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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:15 pm 
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michael blunck wrote:
Darthrafael wrote:
Those tracks look amazing! Are they finescale tracks or 'normal' tracks?

Yes, they are smaller than original TTD tracks.

Darthrafael wrote:
Oh, and will they have a setting that makes them also act like narrow gauge like Pikka's Finescale tracks?

Sorry, how do Pikka´s tracks "act like narrow gauge"?

regards
Michael


Pikka's Finescale Tracks GRF has a parameter that allows the tracks to also allow Narrow Gauge trains to use them (like the trains from Japanset), eliminating the need for a GRF that adds Narrow Gauge tracks for them since the 'default' tracks also allow Narrow Gauge tracks to use them, so you can basically run both Standard Gauge and Narrow Gauge trains on the same tracks.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:21 pm 
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ATM, DBRails has no extra graphics for NG tracks, since the DB Set doesn´t include NG vehicles. In consequence, NG vehicles from foreign train sets will be allowed to run on DBRails´ SG tracks. As an alternative, I could also include a set of NG tracks into DBRails, just to be sure.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Comm Cody wrote:
NekoMaster wrote:
theres a DBRail Set? like a railtype GRF? Or are you refering to the DBSetXL Trainset?


It's coming SoonTM when DB Set 0.90 comes out along with Half-Life 3 and Road Types in trunk.


:P

I wager that the DBRail set Michael speaks of will come when it does.


michael blunck wrote:
ATM, DBRails has no extra graphics for NG tracks, since the DB Set doesn´t include NG vehicles. In consequence, NG vehicles from foreign train sets will be allowed to run on DBRails´ SG tracks. As an alternative, I could also include a set of NG tracks into DBRails, just to be sure.

regards
Michael


While Michael's licenses are annoying, in this case it's worth it. Even though it took him 7 years (2005-2012) to update NewStations once (according to Wayback Machine and a very old NewGRF file I archived for some reason), it included support for tracktypes and a bunch of other stuff.

He's definitely a perfectionist, and the only person I would trust to never abuse the restrictive license he chose. I honestly think Michael wouldn't halt development due to boredom or drifting away (which would leave everyone out in the cold) because of his attention to detail.

Not going to say it can be expected, but you might be able to look forward to NG tracks with the new tracktypes... eventually. ;)

michael blunck wrote:
Darthrafael wrote:
Those tracks look amazing! Are they finescale tracks or 'normal' tracks?

Yes, they are smaller than original TTD tracks.

regards
Michael


May I ask how much? The DBRails seem larger than Finescale, but maybe it's just me.

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Last edited by SimYouLater on Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:40 pm 
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SimYouLater wrote:

Not going to say it can be expected, but you might be able to look forward to NG tracks with the new tracktypes... eventually. ;)


While NG Tracks are certain to be fancy, I personally prefer the same system that Pikka's Finescale Tracks have, but that's probably just a matter of taste. (Because I like having all my trains use the same track instead of having to separate my fancy Japanese trains from my fancy British, German and American trains)

SimYouLater wrote:
michael blunck wrote:
Darthrafael wrote:
Those tracks look amazing! Are they finescale tracks or 'normal' tracks?

Yes, they are smaller than original TTD tracks.

regards
Michael


May I ask how much? The DBRails seem larger than Finescale, but maybe it's just me.


Ah, yea, they do look a bit wider now that you mention it. At least, they look wider on the in-game screenshots than in the buildmenu screenshots. Some clarification on just how much smaller they are than normal tracks would be nice.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:24 pm 
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SimYouLater wrote:
I honestly think Michael wouldn't halt development due to boredom or drifting away (which would leave everyone out in the cold) because of his attention to detail. [...]

Thanks for your polite words.

SimYouLater wrote:
Not going to say it can be expected, but you might be able to look forward to NG tracks with the new tracktypes... eventually.

Maybe. I had many discussions with Snail about including NG track in DBRails, or rather have it as a standalone or as a different set. Still, not sure about it. The main reason to not include it was that DBXL doesn´t offer any NG vehicles (this would have been an even larger task than modelling German SG trains, not to mention that it wouldn´t have been covered by "a DB Set").

SimYouLater wrote:
[track dimensions] May I ask how much? The DBRails seem larger than Finescale, but maybe it's just me.

I´ve seen a lot of screenshots from different "finescale track" sets, so I´m not sure which one you´re referencing here. DBRails SG tracks are "6px wide" (see below).

Darthrafael wrote:
Ah, yea, they do look a bit wider now that you mention it. At least, they look wider on the in-game screenshots than in the buildmenu screenshots. Some clarification on just how much smaller they are than normal tracks would be nice.

The graphics in the build menu only use symbolic representations, they don´t show the real track graphics. DBRails SG tracks are "6px wide", see pic (BG = broad gauge, original TTD track dimensions; SG = standard gauge (DBRails now 6px instead of 7); FB = Feldbahn/Decauville) from an earlier discussion somewhere on this forum.

