Advantages of Simutrans over OpenTTD?

[smallfly]

Hey Simutrans-Community!

As some of you may have already read, I'm currently working on a new logistics game called "P1" (see www.p1sim.org). For that purpose I'd like to know what you think are the advantages of Simutrans over OpenTTD. I only know the latter one. But I'd like to include the good features of Simutrans into P1.

I would also be glad to know what is NOT good about Simutrans. I will collect all positive and negative aspects in the corresponding forum thread. (You dont have to register there, its enough if you post here in this thread).

Thanks for now,
=smallfly=

[Dwachs]

Just try out for your own too!

Advantages of Simutrans over Openttd:
== different graphic sizes possible (in terms how large one tile is on screen)
== more flexibility in building tunnels and elevated ways (you can have signals stations curves etc)
== underground view modes
== deterministic routing of vehicles (vehicels get not lost, which was true at least for former versions of OTTD)
== all cargo, passenger etc have destinations

Disadvantages:
== network mode (ie online multiplayer) work in progress but not ready
== no scriptable AI
== I think simutrans trades to some extent speed and memory consumption against the mentioned flexibility above (I expect for very large games that Openttd uses less memory and is faster - no measurements though)
== all the newgrf-things are way much more flexible than the data structures in simutrans

And to be honest, your project looks way too overambitious.

[smallfly]

Thanks for your help

[Drury]

I think that simutrans have worse graphics, and train switches also looks horrible (more like tram track junctions), but you can design your own airport and use more types of electrification (for high-speed trains or for slower intercity).

[smallfly]

but you can design your own airport and use more types of electrification (for high-speed trains or for slower intercity).

didnt know that. i will install the game to test it. thanks.

[prissi]

Not discouraging you, but would it not make more sense to base you game on an existing game. Especially since the graphics alone are such a big effort, a modfied version of the game would be a much more feasible task. Especially since both OpenTTD and Simutrans are open source now.

The signalling in simutrans is quite different, as all consists have predefined routes, which can be only forced to recalculate at a choose signals. Thus for many trains and ships running around, Simutrans will be faster due to this approach. Games with several thousands consists are no problem (the most I saw had 4800 of them) but this will mean less flexible routing. This is inevitably the same for any game of this type.

[smallfly]

Thanks!

Not discouraging you, but would it not make more sense to base you game on an existing game. Especially since the graphics alone are such a big effort, a modfied version of the game would be a much more feasible task. Especially since both OpenTTD and Simutrans are open source now.

Hard to explain at the moment. To explain it in a few words: Adding new graphics in P1 will be revolunary in any way you can imagine. It will be possible to design new buildings/vehicles/etc. while playing (!) because it will only take very very less time. The graphics library will grow faster than any one of an existing game.

The signalling in simutrans is quite different, as all consists have predefined routes, which can be only forced to recalculate at a choose signals. Thus for many trains and ships running around, Simutrans will be faster due to this approach. Games with several thousands consists are no problem (the most I saw had 4800 of them) but this will mean less flexible routing. This is inevitably the same for any game of this type.

P1 will also base on predefined routes to be able to manage the big amount of vehicles.

[CommanderZ]

Thanks!

Not discouraging you, but would it not make more sense to base you game on an existing game. Especially since the graphics alone are such a big effort, a modfied version of the game would be a much more feasible task. Especially since both OpenTTD and Simutrans are open source now.

Hard to explain at the moment. To explain it in a few words: Adding new graphics in P1 will be revolunary in any way you can imagine. It will be possible to design new buildings/vehicles/etc. while playing (!) because it will only take very very less time. The graphics library will grow faster than any one of an existing game.

The signalling in simutrans is quite different, as all consists have predefined routes, which can be only forced to recalculate at a choose signals. Thus for many trains and ships running around, Simutrans will be faster due to this approach. Games with several thousands consists are no problem (the most I saw had 4800 of them) but this will mean less flexible routing. This is inevitably the same for any game of this type.

