the Killingworth Coal Loader will look when it is completed.

Based on Photos I have access to in 1903 to 1910.
Attachment:
Killingworth Coal Loader.png
Killingworth Coal Loader.png [ 20.2 KiB | Viewed 232 times ]


The far building is from the FIRS 1.4.3 Industry Set .. I hope to include this so blend in with the Coal Mines that come with Firs and my own Industry set.

The 1st 4 sections to left where the railway lines go act as platforms. The first one is the arrival road for empties .. they proceed out the back to storage sidings where they wait till one of the other 3 roads become available for loading.

If you look at photo on previous page you will see coal wagons .. some loading with big pieces of coal and the wagons that have access to the far line have crash or screen coal.

The rest will be the station or non-track tiles.

Could be Friday before I will have chance to finish it.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:54 am 
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What you have there (see photo) is a "mine shaft tower", not a "coal loader". And it would be part of a mine, not of a station. Just my 2cc.

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:19 am 
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michael blunck wrote:
What you have there (see photo) is a "mine shaft tower", not a "coal loader


I don't mind people pointing things out as often get some good ideas from them. 2cc's are welcome.

I put the mine shaft tower in the non-track tiles so it joins with the rest where coal is loaded into coal hoppers so all can be used together. I presume it brings coal to the building and possibly onto conveyor belts in the building and from there to the wagons.

Here's another photo of what I making.
Attachment:
Killingworth Collerie 1903_02.png
Killingworth Collerie 1903_02.png [ 66.49 KiB | Viewed 226 times ]

Like to have a go making a second one of the Glebe Pit.
Attachment:
Glebe Pit.png
Glebe Pit.png [ 46.45 KiB | Viewed 226 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:03 am 
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GarryG wrote:
mb wrote:
What you have there (see photo) is a "mine shaft tower", not a "coal loader

I don't mind people pointing things out as often get some good ideas from them. 2cc's are welcome.

I put the mine shaft tower in the non-track tiles [...]

You forgot the main part of my quote:

mb wrote:
And it would be part of a mine, not of a station

What I liked to point out is that a mine shaft tower is part of an industry, and hence should be part of an industry set in game. It is not part of a station and hence shouldn´t be part of a station set. We´re trying hard to put things in their proper sets and to not mix them without good reason, just to avoid confusion and collisions.

If you feel a need for some loading installation as part of a station set, you should include fitting equipment for it. E.g., some cranes, belt conveyors, etc. But not something which is clearly out of place in the given context. Just 2cc more.

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:04 pm 
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michael blunck wrote:
You forgot the main part of my quote:


Knew what you meant .. just I no good at answering it clearer.

michael blunck wrote:
If you feel a need for some loading installation as part of a station set, you should include fitting equipment for it. E.g., some cranes, belt conveyors, etc.


Will have a look into that idea. See what will look good and also look like it connected to the Coal Mines.

Cheers pal

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AuzObjects: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74510
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:16 pm 
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GarryG wrote:
I put the mine shaft tower in the non-track tiles so it joins with the rest where coal is loaded into coal hoppers so all can be used together. I presume it brings coal to the building and possibly onto conveyor belts in the building and from there to the wagons.


I think it looks OK as part of the station. Trying to integrate it into an industry and then trying to get the industry to integrate w/ the station (especially if you're not using both) would just look weird, IMO. It would improve the look of non-FIRS mining industries.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:40 pm 
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GarryG wrote:
Nondidjos wrote:
Oh my! these all look so great!


Thanks pal, hehe they not suppose to be shadows under the Coal Loader but spilt coal.

But I over did it so changed them a bit.

This is where I up to with the Coal Loader so far.
Coal Loader.png

Be a few days now before can do any more.

Compare it with photo previous page/

Cheers


Really nice, looking forward to play with these new ones :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:04 pm 
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kamnet wrote:
GarryG wrote:
I put the mine shaft tower in the non-track tiles so it joins with the rest where coal is loaded into coal hoppers so all can be used together. I presume it brings coal to the building and possibly onto conveyor belts in the building and from there to the wagons.


I think it looks OK as part of the station. Trying to integrate it into an industry and then trying to get the industry to integrate w/ the station (especially if you're not using both) would just look weird, IMO. It would improve the look of non-FIRS mining industries.


I totally agree with Kamnet.
Furthermore I dont see anything wrong with (the same looking) graphics being available in multiple ways, so as Industry, Object and/or Station.
But others may disagree, however as a player you still have the choice to not use them and I think having that choice is still better then limiting the creativity a GRF-developer by saying that certain graphics should only be available in certain "proper" sets...
So, in short, dont like it? Dont use it..



On-topic:

I think the building is placed incorrectly on the tile. It is now at the closest edge of the tile, while the tower is in the middle. It looks to me that in the original graphics the tower probably also reaches the ground at the closest edge of the tile.
As in this case the tower is in the middle, I think the the "mouth"/opening of the building should also be in the center of the tile...

What I do agree with with Michael is that to me also the tower looks more like a Mine shaft tower rather than some sort of loader, because of its height.
If you move it more to the right (so closer to the building) and then lower it, you will still keep the same angle for the conveyor-belt, but it will look less like a mineshaft tower and it will look more like the "real" thing.
Looking at one of the pictures you posted, you can see that the hight of the tower above the roof is roughly the same (or even a bitt less) hight as the structure under it, right now its a lot higher than the structure under it.
See this picture, the green arrow is shorter than the red one:
Attachment:
Example356.png
Example356.png [ 282.09 KiB | Viewed 185 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Quast65 wrote:
What I do agree with with Michael is that to me also the tower looks more like a Mine shaft tower rather than some sort of loader, because of its height.

