Helpers/Bankers

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PikkaBird
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Helpers/Bankers

Post by PikkaBird » 17 May 2007 01:18

Here's a general idea of how banking locomotives could be done in TTDP or OTTD. Presumably though it would be much easier to implement if Lakie's loco-to-wagon-to-loco patch were finished first.

Okay, firstly, when you highlight a depot order in TTDP, you currently get a "service" option on the button that's usually "full load". I'd like to move the "service" option to "non-stop", and put "attach" and "detach" on the "full load" and "unload" buttons.

So we have three new Depot orders:

Go to Depot and attach helper.
Go to Depot and detach helper.
Go to Depot and help. (both "attach" and "service" buttons clicked)

Replace "help" with "bank" for British usage.

So, a train with an "attach" order will go to the depot, and attach the first available helper consist. If there are no helpers available, it will wait until one arrives (and throw out "lost" messages if it waits too long). On reaching the "detach" depot, the consists will be separated and go about their individual orders (which for the helper consist will probably be to return to the depot it originated from).

Thoughts?

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Post by Dave » 17 May 2007 01:23

I like it, Pikka, I like it.

I'm getting an "impossible" vibe from this, but that would be a really cool way of implementing it. Bankers would be crazy. Lickey 37s ftw.
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Post by michael blunck » 17 May 2007 06:38

PikaBird wrote:Here's a general idea of how banking locomotives could be done in TTDP or OTTD. [...] Thoughts?
Good ideas, but I doubt a fast implementation (s.b.). One of the most uncertain thing seems to be the needed automatic return of the helper engine.

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As I said here:

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... per#366324

"A good application would be for pushing services at grades, i.e. there would be depots on the bottom and at the summit of a grade and a helper engine which would be added to / removed from normal trains at these depots (automagically or by schedule)."

I.e.

The engine of the normal train (N) would have a schedule like this:

A-town
Depot A (maintenance)
Depot B (maintenance)
B-town

and the helper engine (H) would have a schedule like this:

Depot A (maintenance)
Depot B (maintenance)

Now, whenever a train N enters depot A and another single engine H will be found there with (maintenance) for depot A in its schedule, this engine would be added to train N which will proceed then to depot B where any additional engines would be uncoupled.

N then proceeds further to B-town whereas H returns to depot A.

If possible, some new keywords could be used in depot management, e.g., the whole thing could be evolve to:

A-town
Depot A (add helper)
Depot B (remove helper)
B-town

for T, resp. for H:

Depot A (wait)

Now what would be needed to implement something like this?

- automatic coupling of any single engine found in a depot when there´s an entry for that depot in T´s schedule like "maintenance" or "link helper", etc and that single engine also has an entry for that depot in its schedule. (o/c, ATM there´s only one schedule for a consist, but ...)

- automatic decoupling of any extra engine which has an extra entry for that depot in its schedule (o/c, see above ...)

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Post by PikkaBird » 17 May 2007 06:49

michael blunck wrote:Good ideas, but I doubt a fast implementation (s.b.). One of the most uncertain thing seems to be the needed automatic return of the helper engine.
I don't see why that's a problem: the decoupled helper consist (not necessarily just one locomotive) will just follow its orders to return to the original depot. If there's no way for it to get back, or if it has different orders, that's the player's problem.

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Post by duffman74au » 17 May 2007 09:32

the problem of the helper returning could be solved by running a light train between the two depots

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Post by wallyweb » 17 May 2007 11:22

I've seen several discussions on this topic, including one of my own somewhere, but this is the best one to date. Way to go PikkaBird. :D

If the helper/banking engine has its own set of orders, then, logically, a "goto [depot name]" should be possible. My thoughts are that it should be made as an addition to the order list rather than automatic. One may want it to remain at the destination depot for a different service originating there.

I have some interesting thoughts on extending this feature, but I'll hang onto them until this one is a done deal. :wink:

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Post by Greno Zee » 18 May 2007 08:44

Let me perform a small mental excercise here - meaning I don't even dare to call this a suggestion 8)

Let's assume one day we get the ability to include coupling/uncoupling to the orders.
In another thread I noticed it's theoreticaly possible to attach depot functionalities to standard station - we need this one too.
Another required feature is making a car behave as a loco in the way that it constitues for a standalone train.

Now imagine this a station:
Waypoint A1 - junction - station A (with depot functionalities) - junction - waypoint A2

And a train with this order
Goto A - Uncouple
Goto A2
Goto A1
Shunt A - Couple - Load
Goto B

Shunt would have to mean: the same platform where uncoupled, ignore signal.

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Re: Helpers/Bankers

Post by wallyweb » 25 Feb 2010 20:41

Building upon Pikkabird's suggestion
Real life scenario:
A fast freight is highballing across the prairies. The engine is geared for speed but not for long grades.
The train arrives at the foot of a long grade where it stops at a siding. A powerful pusher/helper engine comes out of an adjacent siding and connects to the back of the fast freight.
The train climbs up the grade at a slower but still reasonable speed.
At the top of the grade, the train pulls up at a siding and the pusher/helper engine drops off to await a returning train, perhaps to assist with braking on the downslope trip.

TTDPatch adaptation:
The player sends the train to the depot and control+click purchases the desired pusher/helper engine
The player sends the train to the second depot and sells the pusher/helper engine.
Disadvantage: The player must monitor the train for the appropriate time to send the train to the depot.
Current Advanced Orders TTDPatch adaptation:
The player gives the train a set of Goto Depot orders, but the player must still monitor the train in order to buy/sell the pusher/helper engine.
In both these adaptations, the player can preposition a pusher/helper engine with a control+click purchase and avoid the need for repetitive buy/sell transactions, but the player must still monitor the train in order to add/drop the pusher/helper engine.

Suggestion: Add an Advanced Order function that adds/drops a prepositioned pusher/helper engine to the consist.
Some considerations:
- Articulated engines (steamer + tender) are usually treated as one item in the purchase window. Is this a concern for this suggestion?
- What if the player prepositions more than one pusher/helper engine? Can a parameter be added to specify the addition/dropping of one or more engines?
- What if a pusher/helper engine is not currently available (It's already helping another train)? Can the current train be made to await the availability of a pusher/helper engine to be dropped off by a returning train?

EDIT: Copied from http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 40#p858149 under advice to and from Lakie

EDIT Please also see the related discussion under OTTD.

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Re: Helpers/Bankers

Post by wallyweb » 07 Mar 2010 20:19

SHAMELESS BUMP

Perhaps there is some confusion as to the intentions of the suggestion.
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