P1 will also base on predefined routes to be able to manage the big amount of vehicles.

You will be able to paint graphics ingame?

[bigos]

Maybe like in Spore?

[smallfly]

You will be able to paint graphics ingame?

Yeah. That will be possible. You can design a new vehicle/building in game. Then a vote is started where all players have to vote "yes, enable the new object for the running game".

And even if the object is not enabled for the running game it will be uploaded to the master server and gets stored in the P1 object library.

But I dont want this thread to make advertising for P1 (my signature is made for that purpose ). I want this thread to learn something from simutrans.

[player13]

I think simutrans is a good game, but it has so many bugs. I don't play OpenTTD, but I play Loco. When I play Loco, it had crashed one time at 4 years, and simutrans is crashing at least one time per week.

[Dwachs]

I think simutrans is a good game, but it has so many bugs. [...] and simutrans is crashing at least one time per week.

.. then you are using an outdated version of Simutrans.

Any specific bug & crash report is highly appreciated:

http://forum.simutrans.com

[SUK]

I'm player of Simutrans and TTD was "game of my childhood" So few hints:

• (+) Simutrans doesn't look as "postapo" as openttd - there are a lot more industries,vehicles, building types and ground types.
• (+) Simutrans is more difficult - it has contracts between factories, so you can't transport coal from every coal mine to one coal power. Stations, factories can be overcrowded, you can increase production by electricity or transporting workers from villages around factory to factory.
• (-) Simutrans runs slower
• (-) In Simutrans, you can't buy your oponent (and if you can, i don't know about it), less "financial" functions
• (+) Ability to create own industrie chains, own vehicles. And big community, that does it.

[smallfly]

I'm player of Simutrans and TTD was "game of my childhood" So few hints:

• (+) Simutrans doesn't look as "postapo" as openttd - there are a lot more industries,vehicles, building types and ground types.
• (+) Simutrans is more difficult - it has contracts between factories, so you can't transport coal from every coal mine to one coal power. Stations, factories can be overcrowded, you can increase production by electricity or transporting workers from villages around factory to factory.
• (-) Simutrans runs slower
• (-) In Simutrans, you can't buy your oponent (and if you can, i don't know about it), less "financial" functions
• (+) Ability to create own industrie chains, own vehicles. And big community, that does it.

Thanks for your input. The more advantages that are posted about simutrans, openttd, locomotion relative to its opponents, the more Im sure, that P1 will get a very very big community, since we will combine all advantages in one game.

[SUK]

By the way, I forgot two big disvantages of simutrans and one advantage:
(-)"unperpendicular" (opossite of perpendicular ) railways to grid can't go together in one tile
(-)Passengers CARE where they want go - not as TTD
(+) more "slope tools"


if you want, I can write everything (dis|ad)vantage I find - I'm programmer and I often look at games as programmer not as gamer.

[CommanderZ]

(-)Passengers CARE where they want go - not as TTD

This is a negative feature?

I though cargo destinations/distribution was one of the most widely anticipated features for future versions of OTTD

[smallfly]

Thanks for now. Ive written down all your point to the corresponding forum thread:

http://www.p1sim.freeforums.org/learnin ... 1-t41.html

(-)"unperpendicular" (opossite of perpendicular ) railways to grid can't go together in one tile

Didnt get the point. What do you mean?

PS: I wont revisit this thread. If there is any admin/mod please close it. Thanks.

[SUK]

This is a negative feature?

Of OTTD I mistyped, sorry...

[kaze]

More custom graphics is the plus for simutrains.

It has the major disadvantage though of being very unusable though, very much contrary to TT.

[prissi]

It has the major disadvantage though of being very unusable though, very much contrary to TT.

Could you specify, what you mean? 50000 downloads a month and several CD distributions seem to disagree.

Or are you talking about nightlies? Well, those are bound to be unstable from time to time.