Tram and Trolleybus Discussion

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 03 Mar 2005 19:11

You've raised an interesting point though - how do systems work when there are both trams and trolleybusses in the system? Or is there even any such thing?

As I think about it, I'm not entirely clear how you'd do a system with just one wire in the center of the street. If two trolleybusses came down the street in opposite directions, wouldn't their trolley poles interfere with each other when they crossed? A normal tram system has one wire over each track, so only one tram will be using any given piece of wire at any one time, which avoids the interference problem.

Oh, and speaking of worrying about the wires being not high enough for George's big busses:

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » 03 Mar 2005 19:51

Not one wire in the street. For trams there will be 2 wires (one for each direction) and for trolleybuses 4 wires (2 for each direction) over one square. I think there are 3 sollutions:
1. Allow to build trams OR trolleybuses. In that case you'll have: tram tracks and 2 wires, or: no tracks and 4 wires. It's not complete traffic, but you could have rail OR monorail OR maglev (for example).
2. Allow to build trams AND trolleybuses. In that case you'll have: tram tracks and 2 wires (trams only), or: no tracks and 4 wires (trolleybuses only), or tram tracks and 4 wires (trams and trolleybuses). I think it's not good (trams with 2 wires...

)
3. One-way streets. I think this is the best, but if I understood good it's too complicated.
One more thing: there will be no allowed to trolleybuses to overtake trolleybuses and trams (if there will be variant with both in one street), only trucks or buses, and trams to overtake anything.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 03 Mar 2005 19:55

Well a Tram and Trollybus crossing:

http://www.g-st.ch/privat/foto/foto3527.html

A double one:

http://www.g-st.ch/privat/foto/foto3528.html

Trolly Trolly

http://www.g-st.ch/privat/foto/foto3525.html

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 03 Mar 2005 20:05

Or, we could save ourselves a great deal of complexity, and have TTD trolleybusses use only one wire over each lane, just as trams would, as I argued in the first place. I think this is logical because the scale of TTD is sufficiently small that you probably wouldn't be able to see both wires distinctly anyway. And if we drew them, of course there would have to be at least two pixels between them or they'd just look like one big fat wire (very bad) in which case the whole street would be covered with crisscrossing wires and it would look an awful mess. In LoMo you might be able to get away with this, but TTD's scale is just too small.

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » 03 Mar 2005 20:14

eis_os wrote:Well a Tram and Trollybus crossing:

http://www.g-st.ch/privat/foto/foto3527.html

A double one:

http://www.g-st.ch/privat/foto/foto3528.html

Trolly Trolly

http://www.g-st.ch/privat/foto/foto3525.html

Something like that?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 03 Mar 2005 21:57

As I said earlier, the only thing that I could do would be one system...

But first the drive thru stations.

Well here is my current todo/bug list:
Fix Overtaking bug, urgent -> TTD Crashes, no clue why ...
Test both traffic sides
Check why other companies road vehicle sometimes get stuck, maybe overtaking?
Fix Display in in Bus Station Orientation Window

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 03 Mar 2005 22:03

Let's do trams on tracks first. Maybe if that's popular, then later we could add trolleybusses without tracks. No need to bite off too much at one time.

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » 03 Mar 2005 22:37

OK, I'm looking forward to see tram tracks and to start drawing...

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 03 Mar 2005 23:33

Well, if we do find the way to add trolleybuses in the game, we could easily have one model: the Inbus U210 (already drawn by George) had a trolley version, called F140, which looked just like the bus, but with trolley poles.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 03 Mar 2005 23:43

I've already given some thought to the trams and trolleybusses which would be added to the US and Japanese sets. There are plenty to choose from.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 04 Mar 2005 00:11

Of course, that would be cool. It would be nice to eventually have different sets of road vehicles, each focusing on a region: we could have for instance US, Japan, Western Europe and Eastern Europe sets.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 04 Mar 2005 01:50

I kind of hope that someday George's sets evolve in that direction. It's kind of hard because road vehicles tend to get exported more. With trains and trams, not so much so, and so national and regional sets are a little more unique.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 04 Mar 2005 08:39

First the internal infrastructure has to be made, as I said earlier I can't guarantee if a patch I have in mind will work after all. I am currently unsure if I can even get the stations work correctly... very odd things happen

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » 04 Mar 2005 13:49

We're all waiting for good news...

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 04 Mar 2005 21:40

For the first screenshot of a Busstop look at the General TTDPatch Section ...

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » 04 Mar 2005 22:56

IT LOOKS GREAT!!!!!!

Would you add here link to that topic?
One little proposition: add bus stop sign and/or shelter (or how to say that in English?).

eis_os wrote:I have splitted the topic...

I changed topic name, I hope this name is more connected with theme.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 05 Mar 2005 08:53

As I said, the bus stops need to use only TTD Sprites, discussion about the look & feel of Bus Stops please in this topic:

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=13809

Here people can discuss the Trolly/Tram stuff...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 22 Mar 2005 17:23

In another thread, concerning trams:

eis_os wrote:I said it won't work because the rv reverse code will not work and a solution has to be found. Anyway the busstops have some bugs aswell I can't fix because I have no solution.

Can you go into more detail? What's wrong with the RV reverse code? FWIO, you would
a.) disable the manual reverse mechanism. This is known how to be done, for a while the PBS code did it.
b.) disable the passing-stopped-vehicles ability, for trams. This should be possible too because vehicles can't always pass anyway, e.g. not in tunnels or on curves.
c.) have trams reverse at the end of the line. This is exactly the same as current RV behavior - the reverse at a road dead-end.

The only problem I can see is when there's a tram-stop that IS the end of the line, because trams (and RVs) cannot reverse while in one. Maybe that can be fixed, maybe not; if not, we just say "Don't do that, they'll get stuck." That's also the only busstop "bug" that I know about, and not a major one.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 22 Mar 2005 18:10

Simple I don't think it's doable. The Busstops aren't working fully right and vehicles simple stop infront of it. And I have no clue why. Thats it...

I don't like to be forced to do something and I don't like if somebody says I do something that was never said so.

(And now I move it to the right forum Suggestions)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 22 Mar 2005 18:21

You said you were working on it, which was true. Now you have run into an obstacle; that's OK. Maybe it rests awhile, and eventually the solution occurs to you. That's happened many times before, you are very excellent that way.

Anyway, now I understand the problem, maybe the answer will present itself to someone. I do see why that must be fixed before the trams would work usably. I need to play with the busstops more - I've used them, but not in high-traffic situations where RVs would be prone to stop wrongly. So I've never personally seen the bug.

Transport Tycoon Forums

Tram and Trolleybus Discussion

Which vehicles you prefer?

Who is online