Pushing the start year back further than 1921

[patter]

engines in the latter half of 19th century were not particularly slow. they were rather weak (carriadges were not heavy) than slow as long as i know.

I've just been looking at some of the speed records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed ... cles#Steam)

1848 - 60 mph
1850 - 80 mph (claimed)
1854 - 81 mph
1895 - 90 mph
1904 - 100 mph

Though some of these may be running specially light trains for intended record runs.

[Dave]

I'd like to start earlier, personally. The idea of running barges up old desolate canals and having a complete network of them by 1900 seems VERY appealing and very realistic indeed.

Although, I'm not gunning for it particularly, I'd just like to see it if it was possible.

[wallyweb]

... scalability ...

I'm not sure as to the context of Michael's comments, but in a way I have to agree with him. Scalability suggests size and some of those early engines were tiny by any standard. For a comparison look at George's Model T truck ... if you can find it on the map.

... it'd be a nice challenge ...

I knew it! You draw with a microscope, don't you?

... resources ...

This suggests IDs to me. Adding 20 years to the front of the game opens up a lot of room for a lot more engines. DanMack's challenge here would be finding the right combination for sharing IDs between engines, something that is done at the moment to very good effect, but another twenty years worth? Come to think of it, all those "engine is outdated" messages would be challenging. Hmm ...

Now a question on the patch side ... just how difficult would it be to change that date? How often does "1921" appear in the code? If its just a simple matter of running a "search and replace" before compilation, then maybe it is very do-able. For those that don't want it, well ... the start date is already changeable by one's choice of editing the configuration file or, if in game, running "Cht: year [insert year here]". All that is required is for the patch to tolerate a date prior to 1921. My vote is for 1900.

[PikkaBird]

DanMack's challenge here would be finding the right combination for sharing IDs between engines, something that is done at the moment to very good effect, but another twenty years worth?

That would be my challenge too, and we've already worked it out, back to 1850 at least (although I think Dan may have drawn a grasshopper too, which we may include for the real masochists. ). TTD by default is abundant with rail and road vehicle IDs, because it has multiple generations of vehicles for every cargo, whereas new sets can have one vehicle that carries many cargos. The only IDs that are problematically limited are ships.

How often does "1921" appear in the code? If its just a simple matter of running a "search and replace" before compilation, then maybe it is very do-able.

Patchman is on record as saying that longer format dates would be "tedious, rather than difficult" to code.

My vote is for 1900.

If earlier dates are made possible, they'll probably be in the same long format as OTTD; thus, the earliest possible start date will be 1 Jan, 1 BC.

[wallyweb]

... the earliest possible start date will be 1 Jan, 1 BC.

Og: Hey Grog! What you make?
Grog: Hi Og! Me make wheel.
Og:Uh! What wheel do?
Grog:Wheel rolls.
Og:Why you call it "wheel"?
Grog:When you roll it down hill you say "Wheeee". When it hits tree at bottom you say "Hell". Formula is Wheeee + Hell = Wheel
Og:You a big geek, Grog. Don't sell your Dinosaur stock.
Grog:This big geek plan to be transport tycoon.

Wallyweb:Sorry for the O/T levity, but sometimes I just can't help myself.

[Caelan]

I'd like to start earlier, personally. The idea of running barges up old desolate canals and having a complete network of them by 1900 seems VERY appealing and very realistic indeed.

Although, I'm not gunning for it particularly, I'd just like to see it if it was possible.

How I couldn't agree more Dave...


About the ID's:
Perhaps we have to be a bit more careful in the selection of engines and coaches.

About scale:
This is and will always be a problem in TTDP, no matter the age. We just cant be much detailedin TTDP. We are just lukcy that there aren't much small details in later time periods (especially MU's). But all current steam engines have been drawn, with as much details as possible. And I remember Michael Blunk even drawing people for his stations.

About crowded networks:
Not all people play all the way from the start to 2050 nor do all players start at, say 1850, if that were possible. Eventually its all optional, you can still start at 1921 if you like or even later to prevent crowded networks. Or you start early and perhaps quit around 1970 because you are done.

About the wheel:
They had wheels around 2000 BC already, perhaps even earlier... There is even mentioning of minetrains around the year 1 bc... and of course we could have fun running aournd horse and carriages for ages before we even hit to the first engines... lol

[Dave]

The canal network thing would be a great way of incorporating ships too, but of course we are left limited. No worries - I can sit patiently

[krtaylor]

The only IDs that are problematically limited are ships.

Not really true, the airplane slots are very easy to fill up. We could make good use of another two dozen without difficulty, and that's not even adding the Soviet-bloc airliners.

[PikkaBird]

Not really true, the airplane slots are very easy to fill up.

Yes, but pushing the start date back earlier would not adversely affect aircraft as there were no aircraft before the 20th century.

[DanMacK]

Ships would probably be the most adverse affected, as there are only 11 ID's. Refitting is possible, but running costs will remain constant as they can't be changed.

Ideal would be one ID for Steamships, one for canal boats, one for sailing ships, one for hovercrafts/modern passengers, one for big passenger liners and cruise ships. This could probably be broken down into 2 generations of freighters and tankers, a small ferry and a large supertanker, and there's our 11 ID's.

Earlier start dates and slower vehicles would, in my opinion, offset the urge for larger maps

[krtaylor]

Yes, but pushing the start date back earlier would not adversely affect aircraft as there were no aircraft before the 20th century.

Ever heard of the Montgolfier brothers?

Actually, my point wasn't directly related to the pre-20th-century vehicles, I admit, I was just challenging the general statement that only ships needed more slots. No question, the ships are far worse off than the aircraft slot-wise, and as you point out, going earlier would raise the pressure on ships even more than it already is, not so much really on aircraft.

[Dave]

Ideal would be one ID for Steamships, one for canal boats, one for sailing ships, one for hovercrafts/modern passengers, one for big passenger liners and cruise ships. This could probably be broken down into 2 generations of freighters and tankers, a small ferry and a large supertanker, and there's our 11 ID's.

Lt. Gable and I were discussing this as part of his Anglo-French Ship Set once. I don't know if he ever posted about it, but that was about the split we had.