Pushing the start year back further than 1921

[Hyronymus]

> That would mean Horse Transports [...]

Which was the case with the first TG demo to the displeasure of the community ...

regards
Michael

Amongst other things that caused the TG awaiters to shiver but that doesn't necessarily mean it would misfire in all transport games. I would actually like it.

[Born Acorn]

Too bad there's limited space for ships. The 19th century is ruled by barges and canals, not trains and rails!

Nonsense. Trains were spanning countries by 1850. They weren't slow either, 60mph trains with 71-ton loads by 1845. In fact the periods of "Railway-mania" and expansive track building were all in the 19th Century. The 20th century saw little mainline trackbuilding as a result.

Your statement is true of the 18th Century though.

[Snail]

engines in the latter half of 19th century were not particularly slow. they were rather weak (carriadges were not heavy) than slow as long as i know.

anyway around one week ago i started a grf which does what i said above. the population and production level at the start of the game is just good for 19th century stuffs.

That's true, there were lots of cool steamers in the second half of the XIX century that reached reasonably high speeds. Take a look at this (it's the French 210, or Crampton, capable of reaching 120 km/h in 1852).

If there's enough interest and it turns out to be possible, I'm extremely tempted to draw six-seven extra steamers from 1860 to 1910 to be added to the FRSet. I already thought about a balanced bunch of fast and powerful engines that would make the set realistically playable from, say, 1880.
What do you think? Would you guys use them? If so, I shall put them next in my production chain, I'm sure it'd be great fun to draw them

[krtaylor]

I think it would be great, if the game could be extended to use them. Of course, you would also need to have buildings and industries going back that far, or it'd look weird.

[Redirect Left]

i wonder what buildings would look like thoguht :S

[Hyronymus]

i wonder what buildings would look like thoguht :S

Go to the nearest center of a big town and have a look I'd say. In the 1850's mankind had already escaped the caveman life .

[krtaylor]

Yeah, you could have little grass huts and mud-brick houses and things.

[DanMacK]

I'd hate to resurrect a year + old thread, but I think this idea still has merit. Pikka and I have been working on the North American Renewal set, and intro dates prior to 1921, and gameplay prior to 1921 would make for an interesting and challenging game. I defintely think this is worth pursuing.

I know there are a few people who would find using steamships, sailing vessels and horse-drawn wagons very fun. I'm all about the challenge in TTD, and if you can start with a multi-million dollar coal train at the start, where's the challenge in that

Hell, we could even go back 400 years... there's a challenge for you... horses and boats only

Just my $0.02... But I definitely think it's a worthy idea to enhance gameplay. For those people that want it.

[ISA]

Hell, we could even go back 400 years... there's a challenge for you... horses and boats only

AI and we fighting with swords who gets mine!
Sounds almost like Age of Empires!

[Midland Great Western]

400 years would be an epic game, but very slow paced! I'd like to see the network by the time it reaches the year 2000, I'd have a feeling a lot of canals would exist.

[DanMacK]

Realistically I was thinking around 1860-1890 for a good start date. That gives you trains, wagons and ships to start and allows players to see the progression of transport. Plus it also adds a new challenge to the game.

[DaleStan]

Well, now that we have props 2F/1F/1A/1A, this would not be entirely impossible. However, the various sets seem to be doing quite well at filling up the available vehicle space with RL vehicles, despite the only having ~90 RL years of gameplay. Adding another 70 years to that would cause an even tighter squeeze on available ship slots, especially.

[DanMacK]

Well, with all of the callbacks and refits, it's possible to use the same hull with refits avaialble over time, effectively "upgrading" the ship and using less slots. Several eras of ships could be used on 1 ID with successive generations being better than the previous ones.

The NARS will be esigned to use some earlier slots for trains as well (currently only for OTTD, but id'd be nice to have those features in the patch too)

Horse wagons would be used for short jaunts, trains for long haul...

[Raichase]

I'm very much not a fan of the idea at all.

Perhaps 1900 would be the earliest, but otherwise the game is dragged out too much, and you only have so much space on the map as it is. If the game was longer, then you'd have less vehicles to use, and you'd fill up the map that much faster.

[wallyweb]

Perhaps 1900 would be the earliest, but otherwise the game is dragged out too much, and you only have so much space on the map as it is. If the game was longer, then you'd have less vehicles to use, and you'd fill up the map that much faster.

Good points all, but the player would retain the option of setting the start year via the ttdpatch configuration file or via the scenario editor. As for the map size and vehicle availability issues, you would be looking at a scenario similar to Europe or Japan (and possibly other regions) where the networks are quite close to maximum with little room for expansion. The longer game would mimic what is happening in those areas, an evolution from expansion into maintenance, improvements and modernization, each of which present their own challenges with ample opportunities for bad judgment and bankruptcy.

[michael blunck]

At first sight, this appears as a brilliant idea, but on a second and a third, it turns out to be not that amazing at all.

There´s a couple of reasons and I just won´t discuss them (again) in length and breadth. Only some key words: scalability and resources.

regards
Michael

[DanMacK]

Agreed Michael, but I still think having the option for those of us who are masochists and enjoy a hard game, it'd be a nice challenge

[Caelan]

I think its good to go back a little more in time. At this moment I love playing in scenarios with only steamengines. I would love to have sailing ship, Ironclads, mississippi steamboats, some horsecariages and the first automobiles too. Also canals will gain in importance (canals with boats pulled by horses even...).

I believe going back a little in time presents more oppertunity to play out the steam engine period which right now acutllay ends more or less around 1940 -1960 in most sets. That gives just about 30 years of playing with steam engines before upgrading half or the whole net for electricity.

[patter]

I believe going back a little in time presents more oppertunity to play out the steam engine period which right now acutllay ends more or less around 1940 -1960 in most sets. That gives just about 30 years of playing with steam engines before upgrading half or the whole net for electricity.

but Pikka's expansion pack for UKRS gives good steam express locos which aren't bettered until the HST in 1977

[Raichase]

1900 would be tolerable. I wouldn't really want to go back any further, as the TTD map already gets pretty full by 2000, let alone if we started in 1500 or whatever.