Attachment:
trackscale.png
trackscale.png [ 3.12 KiB | Viewed 1273 times ]

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:45 pm 
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michael blunck wrote:
SimYouLater wrote:
I honestly think Michael wouldn't halt development due to boredom or drifting away (which would leave everyone out in the cold) because of his attention to detail. [...]

Thanks for your polite words.

No problem.

michael blunck wrote:
SimYouLater wrote:
[track dimensions] May I ask how much? The DBRails seem larger than Finescale, but maybe it's just me.

I´ve seen a lot of screenshots from different "finescale track" sets, so I´m not sure which one you´re referencing here. DBRails SG tracks are "6px wide" (see below).

Darthrafael wrote:
Ah, yea, they do look a bit wider now that you mention it. At least, they look wider on the in-game screenshots than in the buildmenu screenshots. Some clarification on just how much smaller they are than normal tracks would be nice.

The graphics in the build menu only use symbolic representations, they don´t show the real track graphics. DBRails SG tracks are "6px wide", see pic (BG = broad gauge, original TTD track dimensions; SG = standard gauge (DBRails now 6px instead of 7); FB = Feldbahn/Decauville) from an earlier discussion somewhere on this forum.

trackscale.png
regards
Michael


Definitely looking forward to it then! I tried finescale once, as the original TTD track dimensions are most definitely too wide and the UKRS2 vehicles need it, however the issue was two-fold; Pikka's finescale rails don't work with anything else except NARS2, and Pikka's finescale rails don't come in multiple speeds, etc. with no other finescale rails doing so (the loss of the finescale NuTracks is why licenses annoy me).

As a result, I use OpenTTD or original TTD graphics and track that is 9px wide at standard guage, and use a combination of NuTracks, UKRS1, Iron Horse, Early Rails, 600mm Narrow Guage, Modern Maglev Set (and the rails to go with it) and Vactrains.

That said, even if DBRails don't have multiple speeds/configurations (IIRC they do?), I would be completely willing to draw graphics from scratch for and code a track set that is also 6px=Standard Guage; from the screenshots they look better-proportioned without needing the trains to be shrunk to match.

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Used with everything else I make for OpenTTD (a prototype of blueFish, as of this writing). The graphics and base code of blueFish are not by me so keep that in mind.

You automatically have my permission to re-license graphics or code by me if needed for use in any project that is not GPL v2, on the condition that if you release any derivatives of my graphics they're automatically considered as ALSO GPL v2 (code may remain unreleased, but please do provide it) and carry this provision in GPL v2 uses.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:24 am 
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SimYouLater wrote:
That said, even if DBRails don't have multiple speeds/configurations (IIRC they do?) [...]

DBRails implements the Standardised Railtype Scheme. ATM, it supports

- SABN: Standard gauge, 80 km/h, track class 'B' (branch line), non-electrified
- SABE: Standard gauge, 100 km/h, track class 'B' (branch line), electrified
- SACN: Standard gauge, 160 km/h, track class 'C' (main line), non-electrified
- SACE: Standard gauge, 200 km/h, track class 'C' (main line), electrified
- SADE: Standard gauge, 350 km/h, track class 'D' (high-speed line), electrified

SimYouLater wrote:
I would be completely willing to draw graphics from scratch for and code a track set that is also 6px=Standard Guage; from the screenshots they look better-proportioned without needing the trains to be shrunk to match.

Problem with train sets for even finer/smaller tracks would be that vehicles wouldn´t sit properly any more on their rails, when being used together with original TTD tracks.

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:12 pm 
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An interesting turn in the discussion ... Gauges. A very simple proprietary game gained complexity with a patch which evolved into a rather complex clone. The overall result was the availability of sets designed along national lines that, being national in scope, tended to exclude the accommodation of international sets, a most remarkable modeling of real life transportation where there would seem to be as many standards as there are nations on Earth. This all begs the question ... Why should DBSet rails accommodate French or Australian or Japanese or North American or British set trains? With the rather recent introduction of rail types to OTTD, we now have the ability to match the rails to the set.

An aside on rail gauges ... The Trans-Asian Railway where "A big challenge is the differences in rail gauge across Eurasia".

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:14 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
Why should DBSet rails accommodate French or Australian or Japanese or North American or British set trains? With the rather recent introduction of rail types to OTTD, we now have the ability to match the rails to the set.


+1. IMHO, train sets should provide their own railtypes in the same grf. That is not how things have evolved so far, and I respect that some people vastly prefer separate railtype grfs. But that's my 2p / €0.02 / $0.02 (Can) :twisted: Iron Horse will provide its own rails in future (with the option to disable them).

But now we've derailed Michael's thread eh? Back on track...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:50 pm 
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andythenorth wrote:
2p / €0.02 / $0.02 $0.01 (Can) :cry:

Whatever Michael puts together, its always worth waiting for. :bow:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:08 am 
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andythenorth wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
Why should DBSet rails accommodate French or Australian or Japanese or North American or British set trains? With the rather recent introduction of rail types to OTTD, we now have the ability to match the rails to the set.