It IS a mine shaft tower. It has nothing to do with loading trains (the photo depicts a collerie). That´s what I´m talking about.

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:54 pm 
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michael blunck wrote:
Quast65 wrote:
What I do agree with with Michael is that to me also the tower looks more like a Mine shaft tower rather than some sort of loader, because of its height.

It IS a mine shaft tower. It has nothing to do with loading trains (the photo depicts a collerie). That´s what I´m talking about.

regards
Michael

I may misunderstand you, but I still dont see the issue.
What is wrong with coding structures that are not directly used for loading trains as stations?
Almost every station-set has buildings/structures that are not directly used for loading trains as extra eyecandy (and the benefit of enlarging the catchment area of the station).

What I see here is an attempt of putting a very nice historical industrial looking site (including its loading facilities and surrounding buildings that may have nothing to do with loading trains, but complete the site) into the game, in this case offered as station-tiles.
It may need some work to make it look more accurate, but it is still in development, so thats ok. Pointers/suggestions to making it look more accurate will probably be appreciated.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Quast65 wrote:
I may misunderstand you, but I still dont see the issue.
What is wrong with coding structures that are not directly used for loading trains as stations?

I think you´re misinterpreting the photo as a "coal loader". What can be seen on that photo is not a "coal loader", but it is the mine shaft tower of the collerie being shown.

A "coal loader" (i.e., a (large) system used for loading coal wagons) would look quite different than a mine shaft tower. And btw, coal loading here is done in the shed on the left.

Just my 2cc, o/c you may draw and code what you like, and also give it names as you please.

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:24 pm 
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michael blunck wrote:
Quast65 wrote:
I may misunderstand you, but I still dont see the issue.
What is wrong with coding structures that are not directly used for loading trains as stations?

I think you´re misinterpreting the photo as a "coal loader". What can be seen on that photo is not a "coal loader", but it is the mine shaft tower of the collerie being shown.

A "coal loader" (i.e., a (large) system used for loading coal wagons) would look quite different than a mine shaft tower. And btw, coal loading here is done in the shed on the left.

Just my 2cc, o/c you may draw and code what you like, and also give it names as you please.

regards
Michael


If it is a mineshaft tower, then I can see what you're getting at. The building is concealing what is an elevator for coal, not a loading chute. The trains would have either been loaded by hand, or there is a coal loader but there is also a mineshaft tower to get it up there.

Here's my take: The tower, in this case, specifically exists because of the station (or the station was built there because the vertical mineshaft was already there). Make the building a proper mineshaft tower and find out if there was an automatic coal loader or they loaded it by hand. Either way, the shaft is still part of the station because they co-exist and require each other. The only issue is giving better graphics and the right name.

As with everyone else, 2 cents from what little I know about mining and using logic to figure out what you're talking about.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 pm 
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SimYouLater wrote:
If it is a mineshaft tower, then I can see what you're getting at.

It is. You can clearly see the hoist house on the right and the cables (and what do you think that chimney is for?)

SimYouLater wrote:
The tower, in this case, specifically exists because of the station (or the station was built there because the vertical mineshaft was already there)

The tower is there because every shaft mine needs one


BTW, a "coal loader" (even in NSW) is something like this -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coal ... castle.jpg.

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:14 am 
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Thanks fellas for all the feedback. It all appreciated.

Looking back through history: "In 1905 Richard Sutcliffe invented the first conveyor belts for use in coal mines which revolutionized the mining industry." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conveyor_belt for more information.

The photo I been making my design from is dated 16 October 1903. Conveyor belts was not invented at this time.

Anyway:

My intentions with this is to proved the pieces separately and that way players can use it how they wish.

The Coal Loading Facilities for loading coal trains.
Attachment:
Coal Loading Facilities.png
Coal Loading Facilities.png [ 14.23 KiB | Viewed 117 times ]

They will have at least 4 parts so they can be joined and made what ever length you wish and to what ever design you wish.

The Mine Shaft Tower section will be a separate piece.
Attachment:
Mine Shaft Tower.png
Mine Shaft Tower.png [ 11.54 KiB | Viewed 117 times ]

You can choose if you wish to add this or not.


Thanks Quast65 for finding the problem with the tower .. I should learn how to count and counted the posts :) .. if I move it to edge of tile this will make a difference .. don't know why I never thought of that. :shock:

The hard part designing this is the railway sidings in the photo are close together, where in game the tracks are further apart, so make it a bit difficult making it to scale.

Cheers all

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Been making a few adjustments to the Coal Loader and Mine Shaft Tower.

Doing what Quast65 mentioned and moved the tower and lowed it a bit.
Attachment:
Mine Shaft Tower 2.png
Mine Shaft Tower 2.png [ 9.93 KiB | Viewed 86 times ]

This will be a separate piece to the Coal Loader so players can choose if they wish to use it.

I hoping if this was built next to a Industry Coal Mine that it could look ok.

I found some more photos of this Coal Mine .. so I hope eventually make my own Coal Mine to go with my Industry set to match what I doing here.

In 1910 there was a mine explosion.
Attachment:
Killingworth Colliery Mine explosion 7 December 1910.png
Killingworth Colliery Mine explosion 7 December 1910.png [ 127.36 KiB | Viewed 86 times ]

Lucky no one was in the mine at the time except a horse.

The 40 tons of unrecognisable iron, cages, twisted steel, skips, and thousands of feet of steel cable has been lifted bodily from the bottom of the pit and hurled with terrific violence into the top of this framework.

If like to read full story about this go to http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15200876

The Coal Loaders I will be re-building them and make them a bit narrower.

Cheers all

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Looks great!!! :bow:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Those roof textures are awesome. Great job :)


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