+1. IMHO, train sets should provide their own railtypes in the same grf. That is not how things have evolved so far, and I respect that some people vastly prefer separate railtype grfs. But that's my 2p / €0.02 / $0.02 (Can) :twisted: Iron Horse will provide its own rails in future (with the option to disable them).

But now we've derailed Michael's thread eh? Back on track...


I actually prefer the current status that, provided it makes sense (no maglev on normal rails like Railroad Tycoon 2 did) or you've chosen to "cheat" (universal trackktype) you can use pretty much any train with any tracktype. That way you're not restricted to using tracktypes from the trainset, and I would think that a system where included tracktypes were mandatory rather than standardized would lead to a lot of NewGRFs that only allow you to use those trains with those tracktypes because "it's not needed so I didn't bother doing it".

As for staying on topic, I've got nothing more to say about that so that conversation is best ended here.

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Used with everything else I make for OpenTTD (a prototype of blueFish, as of this writing). The graphics and base code of blueFish are not by me so keep that in mind.

You automatically have my permission to re-license graphics or code by me if needed for use in any project that is not GPL v2, on the condition that if you release any derivatives of my graphics they're automatically considered as ALSO GPL v2 (code may remain unreleased, but please do provide it) and carry this provision in GPL v2 uses.

(Note to admins: If this can't count as legal permission to re-license, let me know immediately. I really do not want my work blocked-off.)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:52 pm 
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I actually like it when individual track sets allow for other train sets to run on them even if there are no guarantees on compatibility. Though so long as people use the standard rail type label scheme like NuTracks and my North American Track Set use, then most things that are coded for that will work.

Thats not to say that the DBRail Set should be forced to work with other trainsets but for some servers its nice when multiple trainsets can be used with one single track set without having multiple different incompatible systems.

Lastly, sometimes when trying to simulate a country or railroad that doesnt have coverage yet for NewGRF's its interesting to try and cobble together stuff that looks vaguely like what one is trying ot simulate. For example I might use the Japanes Trackset or Pikka's Finescale tracks to provide standardgauge tracks to work with most train sets, but look like narrow gauge tracks like those used in Brazil and parts of Africa.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Now, that track discussions seem to be finished, NewStations freight yards got additional sprites for even more cargoes (goods, steel, wood products, containers, etc.) In parallel, there were lots of additional features in MariCo, to push seamless integration even further. With lots of animation in both sets!

Attachment:
Finnford Harbour.png
Finnford Harbour.png [ 354.4 KiB | Viewed 843 times ]

regards
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:33 am 
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Wonderful stuff mate!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:58 am 
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michael blunck wrote:
Now, that track discussions seem to be finished, NewStations freight yards got additional sprites for even more cargoes (goods, steel, wood products, containers, etc.) In parallel, there were lots of additional features in MariCo, to push seamless integration even further. With lots of animation in both sets!

Finnford Harbour.png
regards
Michael


Nice harbor. This is why I'm sticking around until I finish FicTown+ and blueFISH (at least). The former is easy, but the latter is a necessity for transport by ship.

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Licenses for my work...
All my sets will be one of two licenses and have one extra provision.

Public Domain Mark
Used with FicTownNames v0.0.7a and later. Note the PDM was chosen for unrestriction and Fair Use. If you alter FicTownNames, please include the source code but it isn't required.

GPL v2
Used with everything else I make for OpenTTD (a prototype of blueFish, as of this writing). The graphics and base code of blueFish are not by me so keep that in mind.

You automatically have my permission to re-license graphics or code by me if needed for use in any project that is not GPL v2, on the condition that if you release any derivatives of my graphics they're automatically considered as ALSO GPL v2 (code may remain unreleased, but please do provide it) and carry this provision in GPL v2 uses.

(Note to admins: If this can't count as legal permission to re-license, let me know immediately. I really do not want my work blocked-off.)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Is the last depot (with the little tower) a NewObject? Or a different track type? Or are multiple depot types now possible? Or something else entirely? ^^;


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Pyoro wrote:
Is the last depot (with the little tower) a NewObject? Or a different track type? Or are multiple depot types now possible? Or something else entirely? ^^;

No, it´s a real depot. No. No, unfortunately not.

Yes, it is something else, i.e. the parts in front (resp in the back, see screenshot) are technically "waypoints", being part of DBRails. With the advantage that you could see the trains really driving into them (through the windows). :cool:

Attachment:
Bw Falkenberg.png
Bw Falkenberg.png [ 90.38 KiB | Viewed 652 times ]

regards
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:36 pm 
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HAHA! That's smart. I actually thought about that the other day since I had been working on the waypoint set, maybe using a building. Great job!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:12 am 
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michael blunck wrote:
the parts in front (resp in the back, see screenshot) are technically "waypoints", being part of DBRails. With the advantage that you could see the trains really driving into them (through the windows). :cool:


Ooohh, snazzy!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Well damn, that's a really cool idea!

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